Will this Scrim-Backed Headliner be Suitable.

[Indiana]

Hi,

I am about to buy 8 meters of scrim-backed, 2mm foam-backed automotive headlliner, but would like to know first if you think it would be suitable as a cabin headliner on my SeaRay.

It will not be glued directly to the GRP, as I have already glued rolls of 3mm foam-backed insulation to the GRP (The automotive headliner will be glued to this).

I can't see a problem myself, and maybe this is a stupid question, but we learn as we go on.

Many thanks,
Indy

Photos of each attached.

 

[sbw1]

Looks like a nice neutral color and looks to be good quality. The only questions I would have is how easy will it be to install. Fabric headliners on boats need to be stretchable to eliminate wrinkles and puckering. The other issue I would wonder about is staining if you have leaks. My 1993 SR Express had a similarly colored fabric head liner that turned an ugly brown every where leaks happened. And they happened a lot. That boat was difficult to maintain as I spent a small fortune chasing leaks and was never successful in eliminating them.

 

[Indiana]

Hi sbw1,

I must admit I like this fabric (Having been given a large sample to play with), it will stretch a little and is incredibly soft, and should adhere well to the cabin ceiling and around the few corners I have with little problem.

You have raised a point that I do worry about which is leaking & staining.
Hopefully that wont happen because I have the 'closed cell (Waterproof) insulation already up, and all the seams between the rolls, and around the edges will be sealed with adhesive silicon.

The silicon will be piped out using one of those gun dispensers after which I will use a plastic card (Credit card type) to push the sealant into the gaps, then spread the rest flat to stop the silicon showing through the headliner fabric when put up.

I am now wondering if there is a 'Fabric Paint' that I can buy, and with the aid of a roller, cover the fabric in a darker colour, just in case there is a slight leak?

Regards,
Indy

 

[Soulshine]

I’d be mindful of the silicone. If it gets smeared around in places you’re glueing fabric, you’ll definitely have adhesion problems.

 

[sbw1]

Hi sbw1,

I must admit I like this fabric (Having been given a large sample to play with), it will stretch a little and is incredibly soft, and should adhere well to the cabin ceiling and around the few corners I have with little problem.

You have raised a point that I do worry about which is leaking & staining.
Hopefully that wont happen because I have the 'closed cell (Waterproof) insulation already up, and all the seams between the rolls, and around the edges will be sealed with adhesive silicon.

The silicon will be piped out using one of those gun dispensers after which I will use a plastic card (Credit card type) to push the sealant into the gaps, then spread the rest flat to stop the silicon showing through the headliner fabric when put up.

I am now wondering if there is a 'Fabric Paint' that I can buy, and with the aid of a roller, cover the fabric in a darker colour, just in case there is a slight leak?

Regards,
Indy

You may be overthinking this a bit. Soul-shine raises a good point about silicon. Probably a situation where less is more. Some one suggested watching a YouTube video, and that seems like good advice. Good luck and post some pix of the process you follow. This project will be of interest to those who own boats of that vintage.

 

[Indiana]

The adhesiveness (Is there such a word?) of the silicon is of concern which is why I have another thread on here asking that question.
What I will do is try it on a small patch ... Smear the silicon all over the insulation foam, let it dry/cure then spray adhesive on the insulation foam and headliner fabric and see if they stick firm.

I will let you know the result, and will try to post photos of my progress as I go alone with the full headliner refurb.

Thanks guys for your input,
Indy

 

[Indiana]

OK so this is where I am at the moment (See images)

1) Smeared silicon on bottom half of the foil backed 'Closed Cell' insulation foam and left it 24 hours to fully cure (You can just make it out) - Image 1

2) 24 hours later sprayed bottom half of the foil backed 'Closed Cell' insulation foam with adhesive (Over the silicon ... No noticeable) - Image 1

3) Sprayed the back (Scrim) bottom half of the Headliner with adhesive (Not noticeable) - Image 2

4) Allowed 3 minutes for adhesive to become tacky then pressed the two fabrics together. - Image 3

5) I also decided to spray some adhesive onto the front of the headliner (Bottom right) to see how easy it was to remove ... Brilliant, used some acetone on a cloth and gentle & easily wiped it off (You can see where its clean on the bottom right outer-edge ... I did leave a patch of adhesive on the headliner so you could see the difference) - Image 3

OK now I wait 24 hours to allow the adhesive to fully fix, after which I will try to separate the two fabrics.

So far so good, really impressed that I could easily remove the adhesive (With acetone) from the front of the headliner (Will try to remove the rest when fully dried)

Hope this makes sense,
Indy

 

[Indiana]

Nearly forgot ...

Here is a photo of part of the cabin ceiling as it stands at the moment with the insulation foam already up.

Next will smear silicon along/between the seams and around the edges to help prevent leaks before finally applying the headliner.

Again will upload more photos as I progress.

