Winter Storage – Plug In or Not?

[Alex F]

[FONT=&amp]As some of you know, I keep my boat at home during the winter months, so I have a bit more flexibility as to how I store and maintain my batteries (5 Optima blue tops). I leave them in the boat all winter, and run my "smart" charger for several hours every week, or whenever I am out there working on the boat, so they are always fully charged.

It is a common misconception that cold weather is bad for a battery - It is not. Cold weather actually slows the normal, slow, chemical reactions that degrade a battery. Cold weather combined with a discharged battery IS bad, but a discharged battery stored in warm conditions is also doomed. When discharged, the batteries, especially wet cell lead acid batteries, become sulfated. This chemical deposition on the battery plates leads to reduced battery capacity and eventual failure. The best defense against sulfation is to maintain your batteries in a fully charged state, and recognize that ALL batteries will eventually fail - it's just a question of when.

A fully charged battery is resistant to freeze damage at temperatures well below 0 F. As a battery discharges, the specific gravity of the electrolyte is reduced, and the freeze temperature increases. A fully discharged battery will freeze under normal winter conditions, as Frank indicated, and once frozen, that battery is done. Not to mention the damage that could be done if the case cracks, and the electrolyte is spilled inside your boat. On the other hand, a fully charged battery degrades chemically at a lower rate when stored in cool conditions - so, if you can keep your batteries charged, and you don't live in an area that gets REALLY cold (think arctic) then the best bet is to leave them on the boat, in the cold, fully charged.

Dale
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Excellent post, Dale.:thumbsup::smt038

What's your opinion on these two questions?

1. Does having shore power plugged to a GFI outlet on a telephone pole for the winter months qualify as a true fire hazard?
2. Why is there a concern for battery charger and batteries to have extra ware and tear if the actual load is as minimal as possible and making the charger do it's work maybe only once a week for few minutes (other times it'll just be in monitoring mode since the batteries will maintain the charge for a long time)?

 

[trit21]

1. Does having shore power plugged to a GFI outlet on a telephone pole for the winter months qualify as a true fire hazard?
2. Why is there a concern for battery charger and batteries to have extra ware and tear if the actual load is as minimal as possible and making the charger do it's work maybe only once a week for few minutes (other times it'll just be in monitoring mode since the batteries will maintain the charge for a long time)?

1. I don't see how this would create a fire hazard UNLESS the connections on the pole and your 'extension' are not well maintained. If they have rust or corrosion this will increase resistance on the connections and could cause a spark (unlikely but maybe) and this may cause a fire OR if you are drawing more current than the actual wires can handle and you burn through the insulation and catch something on fire that way. Normal use and well maintained equipment, this is not a fire hazard.

2. Extra wear and tear on batteries and charger? Don't buy that at all. But if the batteries are constantly drained then you are 'wearing out' your batteries and MAY need to be replaced sooner than if you took them home and trickle charge them. But from what you are saying, I don't really see any need to worry about wearing out a battery or charge. Hey if the battery charges does out in the winter, is was time for a new one anyway as next summer it would have crapped on you while in the water.

 

[Alex F]

1. I don't see how this would create a fire hazard UNLESS the connections on the pole and your 'extension' are not well maintained. If they have rust or corrosion this will increase resistance on the connections and could cause a spark (unlikely but maybe) and this may cause a fire OR if you are drawing more current than the actual wires can handle and you burn through the insulation and catch something on fire that way. Normal use and well maintained equipment, this is not a fire hazard...

I totally agree as my logic on this along the same lines. So if we can summarize that fire hazard might be caused by 3 primary items such as spark, poor equipment and overload. Unfortunately, I see an issue with all 3.

Spark - by looking at the pic you can see that the GFI is a basic and cheap version that is very much exposed to the weather. Heavy rain or heavy snow might very easily get there and creat a short. At home I have different outdoor covers on the outlets. The whole thing is covered even when the cord is plugged in.



Poor equipment - The GFI looks like a 5-10 y/o thing. My comfort level with it on the low side for one simple reason. When I boat was put on stands and I plugged the shore power cord with pigtail the GFI tripped. I was surpised and started troubleshooting. I did couple of tests and got to the point where I just unplugged both lines from the boat and the strangest this accured, as soon as I plugged in the line GFI wouold trip. It did it the same on both sides. Then, I took my old homemade cord that plugs in to regular outlet and then to 30amp connector on board and for some reason GFI stayed on. Preliminary conclusion, both of my shore power cords are shut, which makes no sense since they were working just fine while the boat was in a slip. I take them home and plug in to my GFI. Wala...I got juice in both lines without tripping my house GFI.

