"What is wrong" was already asked....

Discussion in 'The Tiki Bar' started by Gofirstclass, Feb 19, 2018.

  1. Steve S

    Steve S Active Member GOLD Sponsor

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    Part of the bigger problem is that we need uniform gun laws across the country. Yes, Chicago has the toughest laws around for guns. But all the gang bangers do is take a short drive to Indiana where the laws are not a stringent as they are in Illinois and they buy their weapons. Uniform laws would eliminate this loophole. Not advocating for more laws - just consistent laws from state to state, city to city.

    There were many red flags with this guy that were ignored. Where are the laws penalizing everyone that didn't raise a red flag allowing this to happen??

    Lastly, I saw an article that said he was treated at the same hospital as the victims but in a secluded room. Said he was pretty catatonic and unresponsive like he was in shock. I wonder if it went from being like a game to being real horror and killing innocent people wasn't what he thought it would be like... He had multiple loaded magazines but he simply dropped the gun, backpack and walked away while trying to fit in with the crowd. He didn't try and run per se but went to a fast food joint...
     
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  2. M Prod

    M Prod Active Member SILVER Sponsor GOLD Sponsor

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    It is all too easy for anyone from Chicago to drive to Indiana (where the gun laws are very lax) and purchase a gun. Even if a state has strict gun laws there are many states that don’t. It’s all too easy for anyone to go to any of those states and purchase a firearm and then bring it back to a state that has strict gun laws. No one is at a state line checking your car. Another country not so much. I would argue that mental health in Canada is no better than in the US, but these shootings don’t happen. Not on this scale ..nowhere even close. What is Canada doing differently than the US? It’s really very simple in my opinion. And to hear that stricter gun control could never work in the US is nonsense. Again guy can be on a terror watch list, can’t get on a plane, but can legally purchase a gun. I mean what planet do you have to be from where this makes sense? Definitely not my world.

    I’m not arguing that mental health isn’t a problem, but it’s not the ONLY problem. Gun control IS also a big part of the problem. Take guns out of the hands of the mentally ill just like you would take a car out of the hands of a drunk driver and ...
     
  3. M Prod

    M Prod Active Member SILVER Sponsor GOLD Sponsor

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    Also, that is complete BS.
     
  4. Boater420

    Boater420 Well-Known Member

    Mar 11, 2015
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    You guys think the "gang bangers" are buying their guns legally in Indiana :rolleyes:

    The only thing stricter gun laws are going to do is keep guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens. When a gang banger needs a gun he buys it from one of the many local thieves right in his own town. No need to travel to Indiana and have a record of the sale.

    Jeez!
     
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  5. Great Lakes

    Great Lakes Active Member SILVER Sponsor

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    I agree but these shouldn't be laws, they should be people getting fired, ie FBI

    This is a great thought. Never looked at this angle before. He was playing a real life video game
    We have the 2nd amendment to protect ourselves, Canada does not. The everyday law abiding US citizen with a firearm follows the laws already, criminals do not! You could put 100 new laws on the books and they'll just restrict the citizens that have the right to bear arms.
     
  6. M Prod

    M Prod Active Member SILVER Sponsor GOLD Sponsor

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    Oh really? Because you can own guns in Canada too. (I own guns and had no problems acquiring them seeing as I am mentally stable with no criminal record) You can own as many guns as you like provided you pass the required universal background checks, mental health evaluations, etc. And I'm not worrying about my kid getting shot up at school. That's a fair and reasonable trade off if you ask me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
  7. Steve S

    Steve S Active Member GOLD Sponsor

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    Never said they were purchasing guns legally in Indiana. Laws are less strict so less time if they do get caught.
     
  8. Boater420

    Boater420 Well-Known Member

    Mar 11, 2015
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    I'm pretty sure you did.

    Either they're buying their weapons in Illionois legally or illegally. If legally then they're purchasing through a dealer or gun show. If illegally, why bother to make the trip as I'm sure they're plenty of guns right in Chicago. Am I missing something here?
     
  9. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
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    Up in my area are thousands of camps/cabins/vacation homes. Because they're not occupied full time, often secluded locations, they're easy picking for thieves. One of the main items they're after are firearms....guess where they end up.
     
  10. Steve S

    Steve S Active Member GOLD Sponsor

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    We are talking semantics now. Not every gang banger will drive to Indiana to get a gun - you are correct. But the straw buyers go to Indiana and acquire the weapons and bring them back to Illinois where they feed the gang bangers. This had been proven by tracing guns back to Indiana. Laws in Indiana are less strict compared to Illinois, so if they are caught, jail time in minimal.

    Sort of like Cook County taxes (Chicago proper) which are the highest around. People go out of their way to purchase stuff outside of Cook County. The recent "soda pop" tax debacle is an example of this. I had a grocery store manager tell me his receipts were down over 5K per day after the tax was enacted. Even my 82 year old mother had me buy stuff near my house for her to avoid the tax. Luckily there was a large outrage over this and it was repealed... but I digress.
     
  11. 2000SR380

    2000SR380 Member

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  12. UnleashedBeast

    UnleashedBeast Member

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    I laughed at his comment as well. Chicago politicians try so hard to defend their anti-gun stance while retaining the highest gun murder rate in the country. How, by using the, "all they do is cross state lines to buy guns and come back, undermining our regulations." Such BS! If that were true, the large cities in surrounding states would have the same gun murder rate. Guess what, they don't! If Chicago dropped the majority of their gun laws, gun deaths would go down, period! It's statistically proven, cities that are pro-gun have a far lower gun murder rate than cities that are anti-gun.

