What Is An EIM Worth?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MonacoMike, Sep 22, 2019.

  1. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    2000 Cruisers 3870
    8.2 Mercs
    85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
    260hp Alpha 1
    A friend had his left panel fail on his 06 340DA. He did the Flounder Pounder fix. The SR dealer that installed the fix gave him back the old parts. The parts were checked by the dealer. He has the failed left panel, as well as the functional left side black box, and the functional right panel and black box.

    What are these parts worth to resell?

    MM
     
  2. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    2000 Cruisers 3870
    8.2 Mercs
    85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
    260hp Alpha 1
    For all the talk on here about these no one has any idea what these might be worth?

    MM
     
  3. Henry Boyd

    Henry Boyd Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 24, 2007
    Newburyport, on the peaceful and serene Merrimack
    ‘09 Sabre 38 Hardtop Express “Serenity”
    Volvo D6 w/IPS450 Pods
    I don’t know because this really is a what the market will bear, as well as timing/opportunity situation. If someone needs them and doesn’t want to pay for the conversion, than some number less than $4000.00.

    Personally had we been faced with a dead EIM on our 280 this spring, and knowing we were selling, we would have done the same thing we did with the manifolds and raw water pump; replaced with new. Or in that case bought the FP conversion kit. My feeling is that if one of the four components failed from basically old age, the remaining ones would not be far behind.

    H
     
  4. pyro

    pyro Member

    89
    Dec 4, 2018
    2008 Sundancer 290
    Twin 5.0L MPI w/ Bravo III
    Are the EIM's still available via Sea Ray dealer?

    If mine ever died, I would attempt to backwards engineer the communication protocol and rebuild the failing component(s). But I'm electrical engineer so sort of up my ally. The design has to be fairly simple. Although its still time consuming, so I pray I never have to do that!

    How often are these things failing?
     
  5. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    2000 Cruisers 3870
    8.2 Mercs
    85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
    260hp Alpha 1
    My understanding is they are not available anywhere. The supply has virtually been exhausted and the manufacture is done or gone.

    MM
     
  6. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    OK, for those of us who are teknawlogikally challenged and couldn't spell EIM if our lives depended on it, what the heck is an EIM?
     
  7. KevinC

    KevinC Well-Known Member

    Feb 25, 2011
    Long Island, NY
    2004 340 Sundancer
    Twin 8.1 V-drives
    Electronics Interface Module. On these boats (like my 340SDA) the keypad is a CAN-BUS switch pad and not individual switches. They operate like most switches in your car vehicles today. They are similar to the controls on your car steering wheel. Instead of individual wires and harnesses they send a signal to the control unit which is the EIM and the computer recognizes the command and triggers a relay.

    Much like an automotive BCM (Body Control Module) when they go bad may be only one thing does work, or perhaps nothing seems to work and sometimes the vehicles seem possessed doing weird things.

    Overall they are a fairly widely used and reliable system however when they go they need to be replaced or sent out for a specialized repair. The problem is the current installed version is no longer produced and availability it whatever is still on hand. Unfortunately the only solution is a complete replacement. Apparently Sea Ray has a new version that is up around $5-6K in cost and a retrofit version from FP that is in the $3-4K range - which from what I see is a mechanical replacement vs the CAN-BUS replacement. Neither option is optimal when only one piece needs to be replaced.

    -Kevin
     
    MonacoMike likes this.
  8. Pierpressure1

    Pierpressure1 Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    193
    Sep 8, 2015
    Richmond, VA
    1998 400 Sedan Bridge
    Cat 3116
    I was able to find one about a year ago at a dealer for $450 and passed it on to another forum member at that same price when the boat was sold.
     
  9. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    2000 Cruisers 3870
    8.2 Mercs
    85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
    260hp Alpha 1

    My friend installed the flounder pounder version with a dealer. Installed by the dealer was nearly $5000, and the client purchased the parts direct from flounder pounder so no dealer markup.

    So exactly what is valuable? Is it the EIM box? Is the functioning panel valuable as well?

    MM
     
  10. KevinC

    KevinC Well-Known Member

    Feb 25, 2011
    Long Island, NY
    2004 340 Sundancer
    Twin 8.1 V-drives
    Any functioning part has value since they are no longer made.

    -Kevin
     
  11. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    2000 Cruisers 3870
    8.2 Mercs
    85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
    260hp Alpha 1
    I told the guy that owns them that I would post them here for $1000 bucks apiece OBO. I would let several dealers know I had them and just sit back and wait for the market to come. Am I way off base here? It only cost the guy $5000 and the entire summer of boating for him to get going. If someone needed these they could be up and going in a day.

    MM
     
  12. Henry Boyd

    Henry Boyd Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 24, 2007
    Newburyport, on the peaceful and serene Merrimack
    ‘09 Sabre 38 Hardtop Express “Serenity”
    Volvo D6 w/IPS450 Pods
    The touchpad EIM System basically created a tiny network where touching that switch pad sent a message to the EIM identifying the item being switched and the state (on/off, etc). In the EIM the message was read and acted on by triggering the appropriate relay to energize/de energize the device. What this system did was digitize the helm removing possibly a dozen mechanical switches and all the wiring. Between the various devices (nav lights, hatch lift, wipers, etc) there was full wiring. But between the EIM and the switch pad there is a harness of four wires for the dozen or so digital switches, or four wires vs twenty four wires for mechanical switches.

