Were my expectations too high???

skibum said:
I am not bashing or anything, but just how did these items ever get past you while you were buying the boat? Were you looking at one in the showroom, and the dealer promised "one just like it"? Was it shipped in from another location? Did you order it from the fatory? It sounds as though the first time you ever looked at the boat was after you bought it and had it in your slip.

I heve never purchased a new boat, but when I do I'll be asking for a couple of hours on land to crawl around in and examine the actual boat that I am purchasing before putting pen to paper. I know you can't catch everything, but you should certainly have noticed gouged woodwork, cracked arches, and obviously broken stuff while you were looking at it at the time of sale.

There must be something to the story that you haven't told us.
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Yup:thumbsup:
That's a much nicer way of saying what I was thinking. It's one thing if your new boat has an engine that quits or electronics that failed, but another if there are noticable blemishes on the finish. You mentioned the big spilled gelcoat strip all around the cockpit table, WTF, if it's so bad why didn't you notice it before you bought the boat? Sounds like someone got a great deal on last year's demo model or something and is now blaming sea ray on the downside of that purchase.
 
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21 replys and the OP has not returned... :smt009:huh:

Sounds like you guys are on to something...
 
This story has a certain "what did i do?" element to it. A boat in the stated condition simply could not have been looked over by the buyer. Otherwise these items would have been detailed on a schedule and the boat left with the dealer for correction before taking delivery.

Any chance this was a deep discount boat from a bank repo lot where SR HQ guaranteed warranty?
 
I know on our 240SD the delivery included a captain that went over every system down to snapping on the covers. Now that was 3 seasons ago...but I thought they were still doing that... and yes we had a pretty good punch list after a montho or so. Did the OP say anything about a Capt'n?

well nm.. I think I'm with 'berth control' on this one too.
 
My 2 cents, sorry you have problems with your new boat as we DO NOT build this way. I agree that all these issues shouldn't have been handed to you as a new owner. I would expect your dealer will handle this with the utmost care.

2 out of 3 posts ain't bad?
 
Larry&Leisa said:
I know on our 240SD the delivery included a captain that went over every system down to snapping on the covers....
Click to expand...

It would be funny to toy with the guy and pretend you do not understand how a simple snap works. Have your wife recording it and get the expression on his fact. Pretend to turn the snap like you are screwing the snap on, you know, really let that thespian inside of you come out. If you are at the start of your orientation the captain will be thinking he’s in for a very long day.
 
