What do you think of SR’s new naming schema?

M

marqbloq

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Feb 25, 2007
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Portland Oregon
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2007 320 Sundancer
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Twin 5.7 Horizon VD's
What do you think of SR’s new naming schema?

Sea Ray has decided to move from a Length Over Centerline (LOC) (also known as Length Over Deck LOD) measurement to a Length Over All (LOA). What do you think about that – pros, cons, comments?

For instance 2010 Sundancer example changes include:

260/270 is now a 290
280/290 is now a 310
320/330 is now a 350
340/350 is now a 370
 
Wait until 2012. SR will extend the swimplatforms by a foot and bump all of the models up to a 300, 320 and etc. I have stated this before and I truly believe this type of upsizing is misleading to say the least as I'm sure the 2010 pricing will reflect the "upsizing". SR and other manufacturers have done this several times over the last few years.
 
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sfergson727 said:
According to the new policy, I now own a 370!!!!!!

Personally, I think it is BS, and devalues everyone's boat in the eyes of someone who does not know any better (i.e. new boater who is in the market looking for his first cruiser)

Although they have already been doing this with their international market for quiet a while now, as some may know. I guess all models will have the same designator, whether sold in North America or the rest of the world.
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Pretty sue even that was different. My 2001 280 was or is a 315.
 
I don't think it's entirely misleading on Sea Ray's part and it's not an apples-to-apples comparison that the OP made. For example, the new 310 is A LOT bigger than my 280. Wider beam and a roomy mid-cabin seating area vs. my small mid-berth. Also, if the platform is molded then there is no issue on the naming.

Now, if they were to take an '09 280 DA and just rename it a 310 DA, that would be wrong. But we're talking different models with different dimensions, etc. Yes, the LOA might be the same in some cases but that's about it. They aren't re-branding existing models with bigger numbers.

>
 
I think they took the 290DA and renamed it a 310DA. I think the dim's are pretty much the same.

And, we'll be paying higher slip prices now for overage.
 
Anyone want to buy my 350 - I will sell it for a 320 price.
 
sfergson727 said:
I think you are thinking of the old style 2009 310 DA.
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You might be right but I have a brand new 310 with Axius parked 2 slips down from me and it makes mine look small. Maybe it's an '08 or '09 though. We're going out tonight and I'll see if I can get a picture for comparison.

Either way...I see both sides of the argument but I still don't think they are re-branding the existing models.

.
 
I am in a world of smaller boats than y'all, but while shopping I learned you can't let the moniker sway you. We were comparing a 2001 230 with a 2002 220. I thought "one foot can't make too much difference". I don' know all the dimensions, but there is a world of difference between these two. The 220 had an integrated swim platform and SR counted that in the length. My 230 is 25'6" counting the standard, but non-integrated swim platform. The overall interior space is huge compared to the 220; especially storage. So, even before settling on the 230, I stopped letting the moniker carry very much weight in shopping or comparison.
 
Hey Dave:

I have a friend in management at SR who shared that with me.

He also said that all boat production is halted; they expect to start casting boats again in late September but most likely not until October.

We talked about the economy, the boat business, SR’s approach to business and pricing, their cash position, which models will be carried forward and which will not (promised him I would not share that with anybody and I won’t so don’t ask).

Bottom line, 2010 will be a limited production year and some significant changes are coming. One of my concerns was that SR would lower its quality significantly (I’m sure you’ve read blogs about Sea-Liner replacing Sea Ray) and though there will be changes to scrub out unnecessary cost, there are no plans to turn our favorite brand into a Bayliner.

They estimate that when this economic thing is all said and done, that a full two years of “normal” inventory will not have been produced (SR only) which means much higher prices for new Sea Rays and modestly higher prices for used Sea Rays – so buy your new boats now because 2010 will be the first sticker shock year with prices according to him being raised a minimum 7% and maximum 11% (typical is 3%-5% annually).

The one sad thing I can say (which is already public knowledge) is that my favorite all time Sea Ray is truly a thing of the past (2001-2009 280DA). In fact the last 280 was produced in June and is long gone by now I am sure.

M
 
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That is lame. I always appreciated that Sea Ray used the actual boat length instead of adding in the stuff hanging off the front and back.
 
I think it's all marketing and is a little misleading. Unfortunately, due to Sea Ray's leadership position in the market, this behaviour is also pulling up the industry.

