"What is wrong" was already asked....

Discussion in 'The Tiki Bar' started by Gofirstclass, Feb 19, 2018.

  1. Handsome Transom

    Handsome Transom Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jan 26, 2018
    Penetanguishene Ontario Canada
    1989 SeaRay Sundancer 268 454 Bravo
    454 Mercruiser bravo drive
    I disagree vehemently I AM Canadian and we gave dew off the problems we see in the news weekly in the USA . We do gave access to buy and use guns but controlled so the process of training and buying is drawn out over some months. Most rural Canadians own guns but not assault rifles or pistols . Semiautos are limited to 5 rounds. Pistols held by collectors or target shooters need a permit to convey(travel to and from the range) that gas to be done with it secured in a locked case breech removed ammunition in a separately locked case.shotguns have the tube factory plugged to hold 3 shells.. When we apply for a Possession and acquisition licence a criminal record check is done at the federal level and permits are not given to those with violent crimes convictions like domestic abuse or assault.im not saying that our system is perfect but overall it works as evidenced by low gun crime rates.To own an assault type rifle is not common but not impossible either since we do have a class if permit for those restricted guns too but the permitting process us much more stringent.i hope meaningful legislation is passed in your country and your innocents stop being killed in such large numbers. I no longer travel to the USA because of the risks to life for my family my sister was lucky enough to escape the Florida nightclub shooting having cancelled plans to be there that night.
    M Prod likes this.
  2. Creekwood

    Creekwood Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 26, 2009
    Oakville and Georgian Bay, Ontario
    '97 330 Sundancer, Raymarine C80 suite with radar, Mercury 310 Hypalon w/8hp Yammie 2stk
    2X 454 carbs w/ vDrives
    At risk of wading into....

    The US has by far the highest murder rates and numbers of deaths from mass shootings of any civilized nation.

    If it is not your gun laws, help me understand what it is and why it is so different in the US?
  3. LTD.330

    LTD.330 Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Oct 5, 2009
    Lake Erie
    1999 Sundancer 330
    7.4 MPI
  4. Razzle Dazzle

    Razzle Dazzle Ship shape and Bristol Fashion SILVER Sponsor

    Jul 2, 2016
    United Kingdom and Florida
    Sea Ray Express Cruiser 340 1989 Mercruiser 7.4
    Mercruiser twin 7.4 Gas powered
    Statistics do not tell of the horror if a member of your family is a statistic.
  5. Creekwood

    Creekwood Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 26, 2009
    Oakville and Georgian Bay, Ontario
    '97 330 Sundancer, Raymarine C80 suite with radar, Mercury 310 Hypalon w/8hp Yammie 2stk
    2X 454 carbs w/ vDrives
    I remember reading about that organization and its founder and I am not sure about those statistics. I understand that its hard to find unbiased data but I would put that one with the studies done by the NRA. I think the AMA did one a few years ago on overall gun death stats (maybe not mass shootings) that showed the US overall numbers were much higher than other civilized countries.

    By the way, I am a hunter and gun owner since I was old enough to buy a gun (the money from my first summer job went to buy a Winchester 12ga pump). I was against the "long gun registry" law when it came into Canada because it was a lot of cost and effort to solve a problem that did not exist. Thankfully its gone.

    Anyway its not my country. All I can do is observe and hope you folks find a way to lessen gun violence while maintain the right to own guns. There are ways to have both.
  6. bajturner

    bajturner Member GOLD Sponsor

    Aug 17, 2010
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge
    Avon 380DL RIB w/ Yamaha 40
    Twin QSC-500 HO
    It's not easy to go backwards on this though...

    I believe the more guns there are the more shootings there will be, but in this case I also see the merit in the statement "if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns." If you could remove all the guns from the criminals and crazy or evil people, there is no doubt in my mind gun violence would be greatly diminished.

    Someone said the other day, if my kid hits someone with a stick, I don't blame the stick but I do take it away. You wouldn't until they were away from all the other kids holding sticks!
  7. Simpsonn8908

    Simpsonn8908 Member

    Dec 18, 2017
    1998 Sundancer 330
    7.4 MPIs V Drives
    At the risk of walking into this melee, I found this particular statement interesting. I’ve had this discussion with friends before and have heard both sides. One from a friend who teaches conceal and carry and firearms courses to police, and the other believe it or not from my law school prof who is suing the university for his right to carry on campus.

    If you interested in said individual, please look up Royce Barondes at the University of Missouri.

    With that, I’m stepping back and continuing to follow this conversation from the side lines.
  8. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    2000 Cruisers 3870
    97 270 Sundancer
    85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
    8.2 Mercs,
    7.4 BII
    260hp Alpha 1
    This is just flat out Fake News...