All,
Thanks for the feedback...the constructive that it. :)
This was a New boat not a demo or a boat show boat.. Actually, I started out looking at a 260 which HAD been at a boat show, but switched to a 270 because of everything I noticed that would need repairing on the 260. It was more than I wanted to spend, but I decided it would be worth it for a brand new never been in the water before "me" boat. I thought I would be saving myself the trouble of getting all the wear and tear items on the 260 resolved. With the 270 I went over the entire boat and had punch list of mainly cosmetic items (cushion tears, cockpit door latch not lining up, etc). I was a little disappointed when most of the items weren't resolved before delivery as promised...nor was the boat detailed. Anyway, I was told that gelcoat on a new boat could be repaired and you would never be able to tell...unlike car paint...but you can tell. As far as damaged table and paint on the other, they were in plastic I think, and I figured them safer left alone until delivered to me. It's really unlikely the paint wasn't from the factory. It was all around the edges.
Cosmetics aside, in buying a new boat I didn't realize I would become an UNPAID member of SeaRay's quality assurance department. I didn't realize that I needed to check for missing window gaskets/seals, generator electronic interference, cracked A/C drain pans, 1.5 inch gaps around the cockpit folding cockpit door, spotlights that don't operate with remote, and a 2009 tv that isn't digital ready/compatible(Yes a know u can get a convertor, but for a brand new boat tv?) These are the dealers fault???
Apparently, this is the initiation into boating and part of the job of the new boat owner is to get everything right for the next owner. If I had known I would have saved myself some serious cash, depreciation, and years off my life and bought Used. Unlike a lot of the comments I don't like nor accept that this is ok and should be part of the whole experience.
But, given that a lot of you do, what incentive does any manufacturer have to do a better job with quality boat inspections. They have you all willing and accepting/expecting to do it for them for Free. As far as being normal...just like with a house or car, maybe you are buying the wrong cars and houses. I can tell you it's not normal for a Japanese or German car.
Eventually some Korean/Japanese company will come along and see the opportunity/market because of the lack of quality....build a better boat...from the beginning...cheaper...establish a name...and people will come. It will take awhile...people like you that make these comments will continue to buy the old, but eventually more and more younger people who don't care about an old recognized name will buy more and more. Obviously, if my boat is a typical example there is a lot of room for improvement, and not everyone is ok being recruited involuntarily for QA work. Hopefully, someone will challenge the status quo on this, and not some foreign company.
Guess What though? When I bought my last cars being brand new I didn't pay for an inspection. I didn't test the windows for leaks in a rainstorm, the doors to make sure they all opened and closed properly, nor did I test the A/C for leaks inside before buying. I guess I'm a fool who doesn't value a dollar earned so I deserve it/ asked for it.
Am I willing to work with the dealer...yes. Are they resolving the issues as fast as they can...probably. I was/am frustrated because I paid tens of thousands of dollars more for a New SeaRay believing there would be few issues. I could have bought another brand much cheaper, but decided the build quality everyone talked about was worth paying for. Because of all my issues...I thought...was hoping...that I somehow had gotten a Lemon by mistake. Surely, this wasn't SeaRay quality. I wasn't meaning to complain/ question the about the dealer so much as to find out if this was normal. Little did I know I'd be scrutinized and get my head bitten off for merely bringing up the question. I didn't realize how low expectations with boats were, or the reaction I would get in challenging them.
One person said "imagine if I had bought another brand how bad it would be". This is an excuse? 20 Issues or 50 Issues, my boat is still pulled in the shop while my 1st payment is already about due, and I've been able to use it twice. I know I know...STFU...and quit whining. Regarding it being hand built...lots of things are hand built and still work properly from the beginning...and if EVERYONE knows this is a problem then they should have a better Quality team to catch this. Granted they can't catch everything, but come on.
Yes, I'll shut up now and send off my first boat payment while SeaRay continues to fix everything in the shop. I'll just be happy that they agreed to fix everything on my new boat and settle for that. Heaven for bid I get bowled over with customer service to try and make it right, or make me feel like this is the exception to the rule.
Sorry for multiple posts intitially. I'm new and didn't know exactly where to post, nor did I realize how thoroughly you all read all the threads. I wanted some good feedback/help.
 
I appreciate where you're coming from - very frustrating - both at the Sea Ray level and the forum level. I definately see your side. Now, try to see some of the other guys' sides.

We have just met. You may have offended some Sea Ray lifers with a fairly aggressive critique of their prized posessions. You are only venting and searching for help/answers, but we haven't even said "Hi" yet. You're lucky Gary's been on qualudes for a couple of weeks. He has a way to make new guys hurt - badly - if they are anything but kind, submissive, funny, or a sexy woman (no offense, Gary - humor intended).

We have Sea Ray representatives here whose company, like many others in the "Pleasure" business are suffering - badly. They are closing plants, laying folks off, taking un-paid vacations, moving backward in seniority, re-locating, and face an uncertain future. Though your points are very valid, they hit very, very, very close to home.

You are, with very little historical experience, slamming the product brand which is the only cement which holds the collective "Us" together. You are comparing a one-at-a-time, high speed floating luxury condo to a mass-produced vehicle with hundreds of thousands of duplicate copies - repetition which justifies extreme engineering and automation.

Your case is extreme. You should be frustrated. You also put forth minimal effort prior to signing for tens of thousands of dollars worth of committment. In this case, I'm afraid you are getting out of it what you put into it. Your dealer appears to be not representing the Sea Ray community very well. They had to find a guy like you to buy a boat like that - trusting, and willing to pay in order to minimize effort. They got what they needed. You haven't yet.

This is one of life's great and tough lessons. I honestly feel terrible that you are going through your current struggles. Be firm. Be professional. Demand the items get fixed, and barter for some form of restitution. You deserve to get your 20 (?) and 100 hour services for free. Even though they are free, insist on getting all old parts back (oil filters...)

