"What is wrong" was already asked....

Discussion in 'The Tiki Bar' started by Gofirstclass, Feb 19, 2018.

  1. 2000SR380

    2000SR380 Member

    451
    Feb 17, 2014
    Emeryville, CA
    2005 Sea Ray 280 Sundancer, Express Cruiser
    Two 5.0L Gas Mercruiser V8, B3 Outdrives
    Liberal with a gun locker here. Chiming in from California. I do not trust the US Government any further than I can toss an elephant. I would have to say the danger is at least as real as it ever was. Maybe more so because we imagine ourselves so advanced and civilized. I have experience with "45" before he was a politician. My Dad and I went to a couple of meetings regarding the "Trump Ocean Resort" in Baja Mexico. I have a cousin who was involved with ACN inc. and tried to rope me into the program. These two experiences caused me to learn way more about Trump than I ever wanted to know, and now he is leader of the free world. if you never looked at how Hitler came to power in a Democratic Germany, you might be startled by modern day similarities. Now, that said, here in good old California we have the strictest gun laws in the Nation. Bordering on the absurd. It is illegal to carry a gun in my car unless it is unloaded and in the trunk. Or is a locked box other than the center console or glove box. We have a two week waiting period, and there is a test you must take to demonstrate you are somewhat better than a complete moron, before you can purchase a gun. "Assault weapons" are already outlawed since 1989. So it is (in my opinion) easy to see where either branch of our government can not be given any sort of "trust". The 2nd amendment is not just so we can protect ourselves from each other.
     
  2. bobeast

    bobeast Dance the Tide SILVER Sponsor

    601
    Oct 22, 2017
    Isleton, CA
    2002 310DA
    350 MPI w/V-drives
    You sound more conservative than liberal on this subject (and that is meant as a compliment). You're 100% correct about the absurdity of the laws in CA. Let's not forget the requirement of having a background check in order to purchase ammunition. As for the so-called "assault" weapons ban, California conveniently reserves the right to define what characteristics constitute an assault weapon. And their "may issue" rules for CCW are a joke in most counties in CA.
     
  3. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    I, for one, do not trust my government because they have proven to me that they are not trustworthy. The NSA is not supposed to spy on US citizens. Thank you Mr. Snowden for bringing their illegal activities to our attention.

    The CIA is not supposed to be used against US citizens. Again, their disregard of those laws is widely known.

    The IRS is supposed to be non-partisan but Mr. Obama used them to investigate conservative organizations and deny them their applications for tax exempt status.

    I'm sure there are many, many other illustrations of how our government has ignored its own laws and does whatever the hell it pleases.

    Now, that being said, I don't expect the government to come knocking on my door to take away all my firearms. ("Sorry guys, I gave them all to the neighbors.") But I do not trust them to do their jobs in the way they are supposed to do it.

    Yeah, I voted for Trump but only because I didn't want a felon or a socialist in the Oval Office. The least of the worst? Yup, that he was. I approve of much of what he has done in the year he's been in office but that's like saying I approve of the local child molester because he only molested a handful of little kids.
     
  4. scoflaw

    scoflaw Well-Known Member

    Aug 10, 2011
    cape cod mass
    1999 Powerquest legend 260 sx
    502 mpi Bravo 1
    "Sorry guys, I gave them all to the neighbors", don't work if they come knocking with the "marshal law" line, which they are completely entitled to do at any time whenever they feel like doing it. You'll be in a lockdown in your own dwelling and they will do a search and seizure of your lawfully owned firearms. That's how that law works.

    Take that Boston marathon bombing for instance. They pulled that crap on over a million people, went door to door doing what I just said. Confiscated legally owned firearms from the civilians in that city. Told them to stay inside.

    After the young unarmed punk was caught, they started printing T shirts with "Boston Strong" on them.
    So you tell me what's so strong about a million people cowering in their homes because the government tells them to ?
     
  5. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    Scoflaw, I hadn't heard about civilian firearms being confiscated in Boston following the Marathon bombing so I just spend about 30 minutes on Google trying to verify it or find proof that it didn't happen. I found neither.

    One website that I will describe as one that promotes conspiracy theory repeated that claim but offered no actual proof--no statements from anyone whos firearms were taken.

