What would you do to revive the US economy?

Discussion in 'The Tiki Bar' started by MonacoMike, Nov 6, 2011.

  1. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
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    The problem with all the hokey pokey is, it is just wrong. The examples do not real world compute. One of the big issues is not only the total percentage the top earners pay but also the percentage they earn. This chart shows what was earned compared to what was paid. The top 10% earned 44% of the income and paid 68% of the taxes in 04.

    [​IMG]

    MM
     
  2. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    97 270DA 5k Kohler A/C,
    85 Monaco 197
    7.4 300hp BII,
    260hp Alpha 1
    Most Americans want the chance to succeed and Do NOT begrudge the opportunity to all others. It is somewhat hopeful that a majority do not see a haves-have not society as evidenced by this Gallup poll. MM

    [​IMG]


    http://www.gallup.com/poll/151556/Fewer-Americans-Divided-Haves-Nots.aspx
     
  3. Pack66Dad

    Pack66Dad New Member SILVER Sponsor

    Aug 26, 2010
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    iagree.gif
     
  4. Pack66Dad

    Pack66Dad New Member SILVER Sponsor

    Aug 26, 2010
    Browns Point, Washington
    1997 41 Convertible
    Caterpillar 3126 Diesels
    sheepsmiley.gif
     
  5. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    97 270DA 5k Kohler A/C,
    85 Monaco 197
    7.4 300hp BII,
    260hp Alpha 1
    Pack you always agree with well refuted points, often after they have been refuted, all while failing to answer questions asking only for your opinions. MM
     
  6. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
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    How/why do you feel it was refuted?
     
  7. Pack66Dad

    Pack66Dad New Member SILVER Sponsor

    Aug 26, 2010
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    yeah, what Woody said.
     
  8. jason78

    jason78 Active Member TECHNICAL Contributor SILVER Sponsor

    Sep 3, 2008
    Fort Mill, SC / Lake Wylie
    1997 20 Outrage
    200 Merc Offshore
    With the start of Tax Filing Season upon us, I have a challenge for all the guys here that believe they should be paying more taxes. When you file your 2011 taxes, how about claiming no deductions and claim 0 dependants to raise your taxable income? It is getting really old hearing all these Warren Buffet types who, like him, probably use every legal loophole they can find, claim every possible deduction and excemption on their tax filing then run around saying "they should be paying more taxes and would not mind doing so".
     
  9. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    97 270DA 5k Kohler A/C,
    85 Monaco 197
    7.4 300hp BII,
    260hp Alpha 1
    nuff said. MM
     
  10. comsnark

    comsnark New Member

    Apr 10, 2007
    NJ Shore
    SeaRay SunSport
    5.7LX
    Really?

    All you are demonstrating is that the U.S. has a *progressive* tax code. DUH. Nobody is debating the progressive nature of the tax code.
    If the top 1% earned 40% of the income and paid 40% of the taxes. . .that would imply a *flat* tax code. Has the income tax ever been flat?
    I bet if the tax code was a flat 28%, the "right" would be complaining that this was unfair and be arguing for per capita taxes.


    The question on the table is *how progressive* and *how fair* the taxes are today. There is a perception that if you have enough money, you can buy a local congressman and carve yourself a special deduction. Or just buy the entire congress and flatten the entire curve. SURE looks that way, doesn't it?

    Jason: Not a question of volunteering to pay more. It is a question of *everyone* paying their fair share. I agree that many talk from both sides of the issues.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011
  11. floriduramax1

    floriduramax1 Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    Sep 19, 2010
    Florida
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    Yep. Just watch how GE has been operating over the last 40 years! Sure looks like they have it figured out!
     
  12. techmitch

    techmitch Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    May 1, 2008
    Chesapeake Bay, Middle River/Frog Mortar Creek MD.
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    To answer the OP'S original question. I would start by not borrowing money from china and then giving it back to them as financial aid while they collect interest on the loan.
     
  13. Dave 205

    Dave 205 New Member

    449
    Mar 15, 2011
    Omaha, NE
    2006 205 Sport, Shorelander Trailer. Towed by 2012 Ford F-150 Supercrew 5.0 with factory tow package
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    Mike, I think this just proves my point. Even in a flat rate tax, (as in my example), the top earners will always pay a LOT more taxes. If you believe that taxes should be at least somewhat progressive (and they are much less progressive now than they were in the past), the top earners will tend to pay much more in taxes in DOLLARS.

    The 70% argument almost seems focused on the idea that taxes should be like fees for local garbage pick-up. Everyone pays the exact same DOLLAR amount rather than rate.

    And, you are an informed guy. You know exactly the history of how top rates started dropping precipitously in the 1960's and another round of this came in the 1980's, and another round in the early 2000's. And, the gov't has been flat broke for a decade now.

    And this is working beneficially for us as a Nation how?
     
  14. Dave 205

    Dave 205 New Member

    449
    Mar 15, 2011
    Omaha, NE
    2006 205 Sport, Shorelander Trailer. Towed by 2012 Ford F-150 Supercrew 5.0 with factory tow package
    Mercruiser 5.0 220 HP Carb w/ Alpha 1 Drive
    I think your reply is the frustration so many of us have with politics today. We all stand around our favorite issues, but never look at all of the problems as a whole. You bring up different and valid issues, points I agree with in many cases. But, you don't really lay out a case for whether my ideas are valid or not.

