Winterizing Oversight - Need opinions/advice

[jptl]

I need some feedback from the community – boat owners and mechanics if possible.

1995 Sea Ray 230OV 7.4l
Fresh water only, no corrosion/rust/oxidization, excellent mechanical and cosmetic condition

Here's my situation:
Last summer I bought this Sea Ray from a dealer. It was a one-owner lake boat and had been fully serviced by the dealer prior to my buying it. I used it a few times on the lake here in VA. It ran like new.In November I took it to a reputable marina for a full winterization (flush, oil change, outdrive service, fogging). I trailered the boat to the marina and left it for the winterization. The mechanic took my info. and confirmed that since I have a place on the lake, I didn’t need to store it at the marina for the winter.
The mechanic gave me a call when it was done. I went to the marina, picked up the boat, trailered it back to my lake house and parked it, lowered the out drive and covered it for winter storage.
This spring when I pulled the cover and did a preliminary check before putting the boat in the water, I saw that the bilge/engine bay was full of rainwater. The engine was submerged up to the floor level. The water level came to just below the alternator. There was some water that had gotten into the crankcase, probably through the dipstick tube at the block. I immediately checked the drain plug and saw that it was in place. It had not been removed by the mechanic.
I called him and told him the situation. He offered to take the boat back and look into the situation.
Last week I called him and he said that he’d confirmed that some water had gotten into the engine. He’d fully flushed the system and changed the oil and filter. He tested the engine and said that everything was fine. He acknowledged that the plug should have been pulled as part of winterization and said that he’d eat the cost of the oil/filter change. Even though he tested the starter and confirmed it to be working, he expressed concern about the condition of starter, as it had been submerged for at least a month over the winter.
I picked up the boat on Friday, towed it back to my lake house, put a full charge on my battery, and the starter wouldn’t kick. Nothing. No click of the solenoid….nothing.

So here’s my question in a nutshell:
What degree of responsibility does my mechanic have for leaving the plug in?
Is removing the plug by the mechanic as part of winterization a reasonable expectation?Should I be the one who has to take the hit of new starter replacement, or is it reasonable to expect him to replace the starter at his cost?..or to what degree should he be responsible for the starter failure? Labor only?
My family came down to the lake for a weekend of boating over Memorial Day weekend, and of course we weren't able to use the boat.
I’m not thrilled with what happened, but I’m trying to keep my emotion out of this. I like this mechanic. Mistakes happen, and from what I can tell up to this point, he’s taken responsibility for leaving the plug in.
Everyone I've spoken to seems to have an opinion on this, but I want to be fair, unbiased and unemotional.
I want to discuss this with him and do what’s fair for him and for me.
Opinions please.
Thanks!

 

[ZZ13]

The very first thing I do whenever I pull the boat out of the water is pull out the plug. I think the plug state is beyond a winterization task and is more of the responsibility of the owner in everyday use of the boat. Kinda like make sure you have your tow safety chains on and transom straps on. However, did you have the plug out when you took it to him for winterization? You could make a case that he should not have put it back in if you had it out. Otherwise, I think it is your responsibility to make sure the plug is out when it should be. That's my honest assessment.

 

[dpmulvey]

I'd say his as a matter of job completion and customer service. He knew the conditions of storage regardless of location. However, once you took possession, I would say your responsibility. It's a shame when you have to check behind an alleged professional.

Merely my opinion.

Part 2. If he expressed a concern over the starter..... Why? And how did he warm the oil to change it? Did he try to kick it over and got nothing? Something isn't right.

 

[Bt Doctur]

Its the owners responsibility., Unless its been spelled out, all that the mechanic did was winterize the motor , not the boat
Lets turn it around, the mechanic removes the plug for whatever reason (clean the bilge) you take possession and just launch it and it sinks. You." the owner" should have checked to make sure all systems were go. Owners fault all the way.

 

[NorCal Boater]

You can get a new starter on eBay for somewhere between $75-150. Pretty cheap lesson learned.

Buy the starter and put it in. Its a pretty easy job. I would move on past this and stop letting it bug you....if it is....and enjoy your boat and the summer.

 

[mygirl]

At $100 plus an hour I feel the mechanic should have the plug removed. It's common sense. At my marina all the plugs are removed prior to storage. I never had to ask specifically to remove it. Since your starter is now bad I would ask the mechanic to replace it due to his oversight. He knows he screwed up by telling you there is a starter concern and giving you a free oil change. If he wasn't at fault then why offer a free anything? If he gives you static then ask him to do the labor on the starter and buy one on eBay. The mechanic has responsibility here.

 

[BOATER JOHN]

I have to go along with Scott and Bt Doctur on this

 

[RollerCoastr]

I think the mechanic is making a good faith gesture, and I'd be thankful for that. I'm sure they regret not pulling the plug, but the only way they'd be responsible would be if THEY stored the boat. That's not really a grey area IMO.

