Winterizing Nightmare 1997 Sundancer 240

R

rdstillw

New Member
Mar 12, 2009
25
Melville, Long Island
Boat Info
Sundancer 240
Engines
350 Small Block
Hello, I been winterizing my boat which is a 1997 Sundancer with a 5.7 alpha drive for the last three years and this year things went very wrong. Usually I have my boat hauled out and put on blocks but this year because of Sandy and not being able to get my boat hauled out in time I decided to purchase a trailer so I can take her out at a moments notice. Last week I cautiously navigated through the battle scared canals to the boat ramp. She ran fine and didn't notice any problems. Currently she is sitting on the trailer in my backyard with the bow slightly tilted up.

The Problem - The following week (yesterday) I went to winterize her. I usually purchase 5 gallons of RV antifreeze and run the engine sucking up the pink stuff through the muffs. I thought I would run her on fresh water first so I turned on the hose first then tried to start the engine. She started cranking for a second then seemed to come to an abrupt mechanical halt. I thought maybe the batteries were low so I put them on the charger for a bit then tried again and the same thing happened. Tried for the third time and she did crank over two or three times then there was a crunch and now seems as I maybe stripped a starter gear because now the starter turns on without turning the engine at all.

Questions - Did I partially hydro-lock my engine by turning on the hose and pushing water through the muffs first and in turn strip the starter gear because she was hydro locked? Does the angle the boat is sitting with the bow slightly pointed up have anything that would cause something like this?

What do I do now - Is there any safe way to winterize her so I can look into this matter when it is a bit warmer out? I have read about opening the peacocks and draining the the engine block then just spray fogging oil into the carburetor, does this work? How hard is it to fix the starter gears? Do I have to pull the engine?

I'd really appreciate any advice and recommendations.
 
Possibly hydro locked... take spark plugs out, turn the engine manually and look for water to squirt out. Squirt some oil (or diesel, or WD 40) into the cylinders and turn the engine few more times. Change oil and try to start on muffs. If it starts and runs, change oil few more times and hope for the best.

Don't know about starter damage but I think I would rather strip starter gear than bend a rod.
 
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Wow, as I read your description I was thinking hydro lock too. I don't think that you can push this off because it sounds like you have a cylinder full of water. There is no way to winterized that and you will want to get it out ASAP anyway. Hopefully you have a good mechanic who is available to address this relatively quickly. Good luck & keep us posted!


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If you hydro-locked the engine, it needs to be taken care of immediately. Your engine will be junk if you don't. You need to first remove the spark plugs and see if you can crank the engine. If not, and the starter just spins without engaging, try spinning the engine a little bit manually and then try cranking the engine. If it does crank, then you chipped off a couple of teeth on the flywheel. That will require the removal of the engine.
Crank the engine until you get most of the water out of the cylinders. Dry the spark plugs and reinstall. Try starting the engine and have someone ready to turn the water on if it does start. Let it run at least a half hour to burn off any moisture. If it doesn't start, remove the plugs again, and crank over the engine again. Dry the plugs again and spray them with starter fluid. Reinstall and she should start.
Be sure to get her running before dealing with the flywheel issue. The longer she sits, the quicker rust will develop and irreversible damage will occur. Good luck
 
Definately need to pull the plugs and see if there is water in the cylinder. (95% sure there is) - Definately try and get it sorted out before winter.

What causes the water to get into the cylinder while on the muffs? Head gasket?

LK
 
Get on it fast - the previous posts have you pointed in the right direction. Change the oil too, after she's running again and has warmed up.

Good luck with it.

Dale
 
I am definitely going to pull the spark plugs and see if there's water but can I crank the engine by hand? Will I be able to see if water is in the cylinder with a flash light? Again I am a bit of a newbie any was just guessing on why the engine would come to such a halt. Not sure if is indeed hydro locked but going to check.