Some of us understand how you feel and why. Please try and understand why some of us have reacted the way we have. Now, can I please stop acting my age and begin to act the way I want and feel? Good luck.
 
I agree, it is the dealers responsibility to not sell a boat that is simply not ready to be sold. Sure, things can and do happen after the sale, things break, need adjusting or need some sort of refinement. This is normal for anything as complex as a boat. But when a dealer sells a boat with such obvious problems then it is clearly the dealer in the wrong.
 
Johnrb3, firstly... I would like to say congratulations on your new boat. I know this might sound a bit odd, but I went through the same thing that you have experienced and I'm convinced that your experience will turn to a lighter note soon. I bought a new SeaRay 280 back in 2005. Wow.... it really doesn't seem that long ago! I had the following problems:
#1 Generator improperly installed.... water injestion from the exhaust side. (Had to replace block).
#2 Bad ECM on the port engine.
#3 Rip in canvas top.
#4 Bad A/C Pump
#5 Bad Generator/Shore Power Switch
#6 Open circuit in aft cabin outlet.... that was a real treat running new wire!
#7 Cabin door problems
#8 a lot of other things..... that i can't remember off-hand.

Let me assure you that you will receive support. If not from your dealer, then from SeaRay. Don't be scared to mention everything that you would like fixed by the dealer. Don't compromise your integrity and character by yelling, hollering, etc. because the manner of the complaint delivery will overshadow and paralyze the willingness and the importance of fixing the problems. However, please take a healthy, pragmatic and realistic approach to what you would like done. (ie. problem with the tv not being digital is not really applicable - this is a question of component options that should have been noticed by the buyer... and is certainly not the dealer's fault unless they specified that the TV would be HDAir compatible). Cosmetics should definitely be brought up too a realistic quality standard that matches the quality fit and finish of the boat (gel coat, fittings, tables, cushions) and mechanicals up to perfect running condition. But the building of a boat is certainly different than a car and is considered more of an artform.... and potentially a very subjective artform when it comes to fit and finish. At $100K+, people tend to demand perfection. Unfortunately, perfection is a unrealistic expectation.

In short, you have a beautiful boat... (I love the design)... and it has the fit and finish beyond any of the competitors. If your experience is like mine, there will be clear skies ahead and your boat will serve you for many years to come. I too had a hard time looking at the top-notch qualities of the boat and focused on those things that really bothered me. My boat (knock on wood) has been free of any major problems for the past three years.

Again, this post isn't meant to belittle your problems, but to assure you that you soon will feel differently about your boat.

Edit: After reading the initial post again, I was urked a bit by the cockpit door. SeaRay, what is the deal there?
 
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I agree with the post about a first timer questioning the product and life style that we long time owners have enjoyed. Boats are not mass produced and we could start a whole new thread about our collective issues and experiences. As you appear to know, the dealer you are working with just hired the new General Manager. That position was open since prior to the winter boatshow in Dallas. Give him a chance to correct your issues and try to establish a reasonable working relationship with the shop people. I previously worked in sales at that store and was the General Manager for another location which MarineMax has since closed. I was the first store in Texas to receive the highest customer service award from Sea Ray and I know these guys can and will do better. I was offered the position to come back but given the industry condition, I chose to stay in my engineering field. You did not go wrong buying the Sea Ray. Your timing with this dealer and the industry were just bad and not all your fault. Givem a chance and enjoy one of the best domestically built boats around.
 