    There were statements from people who were told by armed military and/or police to remain inside and "shelter in place" as the authorities searched neighborhoods for the bomber who was still missing. To do otherwise would have been stupid for the Boston residents, and probably have subjected them for interfering with the search/investigation.

    As to your claim "They pulled that crap on over a million people", that's a bit hard to believe when the entire city of Boston has a population just over 670,000. Where were the rest of those 330,000 people?

    As I said above, I don't really trust the government to do what it is legally allowed to do, but I also don't believe they confiscated firearms from a million residents. We certainly would have heard a LOT about that from the NRA and others.
     
    bobeast and Steve S like this.
  6. scoflaw

    scoflaw Well-Known Member

    Aug 10, 2011
    cape cod mass
    1999 Powerquest legend 260 sx
    502 mpi Bravo 1
    Boston is my local news station, NBC. They used the word million. They were covering the story non stop for the days it took to find him. Plenty of video of men in black going door to door.It wasn't until they lifted the martial law that a civilian found the bomber. Shelter in place is a polite government term . Never said they took guns from a million residents.
     
  7. LTD.330

    LTD.330 Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2009
    Lake Erie
    1999 Sundancer 330
    7.4 MPI
    True, technically you never said "they took guns from a million residents", it was just heavily implied.

    There is no simple solution to school shootings. From this article: https://conflictresearchgroupintl.c...stop-school-shootings-think-again-erik-kondo/

    Given the complete lack of unbiased data, evidence, and expertise on the subject due to the relatively low number of incidents, people select approaches based on their preexisting favorite solution.

    • If you hate guns, you will say that gun control is the solution.
    • If you love guns, you will say more guns is the solution.
    • If you are for Capital punishment, you will say that the death penalty is the solution.
    • If you think that male aggression in a problem in society, you will say that eliminating male aggression is the solution.
    • If you think mental illness is a problem in society, you will say that more mental health resources are the solution.
    • If you manufacture bulletproof products, you will say that more bulletproof products in the classroom is the solution.
    • If you think that kids are out of control, you will say the more parental discipline is the solution.
    • If you are in the business of teaching self-defense, you will say that more student/teacher training is the solution.
    And so on.

    And every one of you will be correct in some manner AND incorrect in some other manner. For every example of why your pet solution will work, there are likely to be more examples of why your pet solution will not work. There is also the fact that no school shooting is the same. Some are mass casualty events. Some are few casualty events. And some are threats and fights gone wrong. Therefore, an effective approach needs to also take into consideration the various types of school shootings.
     
    Boston-boater likes this.
  8. Boater420

    Boater420 Well-Known Member

    Mar 11, 2015
    Clearwater, FL
    '97 330 Sundancer
    V-Drives
    Westerbeke 4.5BCG
    Twin Merc 454's
    How bout this gun confiscation:
     
  9. UnleashedBeast

    UnleashedBeast Member

    36
    Nov 21, 2017
    Pensacola, Fl.
    Shopping for a Sundancer or Sedan Bridge with Cummins diesels.
    Boatless
    Actually, this one can't be due to my personal interest. Facts do not lie.

    Gun Free Zones
     
  10. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    I saw some people being forced out of their homes but did not see any weapons confiscated. The cops talked about it but there was no evidence that it actually happened.
     
  11. scoflaw

    scoflaw Well-Known Member

    Aug 10, 2011
    cape cod mass
    1999 Powerquest legend 260 sx
    502 mpi Bravo 1
    That be the CSR rule...if there's no pics it didn't happen. LOL
    One more thing....wouldn't a convict in prison be considered to be " sheltering in place" ? Just askin
     
    Boater420 likes this.
  12. Boater420

    Boater420 Well-Known Member

    Mar 11, 2015
    Clearwater, FL
    '97 330 Sundancer
    V-Drives
    Westerbeke 4.5BCG
    Twin Merc 454's
    Maybe all these people are lying.

     
  13. LTD.330

    LTD.330 Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2009
    Lake Erie
    1999 Sundancer 330
    7.4 MPI
    You'll have to explain to me where I stated something otherwise. I certainly don't dispute where these active shooter events occur.

