Yikes.......$104 a Barrel !!!!!

[Bottom Line]

Anyone know about the "supposed" oil shale reserves under Colorado and Utah? Any truth to this?

 

[billandamy]

Lattes at Starbucks are $64 a gallon. Gas is only $4 a gallon.
I paid $16 a gallon for bottled water at a sporting event recently. Gas is only $4 a gallon.

Sounds lovely...

In most cases, however, the latte and bottled water are not necessities, gas (oil, fuel, etc...) more or less IS :smt001

And as far as eliminating taxes (*another post) great! How does anyone propose to pay for infrastructure? How about the war we have going on? How about if you are in favor of the war, you pay a war tax?

My plan...bring all troops home, close most military bases (they ummm...dont want us there in other countries anymore) and put our men and women to work building our country again. Everything else will follow.

 

[billandamy]

Anyone know about the "supposed" oil shale reserves under Colorado and Utah? Any truth to this?

The cost, supposedly of refining this, is too much to turn a profit. Thats all I have heard about that.

Now, as far as people wanting to start digging up yet another pristine plot of land (Alaska) for our ever growing demand on a substance that is dwindling, isnt it better to put that money into alternative sources?

Im not sure I get it. COntinue to dig up every last bit of oil that will eventually RUN OUT no matter what we do (estimates I have seen are about 150 years, even digging up Alaska and every where else) due to now India and China joining the burn. :huh:

 

[Dave S]

Well it's up to $105 a barrel today. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080306/crude_oil_080306/20080306?hub=World

But you know, what I find really surprising is where we get our crude. How many of you knew that the country that supplies us with the most crude is Canada? :wow: There are a few more surprises on the list as well.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/...ons/company_level_imports/current/import.html

 

[jg300da]

I've said all along that we should just roll up there and take Canada over. I mean really, It's not like they're gonna do anything about it. Besides, I was never comfortable with so many French speaking people so close to our border...

 

[comsnark]

Lattes at Starbucks are $64 a gallon. Gas is only $4 a gallon.
I paid $16 a gallon for bottled water at a sporting event recently. Gas is only $4 a gallon.

Those are certainly valid comparisons. Personally, I pay a bit under $1/THOUSAND GALLONS for water. And if you are paying $64/gallon for Lattes at Starbucks. . good for you. I have a boat to sell you. Personally, I will bring water from home and pay my $.001/gallon.

And I guess I was one of those "old people" who remember $1 gas. That was back in the days when the Federal government could pass a balanced budget. It was about 10 years ago when didn't have a Republican President with a Republican congress.



Why is moral courage and the ability to add so rare in politics?

 

[fc3]

There are two independent variables in the EC 101 phrase "supply and demand determine price" In short, when demand increases either supply increases or prices will increase. We're doing nothing to increase supply when vast reserves are easily at hand. Therefore, prices are increasing. While currency fluctuations and wild speculation also affect price, supply and demand are the main determinants.

Regarding alternative, simple there are none currently available. Billions are being spent to bring alternative sources of energy to the market, but they are not there yet. Solar cells are too inefficient. Even if they were 80% efficient, covering a 40 foot boat (assume less than 40*13) about 500 sq ft. or 47 sq meters with 1Kw / meter of solar radiation provides 38 KW at 80% efficieny. That a whopping 50 horsepower! About the same power as a 1980s Volkswagen Rabbit diesel, one of the most sluggish cars made. Now just up that by a factor of at least 10 and you're almost there... What else? Fuel cells? Fuel cells require rare metals, like platinum. A fuel cell that produces enough power for 200 HP costs about $75,000 and we need three. Figure an additional $225,000 for that 40' boat. That's not a one time near quarter million either. Fuel cells last only about three years. Maybe 10 on a boat with winter layup and only weekend plus vacation use. Makes replacing a pair of V8s every 1000 hours cheap in comparison. And the hydrogen to run the fuel cells isn't cheap either. Most h2 is made from natural gas, which is also going up in price. What else? Batteries? Good luck getting enough power density on board. Well, there's always wind. Anyone up for rag bagging?

BTW

I remember $1/gal gas and $1.30 on the water gas. It was 1999 when I bought Just Ducky. That was into the fifth year following The Contract with America, which made modest cuts in taxes and spending and also which everyone seemed to forget about once the assh... um bozos forced Newt out.

Best regards,
Frank

 

[billandamy]

We're doing nothing to increase supply when vast reserves are easily at hand.

Define "easily at hand" and how you dont think the continual raping of the Earth's few remaining pristine environments is okay. Or the FACT that reserves will only bring us another century or two.

Regarding alternative, simple there are none currently available. Billions are being spent to bring alternative sources of energy

There are many viable energy sources available to power our homes and businesses. The problem is big oil (with maybe a small exception by BP) has an industry to lose. It comes down to economics, not philanthropy. Using the natural processes of the earth (tides, convection, radiation, wind, solar, etc...)we have more than enough power to harness...if we actually WANT to.

Boats and cars are tougher being mobile, require a "traveling" fuel source, but even that is here and now with Hybrids, and not too far out with other sources. COmbustible engines will hopefully fall the way of the dodo within the next few decades.

One of man's greatest achievements was the combustible engine. It is also one of man's biggest mistakes.

 

[fc3]

Define "easily at hand" and how you dont think the continual raping of the Earth's few remaining pristine environments is okay. Or the FACT that reserves will only bring us another century or two.

