Why aren't there riots?

[JV II]

Are you at all pissed that Obama spent 80 billion of your money to prevent the GM and Chrysler from going bankrupt? Remember how bad Obama and the democrats said it would be if they filed chapter 11? How is that plan working out? IDIOTS!!! Where is the outrage? Why not a single news story on this blunder? Why hasn't his popularity rating plumeted? Where's my 80 billion? Is anyone paying attention?

 

[elreyos]

I don't understand either. It's like people suddenly have their brains turned off

 

[joe and ali]

why aren't their rights

We hear ya buddy, but what can we do?? see Jo Sea's post on this same forum. With apparantly so much "contention" abounding, we still appear to be mute.

 

[Captain Pugwash]

What about all the money George Bush has spent and now we have to spend on this stupid "War". Things might be better in this country if we hadn't invaded Iraq!

 

[keokie]

I'm not sure Saddam still running Iraq would be better for us. Also, complain all you want about Bush (I certainly do). But when it comes to the War on Terrror, it has been a great success. There has not been an attack on American soil in over 7 years. Even the most optimistic pundits did not predict that after 9/11. Bush effectively fought terrorists as an away game.

And yes, I'm amazed at what Obama is doing. These are not the tactics that made America great.

 

[Boatingfool]

What about all the money George Bush has spent and now we have to spend on this stupid "War". Things might be better in this country if we hadn't invaded Iraq!

Wouldn't want to say that to the families with losses in NY... The US acted and didn’t allow another city(s) to be successfully attacked - we are fortunate we don't know the alternative.

Still trying to figure out what Obama is doing...

 

[promocop]

Really? Then exactly what are those things? Considering that the Prez inherited a HUGH mess, should we just let GM fail.? I drive a CADDY how many of you are driving foreign cars and scream about all the money leaving this country!

 

[rktktpaul]

Does anyone remember where Halliburton relocated to after being bailed out of bankruptcy by the US? Was Dubai or Bahrain??

 

[dpvandy01]

I'm getting my popcorn!

 

[dpvandy01]

Really? Then exactly what are those things? Considering that the Prez inherited a HUGH mess, should we just let GM fail.? I drive a CADDY how many of you are driving foreign cars and scream about all the money leaving this country!

Ford F-150


and thanks for asking

 

[Captain Pugwash]

Wouldn't want to say that to the families with losses in NY... The US acted and didn’t allow another city(s) to be successfully attacked - we are fortunate we don't know the alternative.

Still trying to figure out what Obama is doing...

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. The plane was full of Saudis. Saddam was a bad guy, no one disputes that. I am not going to argue, as it will be a waste of all our time. I just wana have fun boating!

 

[JV II]

Really? Then exactly what are those things? Considering that the Prez inherited a HUGH mess, should we just let GM fail.? I drive a CADDY how many of you are driving foreign cars and scream about all the money leaving this country!

I know you are not dumb or ignorant from your prior posts. Nobody is letting GM fail. We have no control over their success or failure (obviously). We should let let it alone as taxpayers. We should just let GM fail if that is the natural course, but GM won't fail. Bankruptsy is not a failure for GM IMO. It was unavoidable. Even I was able to predict that. If I was the president I wouldn't be so stupid to spend billions of taxpayer dollars on saving GM from chapter 11. The outcome of bankruptsy allows GM to be more competitive and successful. It should have happened without an additional loss of 80 billion dollars to the taxpayers (http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1897321,00.html), which, by the way is a large fraction of the cost of the war in Iraq. That money is gone forever with no benefit realized.
(http://zfacts.com/p/447.html). The 80 billion dollar auto bailout was spent in days and nets nothing for the taxpayors. I look forward to hearing anyone argue any value to this rediculous plan. I am open to the debate about the Iraq war and its short and long term benefits. I personally see some value to that investment.

 

[keokie]

Pugwash,

Germany had nothing to do with Pearl Harbor. Japan's attack got us into WWII. But once we were in the fight we recognized the direct threat Germany posed. While we fought both fronts of World War II, the understood policy was victory in Europe first.

It took some time, but once we eventually realized that facist imperialism had to be stopped, we stopped it everywhere we could find it. And we required unconditional surrenders. This in my opinion, (and many scholars) is why WWII was such a success for America.

 

[rktktpaul]

Pugwash,

Germany had nothing to do with Pearl Harbor. Japan's attack got us into WWII.

I'll agree with this.

But once we were in the fight we recognized the direct threat Germany posed.

That's where I need to disagree with you. We never declared war on Germany; Germany and Italy declared war on the US several days after Pearl Harbor. Even though we had friendly relations with England,France and Russia at the time, I don't think anyone can prove definitively that the US would have fought in Europe had Germany not declared war on us. Don't forget, the US stayed out of the war for several years, up until we were attacked.

