Yet another likely CO tragedy

Woody said:
Maybe they did a nice slow cruise the evening before. It's possible their cabin could have accumulated dangerous CO levels along with them already getting a does while riding in the cockpit. Now you get back to the marina, you're feeling like hitting the sack early tonite...down into the cabin you go.

I remember a posting a few years ago...boat was cocktail cruising, teenager was 'bored' and went below. They said it was approx 15min later someone else went below and the kid was already unconscious.

Everything can be working perfectly, no generators of any kind or any outside source need be involved. The main engines and lack of CO detectors can get you.
Click to expand...


perfect example of the main engines causing CO build up happened to us this past WE....we were on slow cruise to get a waste tank pump out...we did not have the genny running so we left the cabin door open for a little air flow....about 30 mins. into the cruise we heard the CO detector in the cabin go off....the 'station wagon affect' was blowing the engine exhaust CO from the rear of the boat back towards the front and into the open cabin door...we did not have any canvas installed except the bimini top so the entire cockpit was wide open....since we did not have any deck hatches or portholes open the CO built up to dangerous levels relatively quickly....

cliff
 
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CliffA said:
perfect example of the main engines causing CO build up happened to us this past WE....we were on slow cruise to get a waste tank pump out...we did not have the genny running so we left the cabin door open for a little air flow....about 30 mins. into the cruise we heard the CO detector in the cabin go off....the 'station wagon affect' was blowing the engine exhaust CO from the rear of the boat back towards the front and into the open cabin door...we did not any canvas installed except the bimini top so the entire cockpit was wide open....since we did not have any deck hatches or portholes open the CO built up to dangerous levels relatively quickly....

cliff
Click to expand...
I had that happen once with my 280DA. I feel I always been mindful of CO dangers, not just with boats. What I didn't have was a good understanding of how quickly things can happen until an incident with my lawnmower.

I think I shared that one time with CSR. In a nutshell, I was leveling my mower deck just inside the garage door on the flat floor. I was most the time laying on the floor while doing it. I didn't notice a thing until I was done and started walking to the house. I couldn't walk a straight line and my head started to pound a little. It was just a matter of a few minutes to get a major buzz. Took a few hrs for it to go away.
 
Let me preface by saying I'm an Engineer. Air Force Trained, tons of tech school, and 37 years of experience.
I spent some time as a safety inspector, and on a team of engineers that tried to keep people like you and me from getting dead using a product we designed.
It was tough.
People are clever enough to thwart all of your built in safety devices, all the carefully placed sensors, never read the warning stickers.
I get that. I really do. We are in a hurry, we want to use our new toy.
However,
When it's motors, engines, Gasoline, Diesel, Propane, etc. there is inherent danger with the fuel, and the remains of burnt fuel.
But hey, We're guys, we're supposed to know all this stuff, right?
Right.
Eventually we read warnings, etc. But nobody really ever trains us to not do things. We figure them out. Don't put both keys in the light socket, don't use pennies for fuses, don't run engines inside, don't stab your sister with the scissors.
We are taught to "Use your head". "Think about things before you act." RTFM.
Has anyone been told not to run your generator? I have seen warning labels about the Stagecoach/Station wagon Effect, but that was actually on a car (actually it was a Station Wagon, but that's another story). When you bought your boat, did the sales guy say, hey, don't run the generator, the cabin will fill with CO gas and you'll die. Nope. Because when used properly the things that we buy are designed well enough to keep us from dying. And they are, mostly. (never was sure about Clackers). But you have to maintain them, use them as designed, plan for the worst, i.e. CO detectors, checking your surroundings, daily checks, reading the manual, testing, etc.
But we're boat guys. Right? We already Know all this, Right?
Boats are complex machines. They have all the systems of a house, plus they float, and can run on DC or AC. They have powerful engines, generators, explosive batteries, onboard fuel, etc.
It takes a special kind of person to own/possess a boat. A thinker/do-er/handy man/Jack of Trades/teacher.
Once in a while, someone is going get hurt or die. It's a fact. They did something stupid (in hindsight), didn't check the system, didn't have safety equipment or it wasn't in working order, it was hot and they were tired, or their surroundings changed without them being aware. It's important that we learn from others mistakes, none of us will live long enough to make them all ourselves. It's also important that those of us who have learned, teach, in a good and proper way, those that are new, or are about to make a mistake. We need to do this without being "that guy". (just try not to be a dick, that's all.)
These forums teach, and we teach each other in the wild.

