Why?

spfortjohn

spfortjohn

New Member
Jul 31, 2011
640
Orange Beach, AL
Boat Info
2014 219FS Keywest CC
Engines
F200 Yamaha Outboard
Why does Sea Ray not through bolt anything? First the strut holding one the floor storage lids came loose. Damn thing almost took my toe off. Now the factory flag holder is loose and the screw is stripped. Why does the cockpit drain into the bilge and not through an overboard drain? How hard would it be for a high class boat builder to through bolt items with nylock nuts. Seems like quality and attention to detail has gone downhill. As you can tell I am not happy seems like a very unskilled employee attached these items.
 
:) Every time I have tried to raise the SR quality issues - I had my hands slapped by friendly members in this forum.

But like you...

1. To many self tapping screws everywhere - the worst are in places like outdoor cabinets and door hinges/locks. They always fail and have to be replaced. I have repaired 3 other SR owners doors by now all 2006 or later models (plus my own two)

2. Yes drains into the bilge... :(

3. Electric harness - rats nest - not very well organised for later debugging. Neither my 210 Select or my 310 are nice to work on regarding electric system. And could do with some better weather sealing especially on my 210 select where everything started failing due to corrosion on "exposed connectors" - like radio connectors, speakers etc. And rats nest with connectors just hanging - not secured apart from bound together with strips. SR should take a look at some of the German boats for electrics well done. Even the cheapest German "cardboard" boats have better harnesses.

4. Electronics placement - VHF much to close to compass (<1' apart vs minimum 2 1/2' pr the manual). Heading sensor mounted VERY angled/offset around both axes. (very big no no in the SCC200 manual)

5. My GPS was (from the factory) mounted correct with two top screws - but someone pushed two self-tapping screws in the lower part (which was meant for mm machine screws) - that cost me a new C80 flush mount back panel before I could sell the old GPS.

6. Helm panel - some of the self tapping screws never had any fibreglass to hold onto - someone cut the support material off to make room for the GPS.

7. Noise prevention - has not been a SR strong point so far. A/C's, Fridges etc are good at creating a racket. But I can see later models are much more focused on low noise. But lets hope they keep the guys at the assembly line informed and educated - since a lot of the noise could have been prevented if the "line guys" knew what they should do - and what NOT to do.

As Scott - I have slowly fixed everything - apart from harnesses and helm panel. Still working on noise issues though so it can become a true holiday cruiser where we don't have to sleep topside since A/C and fridges makes more noise than me. :)

But new panel is soon on order that will be slightly larger to offset the missing fibreglass mount points. But the sad thing - almost none of the above parts would be expensive to "upgrade" from the factory. But they can be very hard and expensive to fix afterwards. Getting your fingers in to the back of the door look receptacle of a 310 is almost impossible - without my wife's tiny hands - we would never had gotten nuts on the bolts in there as you go in via the cabin light switch arrangement.

But I still love my 310 :) and the hull is excellent quality and it sails like a dream. And I guess mine was assembled on a Friday or a Monday as well. :grin:
 
Technically, Bayliner and SeaRay are owned by the same company. I still think our boats have a good quality to value ratio, however I too have experienced similar issues on both my boats.

My biggest complaints to date are:

1) Smartcraft gages 'shutting down' due to poor electrical connector (simply unplugging them and re-connecting fixes the issue, but is a PITA)
2) My mystery gremlin that blows a fuse in my engine compartment for no apparent reason, leaving me dead in the water. The first time this happened, it took me a few hours to figure out why my engine wouldn't start. Now it's only a few seconds to fix the blown fuse, but I would still like to know why this happens. I have traced the wires and just can't seem to find the root cause.
3) Terrible location of factory bildge pump, requiring arms 4' long to clean. I now have a second pump in front of the engine.
4) Ski locker needs 2nd access door. My locker is so long that I can't reach things that slide to the back.
5) Rearward opening anchor locker. All I can say here is WTF guys? How hard would it have been to design a locker hatch that opens to the side like the newer models have? I have thought about relocating the hinge to the side, but just haven't got around to it. I have had the anchor locker 'fly open' due to inexperienced help not understanding how to properly latch the hatch.
6) Canvas bag. This is my second new boat that was missing the bag for the canvas. Not a big deal, but the owners manual does state that a bag is included.
7) Steering wheel crack. I am very annoyed with this defect. The plastic is actually cracked and the clear coat finish is flaking off. I attempted to contact SeaRay several times without a response. The crack happened about a month after my factory warranty expired.
8) Engine cover (seat) needs to be one piece. This would allow better access to things. It pisses me off that I have to un-screw the bottom fiberglass (cutting the caulk) and re-install after I complete my repairs. Also, the seat has a tendancy to 'fly open' while trailering. A one piece design would hopefully eliminate this issue.
 
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I wish the bow rails had backing plates on them. I had to do a repair (below deck) when the rail saved my butt from falling overboard. I know they are not for mooring or other heavy loads but my repair exceeded factory spec.....stainless, overlapping, fender washers and nuts under there now, Mike.
 