Easily, we're already doing it in Alaska and in the Gulf of Mexico. No new technology needed. The rest of your statement is inflammatory hyperbole. We're talking about barren terrain. Noone goes there. No animals live there. Drilling only requires a small amount of space if new horizontal technology is employed as proposed. Only a century or two? Only?! Consider where technology was in 1908 vs. today or 1808. What will be available in another 100 year may make oil as obsolete as the steam engine.

There are many viable energy sources available to power our homes and businesses. The problem is big oil (with maybe a small exception by BP) has an industry to lose. It comes down to economics, not philanthropy. Using the natural processes of the earth (tides, convection, radiation, wind, solar, etc...)we have more than enough power to harness...if we actually WANT to.

Boats and cars are tougher being mobile, require a "traveling" fuel source, but even that is here and now with Hybrids, and not too far out with other sources. COmbustible engines will hopefully fall the way of the dodo within the next few decades.

Which? Please provide facts figures, costs, and analysis. Otherwise, it's just so much BS.

Best regards,
Frank C

 

[DragonAnchor]

Lattes at Starbucks are $64 a gallon. Gas is only $4 a gallon.
I paid $16 a gallon for bottled water at a sporting event recently. Gas is only $4 a gallon.

I love these anectdotal comparisons....


Latte's and Bottled water are luxury choices... there are cheaper alternatives i.e. tap water and regular coffee.... there are no cheaper alternatives to put in the tank... you either put gasoline in or it dont move.

and besides, no way I could drink 100 gallons of water in a weekend bottled or otherwise.... but the boat...

*yes I know there are alternatives to driving, but unlike water and latte, there are no direct cheaper substitues for gasoline

 

[jg300da]

Define "easily at hand" and how you dont think the continual raping of the Earth's few remaining pristine environments is okay. Or the FACT that reserves will only bring us another century or two.

Should a starving nation forego cultivating a national park because it looks good on a post card?

Certainly don't want to encourage any philisophical argument here but I have a problem with this statement. Rape is an awfully strong word. I mean, aren't we at the top of the food chain? Resources are here for our safeguard and USE. Improving and perpetuating our way of life through the use of these resources is what we do.
For better or worse, or until an alternative comes along, the internal combustion engine is the monster that has to be fed to continue that way of life.

Besides, not sure if I'll be around two centuries from now, just don't excersise like I should...

 

[billandamy]

Easily, we're already doing it in Alaska and in the Gulf of Mexico. No new technology needed. The rest of your statement is inflammatory hyperbole. We're talking about barren terrain. Noone goes there. No animals live there. Drilling only requires a small amount of space if new horizontal technology is employed as proposed. Only a century or two? Only?! Consider where technology was in 1908 vs. today or 1808. What will be available in another 100 year may make oil as obsolete as the steam engine.

Barren terrain, for now. Until we run out of oil in that space, and we move on to the next. No hyperbole, not being inflamatory, just stating the facts about man. We don't exactly stop once we go beyond barren land.
A century is being kind, by the way: http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/features/fex40615.htm

and

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5945678/

or you can just search google for "how much oil is left" ;-)

There are many viable sources that would easily work if we didnt spend so much trying to get every last drop of oil out and spent it on new energy infrastructure, but you already knew that. You can do your own homework ;-) Google is your friend.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=alternative+energy+sources&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

 

[comsnark]

I won't believe anyone is serious about energy conservation or global warming until we start talking SERIOUSLY about nuclear power.

In the U.S. 50% of electricity comes from coal. Which is horrible environmentally, even assuming CO2 is benign. You want to improve the environment AND reduce dependence on oil? Promote use of electricity and cheap means of production.

 

[ImpulseIII]

Where is Al Gore when you need him ??

 

[fc3]

There are many viable sources that would easily work if we didnt spend so much trying to get every last drop of oil out and spent it on new energy infrastructure, but you already knew that. You can do your own homework ;-) Google is your friend.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=alternative+energy+sources&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

If you can't prove your point, you have made no point. I'm not making your argument for you. It would be a futile waste of time proving your point since it's wrong.

Best regards,
Frank C.

 

[billandamy]

Should a starving nation forego cultivating a national park because it looks good on a post card?

Certainly don't want to encourage any philisophical argument here but I have a problem with this statement. Rape is an awfully strong word. I mean, aren't we at the top of the food chain? Resources are here for our safeguard and USE. Improving and perpetuating our way of life through the use of these resources is what we do.
For better or worse, or until an alternative comes along, the internal combustion engine is the monster that has to be fed to continue that way of life.

Besides, not sure if I'll be around two centuries from now, just don't excersise like I should...

You are comparing starvation (food) to consumption.

Rape is probably too strong, Ill retract that.

Just because we are "apex" species, does this mean we should be allowed to do what we want at any cost? Do you have children?

 

[billandamy]

If you can't prove your point, you have made no point. I'm not making your argument for you. It would be a futile waste of time proving your point since it's wrong.

Best regards,
Frank C.

Then I'll just be wrong ;-) I provided quite a few links in a simple google search. Read through some of them. Or not. I really dont care either way, I already know what are in the links, having discussed this topic to death on another bb more devoted to this type of discussion.

 

[osd9]

Then I'll just be wrong ;-) I provided quite a few links in a simple google search. Read through some of them. Or not. I really dont care either way, I already know what are in the links, having discussed this topic to death on another bb more devoted to this type of discussion.

And you "STILL" bought a boat???? ....with a V8:smt021

 

[billandamy]

And you "STILL" bought a boat???? ....with a V8:smt021

Unless you have any idea how to move a boat without a motor right now.

 

[widowmaker]

Does Sea Ray offer a latte machine option??