Overload - This is the obvious one. While I have no issues maintaining the load, having this open for anyone I have no idea what my neighbors will plug in over the winter.

In the event is I get a green light from my marina manager to use the outlet all winter long, perhaps the wise thing to do is just buy new GFI and more appropriate cover to keep this thing more protected from the weather.

2. Extra wear and tear on batteries and charger? Don't buy that at all. But if the batteries are constantly drained then you are 'wearing out' your batteries and MAY need to be replaced sooner than if you took them home and trickle charge them. But from what you are saying, I don't really see any need to worry about wearing out a battery or charge. Hey if the battery charges does out in the winter, is was time for a new one anyway as next summer it would have crapped on you while in the water.

I agree with you 100%. I guess if we take a scenario of all the boats from warmer climets where they're stored in water 24/7 365 days a year, there's no question about disconnecting the batteries (unless one doesn't care if the boat sinks due to not operational bilge pumps). When the boat is resting and pretty much all the breakers are off, there should be absolutely minimal draw from the batteries from equipment like radio memory, boat alarm and maybe something else that takes almost no juice. So, just b/c I store on hard I don't think it changes anything other than the fact that I have an option to just "pull the plugs" disconnect all batteries and she won't sink anyway.

 

[MasterFab]

Alex,

1 - I agree with Tom. But, there is a difference between leaving your boat plugged into a marine, twist lock high amperage plug/receptacle, at a marina where employees routinely walk the docks, and leaving it plugged into a 110 volt GFCI circuit, unattended. I'm one of those paranoid types, like Frank (lol), who doesn't take chances. So for me, I'll plug it into a GFCI outlet while I'm working on the boat each weekend, and then unplug it when I'm done. My batteries stay fully charged, and I sleep at night.

2 - I don't worry about charger wear at all. It'll live it's life, and I'll replace it when (if) it ever dies. Modern electronics are damn robust, so I don't sweat that one. Batteries, on the other hand, are on a "sliding scale" - the higher level charge they are maintained at, the longer they'll live. You have to gauge the load they are under, and balance charger time accordingly.

Here's a trivia question for everyone on this thread:

Very often, people state that batteries should not be stored on concrete. Do you believe this is true, and if so, why? (answer tomorrow, unless someone gets it sooner).

Dale

 

[MasterFab]

Alex,

Your GFCI breaker has a very small response time - in the millisecond range. If, while you are plugging in a cord, the hot and neutral legs make contact before the ground leg does, the GFCI will trip. Using another cord, possibly with a slightly longer ground prong, will eliminate the problem. Try this - make sure all the AC breakers are "off", plug in the suspect cord, then turn the breakers on. I suspect the GFCI will not trip if you do that.

Dale

 

[techmitch]

"Here's a trivia question for everyone on this thread:

Very often, people state that batteries should not be stored on concrete. Do you believe this is true, and if so, why? (answer tomorrow, unless someone gets it sooner)."

False, that was only with the old rubber batteries. I think it was because the had a minute resistance to ground.

 

[MasterFab]

Mitch,

You are on the right track, (it is false), but the explanation is a bit askew.....

Dale

 

[rcknecht]

I store my off the concrete, and thank God, because this year they would have been under water. Also, I like my bateries out of reach from children...

 

[Turtlesboat]

I think we need a spreadsheet to decide what is best.

 

[MonacoMike]

"Here's a trivia question for everyone on this thread:

Very often, people state that batteries should not be stored on concrete. Do you believe this is true, and if so, why? (answer tomorrow, unless someone gets it sooner)."

False, that was only with the old rubber batteries. I think it was because the had a minute resistance to ground.

Mitch,

You are on the right track, (it is false), but the explanation is a bit askew.....

Dale

You are correct MasterFab, it is a continuation from WOODEN cased, sealed with tar or inside glass, batteries, as damp wood will conduct electricity.

MM

 

[MonacoMike]

"Here's a trivia question for everyone on this thread:

Very often, people state that batteries should not be stored on concrete. Do you believe this is true, and if so, why? (answer tomorrow, unless someone gets it sooner)."