    Now why is the FP kit so expensive? First off because the EIM technology is no longer available, or repairable, the conversion kit is the only thing that keeps a Sea Ray from becoming a large floating paperweight.

    Second of all designing this kit, as well as manufacturing it, is no trivial task. Also think of the components. Say a dozen Carling Switches, two dash panels, a dozen relays, a dozen circuit breakers and two wiring harnesses. One harness going about four feet from EIM at helm footwell to dash, the other going from helm to engine compartment.

    When I owned the 280 I considered what my alternatives would be in the event an EIM failure, and came to the conclusion that preemptively doing a similar conversion would be prohibitive. So I don’t think the kit is overpriced.

    H
     
    MonacoMike likes this.
  13. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    Wow, it seems like it was a mistake on two ends: First, for SR to put this on their boats and second, for the EIM manufacturer to stop making the parts or at least stock a several year supply of them.

    When parts become obsolete it seems it could drag down the value of the entire boat, or becoming a floating paper weight as Kevin said.

    Part of the cost of repairing my boat when we got a lightening strike was replacing a lot of the electronics and gauges on both engines on both helms. I got upgraded to a new style SR panel that had electronic connections to several functions on the boat and sounds alarms when anything goes haywire. I like having that but now I wonder what happens if it craps out.
     
  14. Henry Boyd

    Henry Boyd Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 24, 2007
    Newburyport, on the peaceful and serene Merrimack
    ‘09 Sabre 38 Hardtop Express “Serenity”
    Volvo D6 w/IPS450 Pods
    I disagree on your first point as the technology is established and exists on some level in all cars built since the late nineties. It reduced production cost making sea rays accessible to a broader market. As for your second point, you are on the money. It actually is a shame sea ray does not support older models longer. I guess the rationale was originally to make owning an old Sea Ray a pita to spur the purchase of new ones. However now that they don’t build large boats anymore, the lack of long term proprietary parts support that could have become a profit center has become a lost opportunity.

    H
     
  15. KevinC

    KevinC Well-Known Member

    Feb 25, 2011
    Long Island, NY
    2004 340 Sundancer
    Twin 8.1 V-drives
    I spoke in depth with several people in the supply chain regarding what happened. From what I pieced together the original manufacturer sold off the division and it was squired by another company. That company chose to absorb the technology and other IP and left the manufacturing of these components to the wayside. It's kind of a shame since the technology is real solid it's just the reliance on proprietary parts. I have been in touch with a couple of vendors and know of at least one solution for the smaller "peanut" switch pads and EIMs. The problem is that the market is fairly small and the upfront costs hinder developing a solution. While the replacement system is expensive, Sea Ray does have a solution so they are not abandoning their customers. Flounder Pounder took an alternate route with developing a mechanical system - while I have not seen it in person and I am not knocking it it does present the longer term issue of having multiple points of failure - each of which would be less expensive of a repair. When the original switch pads were available this was not such an issue as each remained under a boat buck for replacement and was a relatively quick and simple job.

    -Kevin
     
  16. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    2000 Cruisers 3870
    8.2 Mercs
    85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
    260hp Alpha 1
    So the options are:

    Flounder Pounder: $3-4K + installation $1.5-2K

    Sea Ray new plan: $5-6K

    My friends working parts. Cost???

    What is a fair price for them?

    MM
     
  17. ZZ13

    ZZ13 Well-Known Member

    Nov 25, 2009
    Lady's Island, SC
    2001 400 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins 450 Diamond
    How does it reduce production costs? It sounds like the power to the end item is now a relay activated by the eim, rather than a dedicated mechanical switch. Still need the same wires from the relay to the end item as you would need from a mechanical switch to the end item. But now you have a new layer called an eim. Is the switchpad/eim/relay combination less expensive than a couple dozen mechanical switches?

    Of course I probably have that all wrong. If that's the case then - nevermind.
     
  18. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    2000 Cruisers 3870
    8.2 Mercs
    85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
    260hp Alpha 1
    Here, I will just say it. The whole damn thing was just add “cool” factor...

    MM
     
  19. Henry Boyd

    Henry Boyd Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 24, 2007
    Newburyport, on the peaceful and serene Merrimack
    ‘09 Sabre 38 Hardtop Express “Serenity”
    Volvo D6 w/IPS450 Pods
    All of the switch functions are handled by two four wire harnesses on two switch pads. On the 280 one harness runs to to an EIM under the dash, the other to the engine compartment. That is opposed to twelve switches to be mounted to two panels and then 24 wires crimped with eyelets and screwed to the terminal. Assembly time is reduced and because the switchpads and EIM are assembled as modules they can be QAed before assembly on the boat. Individual switches need to be assembled and individually tested.

    H
     
  20. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    2000 Cruisers 3870
    8.2 Mercs
    85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
    260hp Alpha 1

    I am surprised the collective brain trust here does not have any opinions I can share as to what these would be worth or what he should ask for them.

    MM
     

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