Let me ask this; why didn't we invade Iran instead? Iran has proven to be hostile to the US and is clearly documented supporters of terrorism (Hezbollah), had captured and held Americans on sovereign soil (the land foreign embassies are located upon are considered sovereign to the home country). There's even documented proof that they are becoming nuclear, much more so than the information we had regarding Iraq.

So why not them??

 

[Turtlesboat]

I believe the reason we haven't invaded Iran yet, is because of their strong Islamic ties to many other countries in the area. Iraq didn't have any friends, they were causing fights with all of their neighbors. Lobbing scuds into Israel, Saudi, invading Kuwait, at war with Iran forever. Who knows what would have happened to the area if we let Iraq continue to invade other countries... Maybe Iran might have had a case for building nuclear weapons, now they don't. I'm not privy to that information but I'm sure it will play out over the years and we'll see why.

What puzzles me is N. Korea. Why on earth is everyone allowing a hostile country build and test nuclear weapons? Why would China allow this? unless they have a plan to let N. Korea lob a missile onto S. Korea, then invade N. Korea, make a case for a unified Korea and win it. Then more things can be "Made in China".

 

[hack4alivin]

Damn Mike you got a good thread here. This is going to make some interesting reading!

 

[tdappleman]

I think even worse than the GM bankruptcy deal is the fact that Obama thinks he is in the car warranty department... WTF? Also - part of the bankruptcy ruling should be NO MORE UNIONS.

About the money leaving the US - I've certainly done my part - and actually drive all American cars - Mustang, Expedition, Excursion, Bronco and soon to be an Explorer and of course my Sea Ray. I also bought a company in January which is probably the worst time - but it employs 5 people and provides a service to our area.

What should really bother us all is the 'global resource' BS that our companies are pouring all over us. I've watched way too many jobs disappear from the tech sector to go to India, China, Guadalajara, Singapore and other locations. They pretend they are saving money - when I used to have to try and reconcile that crap - it's pure crap. You might end up saving a few dollars but the skill sucks and the quality of work is dismal. They don't care - China is the worst and their main goal is to try and get more of your work at the expense of US workers.

 

[Dave S]

To me the real issue here is whether you think GM will be sucessful after they get out of Chapter 11. If the answer is yes then our government made the right choice and the "loans" get paid back. If the answer is no, then yes........we are out some big bucks. I am on the fence on that one.

Personally I don't think chapter 11 was the right course of action but letting them fail was not the right choice either. I think anything that further destabilizes the economy in such a poor economic climate like the one we are in (which Chapter 11 will do) is the wrong choice. In the long run we would have been better off taking more time to find other alternatives for GM besides bankruptcy even if we had to continue to loan them more money....but that's just my opinion.

In the end though all of our opinions don't mean squat. History will prove whether the Obama whiz kids made the right choice or not.

 

[JV II]

Someone please explain to me how letting GM go into chapter 11 back in January would cause the company to "fail," but letting them go into chapter 11 in June after giving them billions to delay the filing would allow them to succeed? Am I missing something?

Here's my take on it. If they went into chapter 11 in January the outcome for the company would be the same. It will reorganize, spin off new companies, restructure, and downsize. GM will still be around in 50 years. The only difference in doing this sooner rather than later is that the taxpayers would have saved billions. Chapter 11 was the right thing for the company and it should have happened without any government involvement. The bailout was the worst economic mistake in US history. We'll never see that money paid back.

Promocop and Dave S, please help me understand the benefit of the billions of tax dollars that were spent on this company in the last 6 months. Thanks.

By the way, the American employees making BMWs in S. Carolina, Toyotas in Kentucky, and Nissans in Tennessee and Mississippi are doing much better supporting their families and local business than those in Detroit. VW is building a plant in Tennessee. I'm sure the residents in Chattanooga are thrilled and anxiously anticipating its opening like the Kia plant worker are about their plant in West Point Georgia. I have yet to see or read a negative interview of any factory worker for Toyota, Nissan, BMW. Buying a US car for the sake of patriotism is an outdated concept. What does it say about the American car buyer when they still can't recognize that their support over the years has resulted in this mess. Its like the battered woman's syndrome.

I'm going to make a prediction. The auto plants in Detroit will soon be bought and managed by foreign companies, which would be a good thing. Maybe Chinese?

Flame retarding suit is on.

 

[elreyos]

Why does the discussion always turn to what Bush did? Ok so some of us didn't like Bush and his stategies, but what about our current President? Do you really believe he is doing the right things for America? What a about now? Do you really believe that the spending of trillions of dollars and increasing taxes is the correct path for us. When did this ever work? We've got to stop justifying what Obama is doing by pointing to Bushes mistakes. Sooner or later this honeymoon will be over. It's going to be ugly when it is. The longer it takes us to pull our heads out of the sand the uglier it will be.