    Read the article I quoted from. These shootings are complex events and nobody's pet solution is the answer, it's going to take a lot of non-biased thinking and the will to follow through to mitigate these events. Sadly and realistically, Active shooting events can't possibly be prevented.
     
  14. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    Do you think 'shelter in place' could be simply good advice rather than some abuse of your rights. The streets were swarming with a disorganized bunch of LEO's. When they got the first bomber the LEO's put some bullet holes in him, the trees, the cars, the houses, TV sets, refrigerators, and even their fellow LEO. During that 'gunfight' all the damage done was by the cops gunfire.

    Here's the authorities loosing it when the other bomber was cornered in the boat. If they actually had a target there's no way he'd have survived. Where did all those rounds go? I think 'shelter in place' was good, smart advice, it probably saved some lives.
     
  15. scoflaw

    scoflaw Well-Known Member

    Aug 10, 2011
    cape cod mass
    1999 Powerquest legend 260 sx
    502 mpi Bravo 1
    Not sure who came up with the "shelter in place" term. It was Marshal law plain and simple..it was enforced to stay inside...wasn't an option to leave your house or to be outside on your property.

    Google the def of Marshal Law. That's what went down plain and simple. Can't be sugar coated by using a different phrase

    The citizens had no constitutional rights at that point in time
     
  16. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    Scoflaw, I'm going to politely disagree with you about "shelter in place" and martial law being the same thing. I'm basically familiar with the provisions of Martial Law and they are quite different from what "shelter in place" is designed to do.

    Briefly, shelter in place is used when there is an active danger to the general public and, rather than move the public to a place of safety they are asked/told to shelter where they are. This keeps the cops from having to protect large masses of people in an outdoors situation where they might be moving from one area (area of possible danger) to another, safer area. If the cops had to protect a large group or many large groups, that takes them away from their primary function which should be removing the dangerous person. It also reduced the possibility of an innocent person being shot by the cops because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    I guess if there was a shooter on the loose in my neighborhood and the cops told me to stay inside for my own protection, you can bet your arse I would stay inside.

    Boater420, those people apparently had their guns taken from them. I'm not sure of the circumstances that led up to the confiscations--I wasn't there at the time. So I will agree that in those situations the guns were taken from them. Since they go them back (at least the guy with the rifles in the case had his) it would appear they were later returned to the owners.

    If you remember what was going on in New Orleans following Katrina, it was like a war zone in many areas of town. Rioting, looting, shootings, etc. I'm not trying to second guess the cops or condone what they were doing, but my guess is they may have felt like the fewer guns there were on the street the better off everyone would be. Wasn't my call so I can't say if it was a good thing to do or a bad thing.

    Now if you think I'm trying to say the government (cops, soldier, etc) did no wrong and/or that I'm trying to cover for them, go back up to my earlier post about how much I trust the government. (Post 143)
     
  17. Blueone

    Blueone Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Jan 24, 2007
    Lake Erie, Ohio
    2004 420 Sundancer
    Cummins 6CTA 450's
    image.png Hey ... You guys can take a break... CNN has moved on
     
  18. Blueone

    Blueone Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Jan 24, 2007
    Lake Erie, Ohio
    2004 420 Sundancer
    Cummins 6CTA 450's
    image.png Not one story on front page related to shooting
     
  19. Boater420

    Boater420 Well-Known Member

    Mar 11, 2015
    Clearwater, FL
    '97 330 Sundancer
    V-Drives
    Westerbeke 4.5BCG
    Twin Merc 454's
    Not at all GFC, I was originally trying to respond to this post:

    Then in post #143 you stated, "I don't expect the government to come knocking on my door to take away all my firearms."

    To which Scoflaw presented the Boston bombing as an example of the government going door to door collecting guns. You doubted his account which led me to present more proof (Katrina) that the government does indeed go door to door and disarm law abiding citizens, which directly violates the Second Amendment.

    So to answer bajturner, yes sir, some of us do believe this purpose to be real and events like the Boston bombing and Katrina are proof positive, that when the government wants your guns they're going to come and take them.
     
  20. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    Do we know if any of those confiscated weapons were ever returned to the original owners? It would appear they were because the one guy with the two rifles in the hard case was saying that his weapons were confiscated.
     

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