 

[Jimmy Buoy]

I don't believe that the mechanic is at fault here since the boat was not being stored at his premises. He would not know where the boat is going to be stored. For example, mine is stored indoor heated, but some still winterize their boats as a precaution - most do not remove their drain plugs since there is no chance of rain water accumulating. I don't winterize nor do I remove my plug, but I do check in the spring to ensure that the plug is still in and that the boat's systems have not leaked into the bilge during storage prior to launch. When I did store a boat outside I always removed the plug as the boat was hauled out of the water. Never did I expect the mechanic to remove the plug.

As far as the mechanic "revealing" that he is at fault by doing an oil change - I disagree. Some people actually feel empathy towards their customer's unfortunate situations and try to do something within their power as an act of goodwill. I'd take it as a sign that this is a standup type person and I would not try to repay his kindness as weakness.

You have to expect making a few mistakes along the way in life. My take on this is to learn from them, get over them, and don't look back.

 

[Westie]

Quite simply it's your boat, its your responsibility. You stored it with a cover that leaked and allowed rain water to get in. The mechanic had no control over how it was stored.

 

[Craigalan]

Im going with Owner oversight on this one. When I get the boat from the mechanic who winterized, my first question is always "where is the plug." If he pulled it or not, Im always double checking those foundational type things before the big sleep. Yes, a bummer. But, a good lesson to be examined here.


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[Steve500dancer]

I think that both of you are at fault to some degree. I would say that to be fair, you pay for the starter and the mechanic installs it free of charge. That way you both have some skin in the game. He should have checked and you should have double checked.

Steve

 

[Getaway]

You screwed up. Stuff like this should be on your checklist for winter layup. Live and learn and be thankful that is all that happened. Throw a new starter on it and move on.

It's a totally different story if you would have dropped the boat off to him and told him to take care of it until you return in the spring. If that was the case, then he would have been responsible.

 

[MExcelsior]

Quite simply it's your boat, its your responsibility. You stored it with a cover that leaked and allowed rain water to get in. The mechanic had no control over how it was stored.

I agree with Westie here. It really isn't a question of the plug here, it is a question of why the owner stored the boat with a cover that allows rain water to collect in the boat. That being said, VA probably has rain, snow, freezing and thawing (multiple times) over the course of a winter. Water getting into the boat in these conditions will literally rip a boat apart slowly at the seams.

That being said, the only way the mechanic would be at some fault is if he drained the engines into the bilge during the winterization process and forgot to take plug out to drain the bilge. Even then, he would only be at fault proportionally to the amount of rain water vs. drain from engine water.

If outside during winter storage, I'm a big believer in shrink wrapping.

 

[dpmulvey]

I agree with Westie here. It really isn't a question of the plug here, it is a question of why the owner stored the boat with a cover that allows rain water to collect in the boat. That being said, VA probably has rain, snow, freezing and thawing (multiple times) over the course of a winter. Water getting into the boat in these conditions will literally rip a boat apart slowly at the seams.

That being said, the only way the mechanic would be at some fault is if he drained the engines into the bilge during the winterization process and forgot to take plug out to drain the bilge. Even then, he would only be at fault proportionally to the amount of rain water vs. drain from engine water.

If outside during winter storage, I'm a big believer in shrink wrapping.

Not in the OP defense, but merely a statement of fact...... I've only been in VA since 1991. This past winter was the worst I've experienced to include an ice storm in the mid 90's that wiped out central VA over the Christmas season for days if not weeks depending on where you were. My SO is a teacher. IIRC, the kids lost 11 - 14 days of school due to storms. Unheard of in this area.

Should the plug have been removed? Yes? Maybe.... Might have been a blessing in disguise given this winter's weather. The slight warming in the daytime followed by drastic cooling at night could have very well caused an ice dam in the drain hole. Not saying it would have happened, but the possibility exists that if the plug was out, the transom could have been compromised. I'll take a bad starter any day over that.

 

[Mike Blake]

You can get a new starter on eBay for somewhere between $75-150. Pretty cheap lesson learned.

Buy the starter and put it in. Its a pretty easy job. I would move on past this and stop letting it bug you....if it is....and enjoy your boat and the summer.

If in fact he need's a starter. Again I say do some test's before throwing money at it. I would start with the battery. Shifter in neutral?

 

[All's Well]

i see removing the plug as the owners responsibility. When I trailered I removed the plug each time I took the boat out of the water.
I'm not sure that the mechanic had any way of knowing how the boat would be stored (wrapped, under cover, indoors, etc.). I would tahank hime for doing the work that he did gratis to check the extent of the damage, he sounds like he cares about his customers.
Cheap lesson learned this time.