    Also, please do not confuse total gun deaths as a whole, we are focusing only on gun murder statistics. You can die by a gun and it not be murder (i.e. Suicide and accidental). Many people enter these debates, trying to look up stats online, only to use numbers that are not gun murder rates only.

    Truth again, because criminals don't care about laws. The truth is, people who are anti-gun aren't really anti-gun. They just don't want citizens to have guns, reserving that right for police and military solely. They simply want to centralize gun ownership to the governing bodies, and that is a mistake. Exactly the opposite of what our founding fathers wanted, and for good reason.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
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  13. 2000SR380

    2000SR380 Member

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    "The truth is, people who are anti-gun aren't really anti-gun. They just don't want citizens to have guns, reserving that right for police and military solely. They simply want to centralize gun ownership to the governing bodies, and that is a mistake. Exactly the opposite of what our founding fathers wanted, and for good reason."
    The Second Amendment is the second of the first 10 Amendments. The second now of 27 ratified amendments. It speaks to what our founding fathers felt was a core element of a Democracy. The First Amendment covers free speech, freedom of religion, and freedom of the press, and establishes that there will be no law respecting an establishment of religion.
    After these important items, the right of the people to keep and bear arms has been established constitutional law (in the US) for 226 years. Between 1776 and 1965 (201 years), I can find (x4) school shootings reported. (x18 deaths total). (Note: the Enoch Brown thing was 1964). After Sandy Hook, in 2012, we have had over 200 school shootings (+400 Deaths). I think the problem is clear. How to repair the problem is more daunting.
     
  14. Boston-boater

    Boston-boater Member

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    No, it's the guns. Every other country has issues with mental health and raising children to be responsible adults, they don't have the guns period. Every "law abiding gun owner" is just one trigger pull away from being a criminal. Ban them all and safety follows.
     
  15. Ponty

    Ponty Member

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    All this talk of Chicago and gangbangers? Am I missing something? How did this thread about mental health and mass shootings go here. The two aren’t remotely related. Of all the mass shootings at schools, church, Vegas, not one was committed by a gangbanger. But they were all committed by a lone individual with and AR-15.
    If you look at FL law, you have to be 21 to buy and own a pistol. But you only need to be 18 to purchase and own a long arm.
    I’ve seen on other threads and on the news of at least one Gun shop owner in WA state who is now refusing to sell any long arm to any individual under the age of 21, unless he/she is an active duty military service member or an honorably discharged veteran. He’s also proclaimed to be a stout 2nd amendment proponent and a gun owner himself.
    I commend this gun shop owner. He’s making a stand and not waiting for the beurocrats to fight over gun control means gun ban.
    It’s tiring hearing that gun control is a means to ban guns.
    Sadly,This discussion is going to go on and nothing will change and we’ll all watch or read of another mass shooting in the USA and we’ll all post how sad that it happened AGAIN!
     
  16. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
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    Really? We are all just psycho's that haven't gotten around to committing a violent crime yet?
     
  17. Great Lakes

    Great Lakes Active Member SILVER Sponsor

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    Exactly! This remark was so far off the charts it wasn’t even worth replying to.
     
  18. bobeast

    bobeast Dance the Tide SILVER Sponsor

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    I'll give them this. Liberals have ALL the easy answers. When was the last time an easy answer sufficed to solve a complex problem? Making new laws to solve gun violence is just simply intellectual laziness. They're gong to have to dig just a bit deeper if they plan on actually affecting any meaningful change.

    However, just to even further simplify it for them so they can go on about their superior lives, I have a proposal that should pretty much solve all of society's problems. We simply need a law that says "Don't do bad stuff". Don't laugh. It makes every bit as much sense as a law that says "Don't buy guns".
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  19. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

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    MProd, not being argumentative here, but could you please explain what mental health evaluations one needs to go through before buying a gun?

    I don't know about Canadian citizens but as an American who wants to visit Canada I know that handguns are "Prohibited" weapons while rifles and shotguns are "Restricted" weapons.

    Are Canadian citizens allowed to freely own handguns as we are in the USA?
     
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  20. M Prod

    M Prod Active Member SILVER Sponsor GOLD Sponsor

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    In order to legally purchase a rifle or non-restricted firearm, it’s fairly simple but not nearly as easy as in the US. You have to go through a gun safety course and apply for a firearm ownership license. Once approved, you can go to a gun store, show you are licensed to own a firearm, and purchase. Handguns and even AR-15’s are legal to own here, but are restricted weapons and much more difficult to come by. There are extensive background checks through the RCMP (and in my case FBI clearance as well) and you must divulge any info concerning whether you have sought or are seeking any sort of counseling or mental health ‘help’. Doctor’s clearances are also required. If you don’t divulge this info, they will find out. If you do have any history of seeing anyone in the psychology field, you are required to undergo mental evaluations with a doctor appointed by the Crown for the service. In addition you can bet social media accounts among many other things are looked at before anyone is issued a license to own a restricted firearm like a handgun or an AR-15. Someone like you or me would not have an issue getting a license to own these weapons. I myself own a .357, 9mm, and a .38. I also have a rifle. I just had to go through the process. That said, there is no way that kid in Florida could have ever purchased an AR-15 legally in Canada. Concealed weapons permits are pretty much unheard of here as you really need to prove you would need that for your job.
     

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