False, that was only with the old rubber batteries. I think it was because the had a minute resistance to ground.

Mitch,

You are on the right track, (it is false), but the explanation is a bit askew.....

Dale

Further investigation turned up that all of us are right:

"Historical Basis

You see, the myth that concrete drains batteries does have some historical basis. Many, many years ago, wooden battery cases encased a glass jar with the battery inside. Any moisture on the floor could cause the wood to swell and possibly fracture the glass, causing it to leak. Later came the introduction of the hard rubber cases, which were somewhat porous and had a high-carbon content. An electrical current could be conducted through this container if the moist concrete floor permitted the current to find an electrical ground. The wise advice of the old days to "keep batteries off concrete" has been passed down to us today, but it no longer applies because of the advanced technology of today’s batteries."

 

[MasterFab]

Wood it is!!

Actually, I was unaware of the rubber casing issue, so I learned something too. Maybe we should start a weekly trivia thread, and keep posting things like this to keep the winter moving along. Sorry to hijack the thread, Alex...

Dale

 

[Alex F]

... Maybe we should start a weekly trivia thread, and keep posting things like this to keep the winter moving along...

Great idea, Dale.

Alex,

Your GFCI breaker has a very small response time - in the millisecond range. If, while you are plugging in a cord, the hot and neutral legs make contact before the ground leg does, the GFCI will trip. Using another cord, possibly with a slightly longer ground prong, will eliminate the problem. Try this - make sure all the AC breakers are "off", plug in the suspect cord, then turn the breakers on. I suspect the GFCI will not trip if you do that.

Dale

I like the theory, but marinco pigtail has the contact the same length as any extension cord. Actually, the ground one could be even slightly longer.

 

[Woody]

I think the whole reason was that various types of battery cases of the past were simply more conductive. Storing them on concrete floors that had varying amounts of moisture sometimes combined to drain batteries.

Didn't see the last page. Nevermind :smt043

 

[trit21]

Alex, I think if I was in your shoes I would unplug, charge and disconnect batts, so you can sleep at night. To many variables with things that MAY go wrong and others involved at your dry storage to risk it, just IMO of course.

 

[Turtlesboat]

What happens when a Noreaster blows through, knocks a tree down and it hits a power line, sends a voltage spike and blows up your charger, which blows up your batteries sending molten Gel all over your ER? It could happen. I say we get back to drilling holes in your boat.

 

[Alex F]

What happens when a Noreaster blows through, knocks a tree down and it hits a power line, sends a voltage spike and blows up your charger, which blows up your batteries sending molten Gel all over your ER? It could happen. I say we get back to drilling holes in your boat.

:lol:...yeah I'll start posting about my A/C very soon. Just been very busy with tons of projects going on. I think we should have a thread "What's the biggest hole you made in your boat?", I might make it to the top ten :grin:

I guess based on most responses we can draw a conclusion that it not worth risking leaving the boat plugged in to a regular GFI unattended for extended period of time. So, unless I find a dock tower with marine rated 30amp with twist lock power source I will continue do use the same method I've used for years, which is disconnecting the batteries and the shore power and charge the batteries periodically when I'm on the boat. This of course means that if I need to power up equipment like boat alarm I'll have to use different source like dedicated battery which will have to be recharged every couple of weeks, unless I'll find better solution like solar panel that will keep the battery charged.

On more positive note I'm glad that most of us on the same page in regards to the battery charger being perfectly fine when a boat is kept plugged in (to a proper source) over winter months.

This leaves me with only one outstanding question. Considering that I'll have a dedicated battery to run a boat alarm which would be an appropriate size solar panel to do the job of keeping the battery charged and will it work being placed under the shrinkwrap?

 

[Someday Lady II]

I bought Hydro-Therapy from the original owner who stored it for the winter in an unheated building with the shore power cord plugged into a 15A receptacle. All breakers were turned off in the boat with the exception of the converter/charger. Batteries were left connected.
I am doing the same, for the second straight winter, in a building I had built on my property. No problems and I sleep like a baby.

 

[Alex F]

If my boat was stored in a building I would feel more comfortable using a GFI that's under solid cover and protected from the weather. This would minimize the "spark issue". If I had the boat by my house I'd have no problems doing it as well, but of course I would simply make one 30amp with twisted lock outlet.

Considering my current arrangement I'll just use the "better be safe than sorry" approach.