Gotta agree with you generally on the SR quality issues. A few of my pet peeves, and this just is on a 22 footer:

1. The ridiculous "horn." Not only embarassing, but downright useless if you ever really need a sound signal in an emergency, which is dangerous. I filled and re-gel-coated the hole and installed a trumpet horn on deck. I don't think it detracts from the look. A boat is supposed to have a horn on deck.

2. The miniature 6" cleats on a boat that should be able to accomodate 1/2" line, or at least two loops of 3/8" line. I removed them, filled in the holes (now that I am by necessity skilled with fiberglass and gel coat), and put in 8" SR cleats (at about $80 each from Great Lakes Skipper, just for the cleats, plus about $20 each for SS backing plates, which had to be made since SR uses small aluminum plates, along with heavy duty nylock nuts, which had to be special ordered from Fastenal).

3. The "runabout" size gas tank for a "weekender." At 3200 RPM I use close to 9 GPH, meaning I can't go more than 2 1/2 hours in any direction without planning to refuel. That's fine if you're out water skiiing, but if you are actually "weekending" it's not much range.

4. The "porta pottie." Really? On a "weekender" made by "the" brand of boat in its class? Why was there not at least an option for a small vacu flush? I've owned the boat since 2007 and have yet to actually use the "head." My wife won't go near the thing. With a little rearranging of the FW system, the boat can easily accomodate a small vacu flush.

So my impression is SR seems to cut corners on the relatively little things to save their costs. Still a very nice boat, and the hull is solid, although it does not seem as solid as the 1971 SRV 190 I had years ago, that thing was a rock.

My next step is probably a 30-35 footer, and I would consider other brands, especially if I could find one with a bridge, but so far I haven't seen anything that would be a real step up, at least not in the same type of boat.
 
The horn is a joke. Mine actually filled with water after year #2. I have since installed a dual horn in the same space as my old single horn. Looks the same but much louder.

lawndoctor said:
Gotta agree with you generally on the SR quality issues. A few of my pet peeves, and this just is on a 22 footer:

1. The ridiculous "horn." Not only embarassing, but downright useless if you ever really need a sound signal in an emergency, which is dangerous. I filled and re-gel-coated the hole and installed a trumpet horn on deck. I don't think it detracts from the look. A boat is supposed to have a horn on deck.

2. The miniature 6" cleats on a boat that should be able to accomodate 1/2" line, or at least two loops of 3/8" line. I removed them, filled in the holes (now that I am by necessity skilled with fiberglass and gel coat), and put in 8" SR cleats (at about $80 each from Great Lakes Skipper, just for the cleats, plus about $20 each for SS backing plates, which had to be made since SR uses small aluminum plates, along with heavy duty nylock nuts, which had to be special ordered from Fastenal).

3. The "runabout" size gas tank for a "weekender." At 3200 RPM I use close to 9 GPH, meaning I can't go more than 2 1/2 hours in any direction without planning to refuel. That's fine if you're out water skiiing, but if you are actually "weekending" it's not much range.

4. The "porta pottie." Really? On a "weekender" made by "the" brand of boat in its class? Why was there not at least an option for a small vacu flush? I've owned the boat since 2007 and have yet to actually use the "head." My wife won't go near the thing. With a little rearranging of the FW system, the boat can easily accomodate a small vacu flush.

So my impression is SR seems to cut corners on the relatively little things to save their costs. Still a very nice boat, and the hull is solid, although it does not seem as solid as the 1971 SRV 190 I had years ago, that thing was a rock.

My next step is probably a 30-35 footer, and I would consider other brands, especially if I could find one with a bridge, but so far I haven't seen anything that would be a real step up, at least not in the same type of boat.
Click to expand...
 
@surfinjoe: what brand horn did you go to? ...and where did you get it? I need a new one (for obvious reasons).

Had to unkink drain lines, move the helm door stop back so I can secure the center glass with it open to limit wind/weather in the cockpit, and a few other quirks.
 
I went with the Ongaro mini dual horn. I managed to cram two horns into the space that my old horn took up. Only drawback is that I had to use the SeaRay horn grill. I paid like $80 at Amazon.
 
surfinjoe said:
Technically, Bayliner and SeaRay are owned by the same company. I still think our boats have a good quality to value ratio, however I too have experienced similar issues on both my boats.

My biggest complaints to date are:

1) Smartcraft gages 'shutting down' due to poor electrical connector (simply unplugging them and re-connecting fixes the issue, but is a PITA)
2) My mystery gremlin that blows a fuse in my engine compartment for no apparent reason, leaving me dead in the water. The first time this happened, it took me a few hours to figure out why my engine wouldn't start. Now it's only a few seconds to fix the blown fuse, but I would still like to know why this happens. I have traced the wires and just can't seem to find the root cause.
3) Terrible location of factory bildge pump, requiring arms 4' long to clean. I now have a second pump in front of the engine.
4) Ski locker needs 2nd access door. My locker is so long that I can't reach things that slide to the back.
5) Rearward opening anchor locker. All I can say here is WTF guys? How hard would it have been to design a locker hatch that opens to the side like the newer models have? I have thought about relocating the hinge to the side, but just haven't got around to it. I have had the anchor locker 'fly open' due to inexperienced help not understanding how to properly latch the hatch.
6) Canvas bag. This is my second new boat that was missing the bag for the canvas. Not a big deal, but the owners manual does state that a bag is included.
7) Steering wheel crack. I am very annoyed with this defect. The plastic is actually cracked and the clear coat finish is flaking off. I attempted to contact SeaRay several times without a response. The crack happened about a month after my factory warranty expired.
8) Engine cover (seat) needs to be one piece. This would allow better access to things. It pisses me off that I have to un-screw the bottom fiberglass (cutting the caulk) and re-install after I complete my repairs. Also, the seat has a tendancy to 'fly open' while trailering. A one piece design would hopefully eliminate this issue.
Click to expand...

Does that fuse blow when you are depressing the trim tab buttons?
 
I assume you mean trim down/up button? I don't have trim tabs. Anyhow, It only happens when I am at the sand bar and I shut the motor off. I typically put my trim into trailer position when at the sand bar, so yes I am depressing the button.

GJarrett said:
Does that fuse blow when you are depressing the trim tab buttons?
Click to expand...
 
Nah I was talking about trim tabs; I did not know if Sundecks had them or not. Trim tabs can blow a fuse if both buttons are depressed and held down too long. My boat has fuses in a pigtail assembly on the top rear of the engine. One of those fuses can be blown by the trim tabs and when that happens it shuts EVERYTHING down.
 
I think in the end I think it comes down to the corporate cost saving ease of and minimal time needed to build them.
Completely rebuilding our 85 270DA there were many things found that had me scratching my head why.
Of course I made my improvements but it could not have been all that bad to be still operating fine at 25 years old when I started them.
Every boat has it's flaws - some more than others and that includes those multi-million dollar yachts.
I guess in the end it's all part of the boating adventure :grin:
 
In a good way or bad way? One would thing the quality should transfer throughout the entire line not just the high dollar units. Heck I am going to be moving up but unless things are better on the larger boats I will be looking at other brands such as Pursuit or Tiara
 
islandhopper00 said:
When you guys step up to a cruiser, ya'll are really going to be surprised!
Click to expand...
Not sure what you mean. Are you saying that - staying in the same brand - we would be (a) pleasantly surprised at the step up in quality with a larger boat or (b) unpleasantly surprised at how the nickel-and-dime mentality is the same with a larger boat?

Also, I'm not sure what you consider a "cruiser." I guess I consider that to mean anything over about 25' that has a useable cabin. I certainly don't consider my 22' "weekender" a "cruiser," more like a large speedboat with a place below deck to put stuff.

My father had a 1976 30' Pacemaker. He had moved up from a 1971 26' Trojan. The difference in quality, on every last detail, was night and day. And it had nothing to do with the boat size. Our friends at the marina had similar experiences when they went from Trojan or Silverton to Viking, Pacemaker, or Egg Harbor.
 
I will say this. I just emailed Shorelander complaining about rust on the welds of my trailer. Same day response (and I am still waiting for a response from Sea Ray after three months and several emails). They were SUPER apologetic, said that it's a known and problematic issue, and offered to send me a free touch-up kit.

Sea Ray could learn a thing or two from their supplier!!!!
 
My apologies for this frustration, Tim.

Surface rust on welds is the most common coating issue that occurs with boat trailer product; it can be easily kept at bay with some touch up products we have.

I'd be glad to send you a touch up stick and spray can at no charge if I can get your trailer's VIN; I want to make sure that I get the right blue sent.

Lightly sand the welds to get off that spotty surface rust and then coat with the appropriate application - stick or spray.

Please send me your VIN (begins with 1MD and is 17 characters long) and I'll send the material to the address below.

Sincerely,

Doug Clough
Customer Service Manager
ShoreLand'r
 
I think the larger Sundecks have trim tabs. I installed smart tabs, but they have no electonics. Thinking out loud, maybe it has something to do with my trim limit switch or something.

GJarrett said:
Nah I was talking about trim tabs; I did not know if Sundecks had them or not. Trim tabs can blow a fuse if both buttons are depressed and held down too long. My boat has fuses in a pigtail assembly on the top rear of the engine. One of those fuses can be blown by the trim tabs and when that happens it shuts EVERYTHING down.
Click to expand...
 
I'm half-way through a second Summer with my 190, which has 123 hours on it.

So far:

1.) Ingnition switch has had to be replaced.
2.) Stripped/loose strut attachment on the transom walk thru sunpad.
3.) One dead speaker connection on the so-called "Premium Rockford-Fosgate Stereo".
4.) Some delamination (looks like chipped fingernail polish?) on the top of the swim platform.
5.) Benchseat cooler lid has come loose.
6.) A million (well, at least a 8 or 10) small screws have collected in my bilge - who the hell knows where they're from.
7.) Sunpad cushions are starting to loose some shape.

I really like my boat, but with these issues (as well as my having three-foot-itis) I've been talking with a Cobalt dealer about getting their 220.
 
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