Regarding the TV... the digital television act of 2005 states that all broadcasting of analog television will end on June 12th 2009. If I only knew this alone wouldn't it seem reasonable to expect that your paying for a television upgrade that would work for longer than one month after buying it? Also the act goes further to state that after May1st 2007[/B][/B]All television devices, handheld or otherwise, shall be built to receive the new digital signal. Are they using 3 year old TVs from 2007 in my new 2009?? Is that why? Again, man y'all have low expectations. It's my fault for assuming a tv on a 2009 boat will work in 2009???
 
johnrb3 said:
Regarding the TV... the digital television act of 2005 states that all broadcasting of analog television will end on June 12th 2009. If I only knew this alone wouldn't it seem reasonable to expect that your paying for a television upgrade that would work for longer than one month after buying it? Also the act goes further to state that after May1st 2007[/b][/b]All television devices, handheld or otherwise, shall be built to receive the new digital signal. Are they using 3 year old TVs from 2007 in my new 2009?? Is that why? Again, man y'all have low expectations. It's my fault for assuming a tv on a 2009 boat will work in 2009???
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I bought a new '08 280 DA that came with an analog TV -- Sea Ray (via Marine Max) replaced it free of charge with a digital TV prior to my delivery. There's no reason they won't replace yours.

.
 
Harry at Marine Max is great. Everyone keeps blaming the dealer. I could and do see this for small stuff, but they are suppose make time to do all these fixes and QA work? Even if they had could they honestly sell the boat as new at that point? I mean if they notice issues with the A/C and replace the unit, cut and grind down the cabin door, etc...etc. Can they even sell it as new at that point? Shoot a new car gets a ding from hail damage and they can't legally sell it as new. How would that be different. And don't tell me it's because its mass produced. It's already been produced at that point.
 
Tonka Boater said:
I bought a new '08 280 DA that came with an analog TV -- Sea Ray (via Marine Max) replaced it free of charge with a digital TV prior to my delivery. There's no reason they won't replace yours.

.
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Someone else with I believe a new 2008 32DA got all the TV's replace with DTV. My 2008 38DA came with all Sharp DTV (3) and one Sharp HDTV for the cockpit. I purchased this boat from the showroom in March 2008 and the build date was I think Nov 2007 from Merritt Island Fl. I agree that a 2008 or 2009 should have DTV and if not should be upgraded at no cost
 
The dealer across the street from your store use to put 2-3 year old engines in their Crownlines and sale them as new. Boats are not the same as cars. If a boat has been wrecked, you are not required to disclose it to the buyer. It is not a matter of low expectations. You are comparing apples and oranges when you try to compare cars and boats which just highlights your inexperience.
 
If you bought a new boat, you have every right to expect it to be perfect.

However, your expectations may be unrealistic. In more than one of these threads slamming Sea Ray you seem to compare boats to cars. The boat business and the automobile business are completely different animals and the way things work is drastically different. In fact, there are really very few parallels.

Other than making you feel better, continually posting comments about your problems really does no good. My earlier response gave you an incite into how the Sea Ray system works and how to go about a resolution to your issues.

Have you made a punch list and gone over it with the Service Manager at your selling dealer yet? Have you agreed with him on a schedule for completing the necessary repairs?

You already own the boat, so it is in your best interest to develop a working relationship with your dealer to get the punch list issues resolved. On items they either won't or can't fix, give them a reasonable opportunity, then get Sea Ray Customer service involved.
 
This has been a very informative thread to read. I am presently considering my first Sea Ray purchase. This customer's reported purchase experience does nothing to encourage me to buy a new Sea Ray boat. Thank you very much for the public warning!

I find the comments that purchasing a boat is not the same as purchasing a new car interesting. Actually, thus far, I've found it very similar to buying a new car. I telephoned my local dealer to request a demo ride on the boat I am interested in buying-- a 21 foot Sport. I was told the dealership wasn't stocking this model this year. And if they were selling the boat, one would have to sign a purchase agreement before the dealer would give a test ride. WTF is up with that??? As the boat was not available locally, I visited the closest dealer 5 hours away who does have the boat, was unable to obtain a test drive due to scheduling issues on his part, and then received phone calls for two days asking me to put a down payment on the boat while I tried to find a rental boat locally to test drive. Sorry, no thanks Buddy. Actually, the poster who said buying a boat is not like buying a car is correct-- the reality is, it's way worse!

Like the original poster, I've bought new cars without having to inspect. My older car, a Toyota is 10 years old and except for oil changes and brake pads has needed zero work. I would expect a new boat to be similarly flawless. From the posted responses, this assumption is apparently incorrect and thus I'll take a pass on any new Sea Ray product.

Thanks again for the public service announcement. Caveat emptor!
 
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