    The gun confiscation folks promulgate this type drivel to the uninformed.

    They always want to compare shooting deaths not murder rates.

    They always want to add suicides to "gun deaths".

    They always want to add the gangbanger cities to "gun deaths". Nearly 60% of the US had NO Murders, and many of these areas have the highest concentration of gun ownership.

    The US has fewer "mass shootings" per capita than much of the world.

    What is so different? I will tell you:

    Historically the people of the US are exceptional! Historically they are an entrepreneurial people. Historically they are builders, having built the greatest country in the world. Historically they are a charitable people, often giving more than the rest of the world combined. Historically they are a fierce people having rescued Europe twice from tyranny and many other countries as well. Historically they are an independent people who believe in freedom to say, live, and die as independent people. Free to build and earn what they can and lead their families as they see fit. These exceptional people believe in the inalienable right to defend themselves, their families, and their homes or business. That is why the US has the Second Amendment, right after the Right of free speech, assembly, religion, and to petition the Government to , not give rights, but to memorialize that they are inviolable by the government as they are inalienable.

    I will grant you the weenie brigade that wants to depend on government for everything are trying their best to pervert our way of life but many Americans are trying to get this country back on track to follow these historical paths our forefathers blazed.

    If you want to know what the causes of this shooting are check out my post here: Post#32


    Arickosmo likes this.
  9. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    Here's a list of murder rates by Nationmaster http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Violent-crime/Murder-rate-per-million-people

    Murder rate per/100,000.....how bad is bad? Rates fluctuate but generally the US rate is 2-2.5 times that of Canada. I look at it and think we both have low rates, 1.6 vs 4.2.

    To say the US has the highest rate among civilized countries sounds terrible. I can make it sound worse by saying our rate of murder is as high as some third world countries, that would be true.

    Guess what some other third world, undeveloped, not nearly as civilized countries as Canada, happen to have, it is a murder rate that is just as good, some even have a lower rate than Canada, that's true too.

    As a Canadian travel destination, after #1 USA comes Mexico at #2. Other favorite Canadian destinations are Dominican Republic, Barbados, Bahamas, Cuba. You guys are much safer in good ol' USA than in Mexico or the Caribbean.

    So how bad is bad? How dangerous are our countries? What's the odds we'll be murdered?

    The odds are you're more likely to commit suicide than be murdered by someone else.

    I don't like the way the subject is presented. You'll hear something like 330 million guns in the US, more guns than people. When the critics talk it's as if everyone has one.

    This is more accurate description...There are 127 million households in the US, 35-50% of those households have firearms. You could deduce from that, that not every American is a gun nut. Surprise...not every American has a need for a gun, some don't even like them, and virtually all are not 'nuts'.
  10. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    In the school shooter discussion the question why, what pushes them of the edge, comes up. It's not uncommon for folks to bring up video games, they desensitize the kids some think. I dunno about that. 'Normal' kids always know pretend from real but perhaps for some kids that mother nature threw a genetic curve ball.

    I suspect potential school shooters are simply affected, desensitized, by the real life and examples they're exposed to. What adults do is easy for them to see, the wars, drone strikes blowing up people, cops shooting the shit out of people whether they deserve it or not, a marathon bombing...we have to show bodies, legs blown off and bloody stumps. Kids get a non-stop dose of trussed up people thrown off roofs, stoned to death, hangings, heads cut off. They don't just hear about it, they can watch it and lots of them do. Can you imagine the effect on a kid that doesn't have both oars in the water to start with. It's a fact that many of these shooters have been fascinated by the actions of previous ones.

    True story....about '74-75 a young woman, around 23yo, and her little kids were murdered. It happened near a small community, couple hundred people, not far from where I lived. A young guy, high school age, that was 'different' came to a home outside of town. He was not a stranger, everyone knew who he was. After killing the mother he chased the little kids around, caught and killed them, the youngest was around 2yo. They found/caught him the same day or next.

    Remember, this is long before the possibility of 'desensitizing video games'. The investigation found that he had been interested in the Manson murders. In his stuff they found he had been reading books. It's hard to remember but it was Truman Capote's book In Cold Blood or it was the book called Helter Shelter about the Manson murders, maybe it was both. The investigation found he had been telling other kids, 'someday I'll be famous'.

    I told the story in one of these gun threads of my mother hollering 'shut the door, the flies are getting in'. I thought there'd be a response...maybe you all thought it was dumb.

    They talk of hardening the schools, primarily by bringing in guns. I'm not totally against that but I wonder, how about we take control of those schools, let's prevent the unauthorized individuals from getting in to start with. I like that better than counting on armed teachers going to battle in the hallways. Some schools do some of this, can't help wondering why it isn't talked about much.