Well Rats, I can't remember my point.
Oh well, that's what happens when you're old.
Anyway,
I feel horrible for these people. They look like nice folks. That could have been me and my wife, just because sometimes things that are beyond our control happen. Or we do something stupid. Or we forget....


With that in mind, please be safe this 4th of July.
Come back here and teach and share.
Contrary to what I might say in jest, or what you might think, You would be missed.
Happy Birthday America!
 
DarkJester said:
Let me preface by saying I'm an Engineer. Air Force Trained, tons of tech school, and 37 years of experience.
I spent some time as a safety inspector, and on a team of engineers that tried to keep people like you and me from getting dead using a product we designed.
It was tough.
People are clever enough to thwart all of your built in safety devices, all the carefully placed sensors, never read the warning stickers.
I get that. I really do. We are in a hurry, we want to use our new toy.
However,
When it's motors, engines, Gasoline, Diesel, Propane, etc. there is inherent danger with the fuel, and the remains of burnt fuel.
But hey, We're guys, we're supposed to know all this stuff, right?
Right.
Eventually we read warnings, etc. But nobody really ever trains us to not do things. We figure them out. Don't put both keys in the light socket, don't use pennies for fuses, don't run engines inside, don't stab your sister with the scissors.
We are taught to "Use your head". "Think about things before you act." RTFM.
Has anyone been told not to run your generator? I have seen warning labels about the Stagecoach/Station wagon Effect, but that was actually on a car (actually it was a Station Wagon, but that's another story). When you bought your boat, did the sales guy say, hey, don't run the generator, the cabin will fill with CO gas and you'll die. Nope. Because when used properly the things that we buy are designed well enough to keep us from dying. And they are, mostly. (never was sure about Clackers). But you have to maintain them, use them as designed, plan for the worst, i.e. CO detectors, checking your surroundings, daily checks, reading the manual, testing, etc.
But we're boat guys. Right? We already Know all this, Right?
Boats are complex machines. They have all the systems of a house, plus they float, and can run on DC or AC. They have powerful engines, generators, explosive batteries, onboard fuel, etc.
It takes a special kind of person to own/possess a boat. A thinker/do-er/handy man/Jack of Trades/teacher.
Once in a while, someone is going get hurt or die. It's a fact. They did something stupid (in hindsight), didn't check the system, didn't have safety equipment or it wasn't in working order, it was hot and they were tired, or their surroundings changed without them being aware. It's important that we learn from others mistakes, none of us will live long enough to make them all ourselves. It's also important that those of us who have learned, teach, in a good and proper way, those that are new, or are about to make a mistake. We need to do this without being "that guy". (just try not to be a dick, that's all.)
These forums teach, and we teach each other in the wild.

Well Rats, I can't remember my point.
Oh well, that's what happens when you're old.
Anyway,
I feel horrible for these people. They look like nice folks. That could have been me and my wife, just because sometimes things that are beyond our control happen. Or we do something stupid. Or we forget....


With that in mind, please be safe this 4th of July.
Come back here and teach and share.
Contrary to what I might say in jest, or what you might think, You would be missed.
Happy Birthday America!
Click to expand...


well said....I think......;)......

cliff
 
Found another article with a little more info which points to eyewitnesses saying the generator was on.

"In a 911 call, a witness said the boat’s generator had been left on. The witness said he tried to call the couple the night before and by the following morning decided to go into the boat and shut off the generator for them.

The witness told a sheriff’s office dispatcher that he then found the couple, both on the floor inside the boat.