    Had to add this edit: I am completely with you on the gov't interest expense issue. It drives me bananas that we have an unbalanced budget, and we waste so much on interest! Nothing is worse than living ahead of your revenues. You can only go so far ahead, and then you get into trouble as we are now, and you can’t borrow anymore without collapse. Borrowing money, unless for very specific, strategic purposes and with a plan to pay it back, is a terrible thing in most cases.

    If you think interest expense is bad now, it will be a nightmare if interest rates go back up. This is one big issue I have with the Federal Reserve; rates are artificially low for various reasons, not the least of which is keeping our gov’t from going under.

    Solutions to our budget problems will have to be both spending control and revenue increases.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011
  15. Pack66Dad

    Pack66Dad New Member SILVER Sponsor

    Aug 26, 2010
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    [h=1]How Germany Builds Twice as Many Cars as the U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice as Much[/h]"against all mainstream wisdom of the neo-liberals. We have strong unions, we have strong social security systems, we have high wages. So, if I believed what the neo-liberals are arguing, we would have to be bankrupt, but apparently this is not the case. Despite high wages . . . despite our possibility to influence companies, the economy is working well in Germany."

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederi...-while-paying-its-auto-workers-twice-as-much/
     
  16. Dave 205

    Dave 205 New Member

    449
    Mar 15, 2011
    Omaha, NE
    2006 205 Sport, Shorelander Trailer. Towed by 2012 Ford F-150 Supercrew 5.0 with factory tow package
    Mercruiser 5.0 220 HP Carb w/ Alpha 1 Drive

    I was hoping for something more substantive. At least point out that I have a typo in paragraph 3, sentence 4. Or that I have the wrong form of Capitol. I can't rule out a math error, but I don't see one, and I don't get the tie of the word statistics to this. This is basically a long form of crazy ol' Ross Perot's charts outlining an idea!
     
  17. floriduramax1

    floriduramax1 Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    Sep 19, 2010
    Florida
    280DA, Magic Tilt triple axle, 2006 GMC 2500 D/A
    T4.3/ Alpha
    never mind, it was covered
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011
  18. Dave 205

    Dave 205 New Member

    449
    Mar 15, 2011
    Omaha, NE
    2006 205 Sport, Shorelander Trailer. Towed by 2012 Ford F-150 Supercrew 5.0 with factory tow package
    Mercruiser 5.0 220 HP Carb w/ Alpha 1 Drive
    This is an argument that gets brought up a lot. And because it has a somewhat valid ring, I have a hard time answering it. So, here goes:

    I work as an independent contractor, and a small business owner. My CPA lays out an aggressive plan for me every year - because as for most of us, margins are slim and competition is tough. If I start paying extra taxes willy nilly by myself, I'll never balance the gov't budget single handedly, and I'll put myself at a disadvantage to the competition.

    But, if we are all on a level playing field, my business will survive, and as a pool of citizens we can get our budget and economy back on track.
     
  19. jason78

    jason78 Active Member TECHNICAL Contributor SILVER Sponsor

    Sep 3, 2008
    Fort Mill, SC / Lake Wylie
    1997 20 Outrage
    200 Merc Offshore
    I do understand what you are saying to a certain extent and get your point but I don't think you paying several thousand dollars a year more in tax is going to put you at much of a disadvantage to your competetion. It is in fact your personal income we are talking about, correct? So maybe you have to get rid of the boat or another "luxury" item that you have worked hard for? I am not sure what side of the fence you are on but if you are a higher tax guy, that should not matter as long as the goverment gets more money to spend.

    What exactly is the level playing field? Are you suggesting a flat tax? If so, then I am in full agreement.

    Also, it has already been analyzed time and time again that even if you tax the rich at 90%, it is not going to put a dent in the current government spending anyway. Warren Buffet is out running his mouth about this but I have not seen him come forward offering to pay the govermnent back the 500 million they lost from Obama's loan to Solyndra. Maybe he should kick in a few million to help if he is that passionate about paying more tax.

    It just grates on my nerves when some people (like him) constantly complain about them not paying enough tax but rather than just paying more tax themselves, they say they want everyone else to do it. The old Limousine Liberal "Do as I say, not as I do" mentality. I give to charitys on a regular basis, although I would like to see more people give money, I don't refuse to do so just because everyone else is not.

    Here is my position on it. When the government stops wasting the billions of dollars we are already paying to them, if they still need more, I would have no problem paying more tax. Something tells me though, if all the wasteful spending is cut, I would actually get a decrease. I mean, what the higher tax guys are asking for here is like an individual running up all their credit cards and loans on junk, vacations, bars, or whatever and then keeps going back to the bank "needing" more and more money for the same things, all the while saying "I will try to see what I can do to cut spending at some point".
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011
  20. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    97 270DA 5k Kohler A/C,
    85 Monaco 197
    7.4 300hp BII,
    260hp Alpha 1
    It is not working for us as a nation. There is a central question when it comes to taxation; will it raise the revenue? I personally do not like a progressive tax as it leads to class exploitation by the powerful from politicians to dictators. It has been proven time and time again that tax rates have little to do with revenue. The Bush years saw greater receipts, as did the Reagan years, than higher rate periods. Most of us for lower tax rates know it brings a better economy and more money into the Federal coffers. MM
     

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