This is our first Sea Ray, having been a Regal owner before. My last boat was a Regal 2003 4260. The model started life as the 4160, moved to 4260 in 2002 and is now considered to be a 4460. The first year it became the 4460, I even had our sales rep ask to bring a new customer on our boat, as they didn't have a new one in stock. I heard the intended Admiral ask "I see this is a 4260. What's the difference between this and what we're looking at?" The sales rep replied, "Well it's pretty similar except the new one is two feet longer." He knew that was a bald faced lie. The Regal moves were made to keep it in lock step with Sea Ray.

Our current boat is a Sea Ray 560. I think that the hull came off the same mold or at least has the same dimensions as the current 580. The LOA excluding the swim platform (which is hydraulic and certainly not an integral part of the hull) is 56'4".

According to Chapman's, "LOA is measured from the fore part of the stem to the afterpart of the stern along the centerline, excluding any projections that are not part of the hull." I think that should be consistently applied by manufacturers, else it's open to the honesty of the folks in the marketing department.

...and as boughtabuoy pointed out, biggers numbers simply cost us more to dock and lock...
 
There was a post earlier where a person was looling for he SR font for his numbers and lettters... I guess most of us could use the font to redo our lenght decals on the back and sides.

“Sea Ray 260 DA=Sea Ray 280 DA”…at no cost
 
Jackie J V said:
According to Chapman's, "LOA is measured from the fore part of the stem to the afterpart of the stern along the centerline, excluding any projections that are not part of the hull." I think that should be consistently applied by manufacturers, else it's open to the honesty of the folks in the marketing department.
Click to expand...

This would make the new, 2010 310 DA a TRUE 310 since it has a molded swim platform...not a bolted on platform like the current 280 DA's. Everyone is saying the new 310 is basically a 280/290 -- I don't think so if you go by the above definition. I don't see the deception in this case at least.


2010_310.jpg

.
 
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Scott -- I think you have sound arguments on the pricing aspect. I agree that there is a potential for buyers and sellers to get screwed.

My position wasn't on price though. If they are naming a boat on the true definition of LOA then that is not deceptive in any way, shape or form. LOA doesn't care about livable/usable space -- it is, by definition, the the centerline length from end to end not including appendages. My 280 really is a 280 because you don't count the platform because it is a bolted on appendage. Your situation baffles me though -- a 37' boat that is named a 340. That's the problem - not the naming convention going forward but, as you said, the comparisons to the bad names of the past.

EDIT: I just looked at the specs of all the current year sport cruisers. Except for the 240 DA, none of the model numbers match the LOA. Most have molded platforms and the LOA is about 2-3 shorter than the model number suggests. So, I think the problem is the past numbering scheme being inconsistent. My new position -- I don't feel the new monikers are inaccurate or deceptive but the whole thing has been eff'd up and it'll be confusing for those who don't do their homework.

.
 
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In economic studies this is called "inflation"

As utility of newer boats goes down, fancy schmancy stuff and price goes up.

I have long been of the opinion that the dancers between 1999 and 2004 were the designs with the best utility of all times.
 
The '10 310 is indeed the old 290. There was a review in "Boating" from a couple of months ago. There may be a small difference in beam, but it's basically the same boat, with some different features. In all, I'm glad I bit the bullet last week on a 36 Sedan Bridge, and will be able to slip it in a 35' slip with 1' of overhang, and not have to resort to paying $100/mo more for a 40' slip. Future buyers will not be so lucky.

Regarding resale value, I think all will be evident once everything changes over. We should be able to explain (with integrity) that our 36 is really the same as a current 38 (or whatever it turns into). After all, LOA is really the bottom line, right?

Kevin
 
Kevin,

Good points. The reason I do not like Sea Ray's change (they did this in the early 90's as well) is because it makes Everyone refer to their boat as 2 or 3 feet longer. Right now, you may be able to say your boat is equivelant to the new 38. But in a few years, the guy with that 38 will say his is equivelant to a 40. The other problem is it tends to make a guy with your 36 say his is actually a 38. Which is not true, it is just equivelant to the 38 Sea Ray that replaced it.... I'm not saying you will do this, just stating it has that effect.

All you have to to is go to Yachtworld and search for say a 340 Sundancer by searching under 34 foot Sea Rays. You'll find a bunch of BROKERS listing 310 and 320's in the 34 foot category.
 
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