Have you ever heard of anyone hydro locking the engine with muffs on under simple water hose pressure? It would seem like a great design flaw if you could do that and I would have never risked such a procedure. I think that if this were possible there would be a lot more people having this issue since this is the way 95% of people winterize there engine?? I really hope this is not the case.

Does anyone know if there are teeth on starter that could strip? Would I be able to change this out fairly easily? Does anyone know of a good mechanic that could come and look at the issue? I am located in Western Suffolk county on Long Island.

How safe is it to drain the block with the pea cocks on the bottom of the engine? Is there anything else I can do to safe guard the engine if I cannot start her until spring?

Thank you for the advice.
 
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Describe the noise you hear when you try the starter.

Is it a click followed by grinding sounds like stripped gears?

A clunk followed by silence?

Or a click and then a whirring sound like the starter is spinning, just not grabbing anything?
 
You simply can't wait until spring or you will need a new motor. Spraying oil in the cylinders doesn't remove the water if it does in fact exist. Hiring a mechanic will be much cheaper. Look up Steve's Mobile Marine Service. I've heard good things but never used him.
You need to get this going ASAP if there is any chance to save the motor. The starter would not strip all the teeth. You will break off the teeth on the flywheel first. Be sure your battery is fully charged to allow the starter to engage.
The way you crank the engine by hand with the spark plugs out, put a breaker bar on the crankshaft pulley. Move it a quarter turn, then try cranking the engine with the starter
 
OK, pulled all the spark plugs and indeed there was water in two of the cylinders. Stuck a hardened bendable plastic tube down each cylinder through the spark plug hole and sucked a good 4 mouthfuls of water out of two of them...yum. The other 6 were dry. Sprayed each cylinder with WD40 especially with the ones with the water. Was able to crank the motor using a socket on the crankshaft pulley. I was surprised how easy it was with no compression. Its 9pm here..cold and raining, all worth it though if I can save her.

When I last went to start the motor all I here is a click and then a whirring sound like the starter is spinning, just not grabbing anything. This is my next issue I would assume to tackle. I haven't tried it again since I turned to crankshaft pulley with the socket. Will the engine still start even though the flywheel is missing teeth? If it does start is it bad to keep it that way?

I also removed 4 blue plugs, 2 on each side of the engine to try and drain the water inside the engine. Water came out of the two on the bottom of the riser plugs but the two on the lower portion of the engine nothing came out, just some drips. Is there a way to inject anti-freeze in there somehow? Luckily its 45°F degrees tonight and weather says should stay above freezing through this week.

Thank you so much for your help so far, I will call Steve's Mobile Marine Service tomorrow morning. I still cant believe I hydro locked the engine with the muffs and a water hose!
 
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The starter has a solenoid on it that advances the rotating shaft to engage with the flywheel.

Think of it like this. The flywheel is on the engine, attached to the crank. It spins when the engine is rotating.

The starter has a shaft that is splined on the end to mesh with the flywheel.

When you turn the key, the starter starts spinning, and at the same time the shaft pops out an inch or so to engage the flywheel. When you let go of the key, the starter shaft retracts and stops spinning.

It sounds like the solenoid on the starter is stuck. Give it a few whacks with a hammer. Don't go crazy, but you need to give it a decent tap.

There is also a possibility that the gear on the starter is stripped, or there is a flat spot on the flywheel. This is not likely, especially since you rolled the engine over by hand, but it's possible.
 
Thank you for the explanation. I will try and start her tomorrow now that I have most of the water out I think. I sucked out what I could and cranked her over couple times. Nothing seemed to be coming out of the spark plug holes anymore. Is there any other way to get water out? Should I do something else before trying to start again?
 
You could take that tubing and tape it to a shop vac hose. That would get most of what is in the cylinders.

Water may be mixed with your oil at this point as well. Pull the dipstick and see if the level looks high, or if you see any water.

I would also change the oil in the oil pan before going too much further.

You can try bumping the key on and off quickly to try to free the starter as well.