Indy

 

[Lazy Daze]

A thought... why not just use foil tape for the seams? This is used all the time in the HVAC world and, other than the mastic that is used, is pretty much exactly what is called for in this situation. I have the same concerns as others about the silicone - and even if it "appears" to initially stick, it may not stay stuck over time. I wouldn't chance it - especially when there's a perfectly good alternative that WILL work.

Maybe I missed this, but did you remove the hatch and reseal it? If not, definitely do that. It's an hour job and well worth it.

 

[Indiana]

Hi Lazy Daze,

Could you give me an example of a foil tape you are speaking about, as I have tried duct tape which does not stick to the foil backed foam for more than a few hours before coming lose, which is why I looked at silicon, which also has a better waterproofing ability.

I might contact 'Stixall' who make the silicon for comment.

With regard the hatches, they are fully waterproof already so I would prefer to leave them as they are and not tempt fate.
I intend to run the headliner right up to the hatch edge which protrudes down a little, and if done carefully there should be no visible gap or rough seam between the headliner & hatch.

If I end up doing it wrong I will come back and beg your forgiveness

 

[Lazy Daze]

Sure. You definitely don't want the "typical" duct tape. "Foil" tape is a different animal and is specifically designed to seal ducts (I know, the overuse of the word "duct" in the tape industry is confusing). HD and Lowes will carry foil tape (it's shiny, like tin foil) - it's a common item so it won't be hard to find.

You know your boat better than any of us, so it's obviously your call regarding resealing the hatch (which should be done every so often BEFORE it leaks). But think of it this way... it's only fully waterproof till it isn't (kinda sounds like a Yogi-ism, huh?). Then you're dealing with leaking and staining. We call it "preventative maintenance" for a reason

By the way, why the worry about making the headliner waterproof? I'm not sure I understand the need?

 

[bbwhitejr]

Here is the tape he is talking about. At HD and other stores there are severa different kinds. This Extreme Weather version may be the best.

Bennett

 

[Indiana]

Thanks guys I will have a good look at this Nashua Taped as it looks like a preferable alternative to sealant.

Indy

 

[techmitch]

Indy, gotta ask. Are you trying to seal water leaks from the inside of the cabin?

 

[Indiana]

Hi techmitch,

Not really, its just that condensation builds up between the seems sometimes, and no doubt will/does around the edges (There are no actual leaks as far as I am aware).

I just want to provide a barrier between the condensation and the final headlining to stop the condensation from eventually staining the light coloured headliner.

Indy

 

[Lazy Daze]

The condensation is not what discolors the headliner - it's the hatch leaking that does it. The leaking water interacts with the glue. The foil is going to create a vapor barrier between the underside of the deck and itself. If you did get any moisture between those two things, the moisture has nowhere to go and will likely start to create an unhealthy condition with mold growing.

Another way to look at it... from your line of thinking, you still end up with exactly the same issue. Whether the headliner is glued to the deck or glued to the foil insulation, both the deck and the foil are an impermeable surface. I really don't think you're accomplishing anything by doing that, and could end up creating more of a problem. Meaning, if the condensation between the seams that you're talking about does really happen, it's still going to happen with the foil insulation.

I'm open to listening, though - maybe there's more to this than I'm thinking? But if it was me, I think I would keep it the same way that 1,000's of other boats are without issues - headliner glued to the deck.

 

[techmitch]

"You have raised a point that I do worry about which is leaking & staining.
Hopefully that wont happen because I have the 'closed cell (Waterproof) insulation already up, and all the seams between the rolls, and around the edges will be sealed with adhesive silicon."

I was just going off what you said in post #3.^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Since you already have the head liner down now is the best time to rebed all of your rail stanchions, hatches, nav. lights and anything else that has penetrated the deck during installation to prevent any leaks in the future that will ruin all your hard work.

As for condensation in the cabin, there really shouldn't be any. if you are having problems with condensation then something, somewhere, is quite wet and surely causing mold growth and should be found and it's source repaired before you move forward with other projects.

 

[Indiana]

Hi guys,

One thing I probably should have mentioned at the start is that I live on the boat so there are times when there will be little ventilation (Overnight whilst sleeping, and when returning home to a cold boat and turning the heating on), both will cause some condensation.

I have just found a thread which discusses this topic well from two separate points of view (Sorry it's on YBW.com),
Generally what I take from the discussion is that as long as there is no gap between the closed cell foam and the GRP, condensation won't happen ... Now, the seams and around the edges, are the only places where the GRP may still be visible/naked and as such susceptible to condensation, which is why I want to fully seal those areas.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?378543-foam-backed-vinyl-stops-condensation/page2

Indy

 

[Lazy Daze]

If you've done your research and are satisfied with your decision, then I'll defer to what you're saying. I saw the foam in your pics and saw what appeared to be open air bubbles (I read what you posted about it being closed cell, but the pics looked different than what I was expecting). So, back onto your topic of seams... keep it easy and use the foil tape You should be able to use that in other areas, as well - like the edges of the insulation where it meets the hull side (if you need to).

 

[Indiana]

The headliner is open cell, but the foil backed insulation is closed cell.

Many thanks for all your help.

Indy