Another neighbor also called 911 and said the area smelled like “gas fumes.”"

https://www.portclintonnewsherald.c...eath-stoutsville-couple-found-boat/754016002/
 
We have two new CO detectors, salon and aft cabin. They go off sometimes when we are cruising. Previous owner put switches on both of them. I had boat surveyed and I was called on switches. Replaced both CO detectors and they still go off some times when we cruise. Never gone off when running the generator. Little alarm noise is better than dead.
 
Do the digital detectors indicate the percentage of CO present in the air near the detector?
Honestly I have not done the research. Present boat has no generator, but we do anchor next to folks that do.
The next boat will, dang it. And a cabin. And this time I mean it.
 
I run my genny all the time as many of my boat systems only run on ac power. I see a lot of you guys comment on having Carbon Monoxide detectors which is great. But I think just as important is to make sure of the following. Check your genny "rubber" exhaust hose and if there is any doubt of its condition, change it or have it changed. The genny exhaust needs to exit the engine room without leaks. Also, keep in mind the engine compartment should be completely sealed from the cabin. Anytime you run a wire or have someone doing work on your vessel, make sure any penetrations between the engine room and cabin area are properly sealed. Just my 2 cents.......
Happy 4th and be safe.......
 
DarkJester said:
Do the digital detectors indicate the percentage of CO present in the air near the detector?
Click to expand...

Typically they show a readout in “parts per million” or “ppm”

If you are in a small apartment and you’re cooking with a gas oven (or using it for heat), it’s common to see 30-40 ppm after a few hours.

While this won’t cause any immediate problems, a long term exposure to this level can give you a headache.

An exhaust leak from a generator could easily create an atmosphere with CO several hundred or thousand ppm.

A short term exposure to such high levels can render you immobile after 2-3 breaths, followed by unconsciousness.
 
Last edited:
DarkJester said:
Let me preface by saying I'm an Engineer. Air Force Trained, tons of tech school, and 37 years of experience.
I spent some time as a safety inspector, and on a team of engineers that tried to keep people like you and me from getting dead using a product we designed.
It was tough.
People are clever enough to thwart all of your built in safety devices, all the carefully placed sensors, never read the warning stickers.
I get that. I really do. We are in a hurry, we want to use our new toy.
However,
When it's motors, engines, Gasoline, Diesel, Propane, etc. there is inherent danger with the fuel, and the remains of burnt fuel.
But hey, We're guys, we're supposed to know all this stuff, right?
Right.
Eventually we read warnings, etc. But nobody really ever trains us to not do things. We figure them out. Don't put both keys in the light socket, don't use pennies for fuses, don't run engines inside, don't stab your sister with the scissors.
We are taught to "Use your head". "Think about things before you act." RTFM.
Has anyone been told not to run your generator? I have seen warning labels about the Stagecoach/Station wagon Effect, but that was actually on a car (actually it was a Station Wagon, but that's another story). When you bought your boat, did the sales guy say, hey, don't run the generator, the cabin will fill with CO gas and you'll die. Nope. Because when used properly the things that we buy are designed well enough to keep us from dying. And they are, mostly. (never was sure about Clackers). But you have to maintain them, use them as designed, plan for the worst, i.e. CO detectors, checking your surroundings, daily checks, reading the manual, testing, etc.
But we're boat guys. Right? We already Know all this, Right?
Boats are complex machines. They have all the systems of a house, plus they float, and can run on DC or AC. They have powerful engines, generators, explosive batteries, onboard fuel, etc.
It takes a special kind of person to own/possess a boat. A thinker/do-er/handy man/Jack of Trades/teacher.
Once in a while, someone is going get hurt or die. It's a fact. They did something stupid (in hindsight), didn't check the system, didn't have safety equipment or it wasn't in working order, it was hot and they were tired, or their surroundings changed without them being aware. It's important that we learn from others mistakes, none of us will live long enough to make them all ourselves. It's also important that those of us who have learned, teach, in a good and proper way, those that are new, or are about to make a mistake. We need to do this without being "that guy". (just try not to be a dick, that's all.)
These forums teach, and we teach each other in the wild.

Well Rats, I can't remember my point.
Oh well, that's what happens when you're old.
Anyway,
I feel horrible for these people. They look like nice folks. That could have been me and my wife, just because sometimes things that are beyond our control happen. Or we do something stupid. Or we forget....