If it was my boat I would want to roll the motor over a few times with the plugs out.

Rolling over by hand ensures everything is intact. If you roll it over with the starter with the plugs out, any water that is in the cylinders will be forced out the spark plug hole.

I would take the spark plugs out, pour a teaspoon of motor oil into each cylinder through the spark plug hole ( tubing and funnel ) and get that starter working.

After the starter gets going, turn the motor over for about 10 seconds with the plugs out. This will probably make a mess in the engine compartment, but it will get the water out, and lubricate the cylinder walls that are currently rusting from water being where it doesn't belong.

Use this advice at your own risk. I'm just saying that this is what I would do.
 
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I know you are in the middle of a mess here, but I feel this needs to come up before this situation is over with.... You mentioned (twice I think), that using the water hose & muffs may have contributed to your problem. I'm betting that this is not the case & that you or your mechanic will have some investigating to do in order to pinpoint how water got into the cylinders.

On a side note, did you have any problems getting the boat onto the trailer? Any quick/hard reverse action?

Good luck with your issues. Keep us posted on the outcome.
 
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Sorry to hear of your problems.
From what I've read I agree with Cod as I think you MAY have chipped a few teeth off of the flywheel when you tried to start the engine with two hydro locked cylinders. It is also possible that the bendix ( I think) portion of the starter is broken & not engaging the starter gear into the flywheel. I have had this on previous vehicles. As was stated see if you can turn it over with the starter with the plugs out to clear all water. I would then put a little marvel mystery oil down each cylinder and turn it over to lubricate. Follow up with the oil
Assessment and change as suggested.
Since you are draining the block I am assuming that your boat is raw water cooled. I tried draining my old 260 da block a couple times as you are and had the same dribbling water issue. On mine it was just sediment that I was able to poke out with a small wooden skewer. Then the water drained.
I also winterized my boat like you did for about 20 years and never hydro locked it. I think there is something else going on there. Possibly manifold/ riser related.
If you don't have luck with the mobile service I have an excellent mechanic in Bluepoint that I can recommend if you want to trailer it there. Good luck & let us know how you make out!


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Wow you guys are good. Actually in buying a used trailer when I first attempted to get the boat on the trailer it turns out it was to big and the back rollers got pinned upward after the back of the boat past them. I had to float it off and did do a very hard reverse to get it past the back rollers while floating her. This worked in releasing the boat may have been the cause of the hydro-lock. Why does this happen? Does water get shot down the exhaust? This is a bit concerning because that means the boat was sitting for a week with water in her. When I get home tonight I will try and run the engine off the damaged starter and pull the plugs to get any remaining water out. Also I will see if there is anything clogged in the lower drain plugs.

Question - Is the teeth on the flywheel only used to mesh up with the starter gear? If indeed I did break a tooth or two will I have enough inertia to get past the broken teeth?

Looks like I'm going to put on the camper canvas on since it's going to be raining again tonight, kinda happy about that since I never used the canvas before, maybe even a small space heater until I get this thing properly fixed and winterized. You guys have been a life saver so far. Thank you again for all your help and keep it coming!
 
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You should be able to rotate past the broken tooth/teeth if there aren't too many damaged. The problem will be when you stop on the broken ones!! Keep the breaker bar/ socket combo handy!!
 
There should be "flappers" in the exhaust down tubs that prevent water back flow. You might want to check that yours are still in position and functional.
 
Can you explain in a bit more detail were these are? I'm not sure where your referring too.

Also, Does anyone know of somewhere I can get a PDF version of the motor manual for the 5.7 Mercruiser 1997?

Thank you.
 
The flappers sit on top of both sides of the "Y" pipe. The "Y" pipe is the section of the exhaust where it comes from the center of the transom up both side of the engine. On top of the "Y" pipe you will see a section of cast aluminum tube then the elbow that points to the risers. I would think you would be able to get to the flappers without removing the risers, but you might want to remove the riser for inspection.
 
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