Why is the West poking the Bear?

Maybe Russia feels like no one likes them. Maybe all they ever wanted was to hang out with the cool people. Back in the 50's the USSR wanted to join NATO and the vote was a NO. Gorbachev, Yeltsin, and even Putin was thinking about joining 20+ years ago.
Putin Says 'Why Not?' to Russia Joining NATO
By David Hoffman
March 6, 2000
Acting Russian President Vladimir Putin, in an unexpected gesture to the West, suggested in a television interview today that Russia would consider joining NATO if the Western alliance agreed to treat Russia as an equal partner.

"Why not? Why not?" Putin said when asked by BBC interviewer David Frost about Russian membership. "I do not rule out such a possibility, if it will be an equal partner."

"Russia is a part of European culture, and I do not consider my own country in isolation from Europe and from . . . what we often talk about as the civilized world," Putin said. "Therefore, it is with difficulty that I imagine NATO as an enemy."
 
El Capitan said:
yeah, we would roll over citizens, shelling suburbs, killing non combatants like Putin is....C'mon maan!

NATO is the excuse. See former Soviet Union for "why". Do some research. Find out where Ukrainians originate from, look back to the 16th,17th and 18th centuries. See what name pops up.

NATO....Pfft.
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You are comprehending my words as literal. The point I was making is, no fing way we let Russian military sit near our borders. We stopped them when they were 90 miles away from our border.

My grandparents escaped from Kiev, when it was in Russia. I know all I need to know.

I see you have added Historian to your medical and science credentials - Congrats. :)
 
Dani-Lu said:
Please try to take your emotion out of this topic, before you reply. This is not about innocent people dying. I am not negating the fact of how terrible this is, but we have to think strategically, not emotionally, especially when dealing with a Nuclear power! The reality is, Ukraine is not strategic for us. If it had such great value, we would be in there fighting.

Imagine if Putin cut a deal with Mexico or Canada, to put his military on our border in one of these countries, how do you think we would react? Well, this is exactly what the West is doing to Putin. And how do you think we would react to Canada or Mexico if they were pushing for Russian military to sit in their countries on our border? We would undoubtedly let them know who is boss!

It’s probably too late, but we should have agreed to never allow Ukraine into NATO, and in return Putin allows Ukraine to remain a separate state, speaking their chosen language. He doesn’t give a shit about Ukraine, other than them being a big buffer state from The EU, and he will never accept anything else. This is not a financial decision, this is about the security of his country! Sanctions and even shutting down his oil will not stop him. He isn’t crazy, he is smart and strategic in what he is doing. And, if we can’t fix this, his next step will be nuclear because the West has left him no other option!

I pray I am wrong, and we take him out and then try to resolve these issues with Russia.
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Spot on Dani, it all started here in the USA. Unfortunately it is too late for talks now. Putin is protecting his border as we would as well. In addition to missiles, if you peel back the onion, you will find the US is involved in bio labs strategically placed inside the border with Russia. Having that technology in your backyard would be very concerning. The problem is we as the American people are not being told the truth because everything is censored. I see Kamatoe, Pelosi and the rest of them going public in support of Ukraine and they are crooked as the day is long. So that leads me to think in support of Russia just because they are supporting Ukraine. The government there is not squeaky clean with a lot of corruption. Putin should have handled differently but if you back a man into a corner, he going to come out swinging. Just my twist, so don’t beat me up too bad.
I do feel for the citizens of Ukraine because the innocent always suffer the most.
 
Mauler34Rod said:
Spot on Dani, it all started here in the USA. Unfortunately it is too late for talks now. Putin is protecting his border as we would as well. In addition to missiles, if you peel back the onion, you will find the US is involved in bio labs strategically placed inside the border with Russia. Having that technology in your backyard would be very concerning. The problem is we as the American people are not being told the truth because everything is censored. I see Kamatoe, Pelosi and the rest of them going public in support of Ukraine and they are crooked as the day is long. So that leads me to think in support of Russia just because they are supporting Ukraine. The government there is not squeaky clean with a lot of corruption. Putin should have handled differently but if you back a man into a corner, he going to come out swinging. Just my twist, so don’t beat me up too bad.
I do feel for the citizens of Ukraine because the innocent always suffer the most.
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Ya bio-labs:rolleyes:...did you know the US made some Kasakhstanians and Georgians sick and even killed off a bunch of their cows a few years ago. I think we might have even had some bio-labs there too...yup we created the Covid virus in one of them too....that's the BS the Russians been spreading around anyway, some of it for decades.:rolleyes: Did you know the Russians claim that the same day they started the invasion that they said they weren't planning to do:eek:, according to them we got rid of the evidence in the bio-labs that same day.o_O Maybe not all of them though, because we had dozens and dozens of them.
 
Looks it’s abundantly clear that the Washington establishment wants conflict with Putin. When Trump came out and said “we should work with him” they went freaking nuts. The reality is it’s likely that Putin didn’t feel threatened by Trump as Trump wasn’t a NATO supporter. So he didn’t do squat. Biden came along and apparently negotiated an agreement to clear Ukraine’s path into NATO going forward and gave Putin the pretext he needed. And here we are. Let’s go Brandon.
 
Dani-Lu said:
You are comprehending my words as literal. The point I was making is, no fing way we let Russian military sit near our borders. We stopped them when they were 90 miles away from our border.

My grandparents escaped from Kiev, when it was in Russia. I know all I need to know.

I see you have added Historian to your medical and science credentials - Congrats. :)
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I like to read and edumacate myself unlike some sheeple. Re read your own post professor, its post #8.

Who's the self proclaimed historian now?
 
El Capitan said:
I like to read and edumacate myself unlike some sheeple. Re read your own post professor, its post #8.

Who's the self proclaimed historian now?
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I notice you talking stupid like this a lot… is that how they taught you to spell “educate” when you were a little boy in Cuba?
 
Former AG Bill Barr on Fox and he made an interesting point, he said that one of the tragic consequences of the false "Russia Collusion" narrative is that it tied Trump's hands on dealing with Russia and eliminated any possibility of him being able to negotiate anything that may have avoided the current situation. Who knows if he could have accomplished anything, but we also have Hillary to thank for the fact he couldn't even try.
 
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