With that in mind, please be safe this 4th of July.
Come back here and teach and share.
Contrary to what I might say in jest, or what you might think, You would be missed.
Happy Birthday America!
Click to expand...

Very eloquent, insightful and humble reply. Love the sentiment of teaching, sharing and learning. Happy 4th.
 
CaptRonn said:
Most of these accidents are with portable generators, or poorly maintained generators. And there is usually a lack of CO detectors in the mix.

As with most things, when properly maintained and with proper safety precautions there is usually no problem.
Click to expand...

BS. A gas generator in the bilge of a boat is a much higher CO risk than a generator on the swim platform.
 
Westie said:
BS. A gas generator in the bilge of a boat is a much higher CO risk than a generator on the swim platform.
Click to expand...

Notice after "or" I wrote "poorly maintained generators". Also note I added the phrase "And there usually a lack of CO detectors in the mix".

So BS on you for jumping to a conclusion based upon your poor reading comprehension.
 
CaptRonn said:
Notice after "or" I wrote "poorly maintained generators". Also note I added the phrase "And there usually a lack of CO detectors in the mix".

So BS on you for jumping to a conclusion based upon your poor reading comprehension.
Click to expand...

no you do not understand that a portable generator on a swim platform is less of a CO risk than a generator in the bilge of a boat, even if it is well maintained. obviously you do not understand the physics and chemistry involved in what is going on. Do a complete FMEA of both systems and see what conclusion you come to.

And just as a note those 8.1 engines in your boat are a much higher risk than either of the generators.
 
Westie said:
no you do not understand that a portable generator on a swim platform is less of a CO risk than a generator in the bilge of a boat, even if it is well maintained. obviously you do not understand the physics and chemistry involved in what is going on. Do a complete FMEA of both systems and see what conclusion you come to.

And just as a note those 8.1 engines in your boat are a much higher risk than either of the generators.
Click to expand...

You need to loose the hostilities there skippy.
 
hm... i,m wondering this discussion because here in europe we think about thousand things that might go wrong during boating but not about co poisoning .

does anybody of you know anybody personally who died of co poisoning ? i strongly assume no .

any odd must be against you that such a thing happens i guess .

while co is odorless it comes not from nowhere but with exhaust fumes which you smell . when you smell exhaust fumes blowing towards you during boating , regardless if its your main engine , your installed genny or the honda on the swim platform , what boater with common sense does not respond to such situation but simply goes sleeping inside the cabin ?

i guess any statistic will confirm that from any scenario to die during boating co poisoning is the least likely . by far.

best regards
 
I have a friend whos son was killed by H2S. not CO. We trained people to use monitors and look and test before you enter an area. Same goes for a boat. Get a CO monitor and make sure it is on all the time (12 volt hard wire) and look at the situation when running an engine. If you are tied to a dock, the wind blowing towards the aft of the boat you will get vapours in the boat. A monitor is $100 a funeral is $7,000.
 
aerobat77 said:
does anybody of you know anybody personally who died of co poisoning ? i strongly assume no .
Click to expand...

My boat neighbors 3 boats to my stbd lost their son to CO. I hadn’t met him, but I know their surviving son.

The night before this couple died, they had dinner here at our marina with friends of mine. I didn’t them personally, but this seems awfully close.
 
So sad to hear of this tragic loss. Puzzling why the generator was running at the marina.

While on the point of CO gasses...

I believe our built in generator exhaust systems are designed to safely redirect gasses so as not to cause CO poisoning issues on the vessel. However, there are situations where conditions exist that negate these systems.

One case that comes to mind is anchoring where a current is present. Often a strong enough current will orientate your vessel in a its direction while the prevailing wind may be coming from the opposite direction. Possibly not enough of a breeze to change the orientation of the boat, but enough to redirect the generator's exhaust gasses into the cockpit or into an open porthole. In my area of the great lakes there is almost always a current while anchoring, so using the generator is done with strict attention of the wind direction. Also, keeping your hatches, portholes, and cabin door closed during generator use is a must along with good CO detectors.

Be safe out there!
 
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