    It'd be an awesome security cam video....armed gunman with all his cool gear on, his messed up noggin full of thoughts of fame, he tries the doors and they're locked, he tries to shoot out windows but they're bulletproof, what a bummer for him...he can't even get in.
  11. Blueone

    Blueone Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Jan 24, 2007
    Lake Erie, Ohio
    2004 420 Sundancer
    Cummins 6CTA 450's
    In my Fisher's Indiana school district we have a police officer in each school. The high school has two. They have an office to do their paper work...so instead of going to the station they come to a school. They rotate out during the day but there is always the required number of officers there. They also park out front of the main entrance it gives a presence and you know they are there.
    dwna1a likes this.
  12. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    Blueone, I live in an metro area comprised of 3 cities, total pop about 300,000. Many of our schools have "Resource" officers who, like your schools spend their entire day there.

    As a retired cop I would do that job. I love working with kids and it just about kills me to read of these school shootings. I picture myself not as a hero, but more of a Lt. Col. Dave Grossman Sheep Dog sort of a guy.
    Arickosmo likes this.
  13. UnleashedBeast

    UnleashedBeast Member

    Nov 21, 2017
    Pensacola, Fl.
    Shopping for a Sundancer or Sedan Bridge with Cummins diesels.
    That is the reason why the 2nd amendment exists, and its primary function. Our founding fathers knew all governments become corrupt with tyranny, so this amendment was created for the people to defend the constitution from corrupt leaders. Anyone who does not study history would think this is preposterous, as I can see with the stability of your government.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
    MrHappy likes this.
  14. UnleashedBeast

    UnleashedBeast Member

    Nov 21, 2017
    Pensacola, Fl.
    Shopping for a Sundancer or Sedan Bridge with Cummins diesels.
    You hit the nail on the head sir. Gun Free Zones must end! Shooters choose these locations because there will be no resistance, no one shooting back. If there were, they would not go there. When was the last time anyone ever heard of a crazy gunman walking into a police station to shoot it up? How about a gun show? Never!
  15. dwna1a

    dwna1a Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Apr 23, 2012
    James River
    88 Weekender 300 "Seahorse"
    Twins 350
    Even with the locked doors and a officer there are flaws in the system.

    Today my wife has a meeting. A student who does have a history told everyone on his bus that he was going to kill them all. The mother swore he would never say something like than, even after admitting that he did say it the mother swore the staff made him say it. Then the mother went off on the admin staff threats of doing harm to the families of my wife and others that were in the meeting. The resource officer is one of best friends, we shoot together and he loves to metal detect up on my property to decompress. He will be staying very close to the meeting.

    Here is the flaw. They have to let the parent into the school anytime she wishes and her son will continue to ride the bus, once he is allowed to return to school. Anyone can get into the school just by saying their kid forgot his lunch.
  16. Creekwood

    Creekwood Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 26, 2009
    Oakville and Georgian Bay, Ontario
    '97 330 Sundancer, Raymarine C80 suite with radar, Mercury 310 Hypalon w/8hp Yammie 2stk
    2X 454 carbs w/ vDrives
    And how long should they have to wait to obtain a gun? And what process and scrutiny should they have to go through? The NRA would say, none at all. Its their 2nd amendment right to go buy a gun. I think that is as much of a flaw as the school board's idiocy and potentially much more dangerous.
  17. Espos4

    Espos4 Active Member

    Jan 1, 2017
    Long Island NY
    2007 240 Sundeck
    350 MAG Bravo 3 W/DTS

    Lt. Col. Grossman gave a 4 hour lecture to a group of 30 of us at a training seminar last year. Very interesting and eye opening stuff, every minute and every word of it.
  18. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    Problem solved, this is for real
  19. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    The student and parent could be charged with making terrorist threats, a felony, that would take care of their right to a legal gun purchase. The laws already exist and are used, google 'kids charged with making terrorist threats'.
  20. MrHappy

    MrHappy Active Member

    Mar 31, 2011
    1991 Sea Ray 225BR
    I live in Carmel Indiana which is next to Fishers. Our school system has the same set up.

    I am getting ready to call the Principal at my daughters Middle School and the School administration. I want to ask them if they have a plan in place for the “March 14th 10:00 A. M. School Walkout.”

    I will let them know of my thoughts. Any student or teacher who walks out should not be allowed back on the property. Teachers should not be allowed access to their car. Leave campus, leave in your car. Students, no bus ride home. Students and teachers who participate in the walkout should be suspended. No re-taking tests or homework while on suspension.

    If these folks want to protest do it after school, weekends or during Spring break. I can not walk out on my job. Furthermore I would not consider it.

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