Victron Smart Shunt

[Irie308]

@Irie308 Not sure if you saw this or not?

Panbos article that came out yesterday: https://panbo.com/installing-and-configuring-a-victron-battery-monitor/

I did not. This will be very helpful, thanks. Starting cleaning up my wiring this week. I am curious if the shunt being wired to the battery + will slowly drain them during the winter layup? I guess i could always remove the fuse but would be nice to see state of battery during the layup.

 

[Irie308]

I've two 1000 amp shunts that both connect to the boat's common ground buss. That is the correct configuration. The B+ to power the smart shunt should come from the battery bank it's monitoring and unswitched. Make sure that unless you have the IP67 shunts that they are mounted well away from any water or water spray. Also, if you are planning to connect them to a Victron network using the VE Direct cable make sure the cable is well secured as they do not stay in their sockets very well.
View attachment 138624

Thanks @ttmott. I also like the way you mounted.

 

[Irie308]

Got my smart shunts up and running this weekend. However I’m noticing that the Bluetooth range is not so great. Need to be in the cockpit to connect. Is it worth getting the gx screen to mount remotely?

 

[ttmott]

Got my smart shunts up and running this weekend. However I’m noticing that the Bluetooth range is not so great. Need to be in the cockpit to connect. Is it worth getting the gx screen to mount remotely?

I agree, the BT is very limited. I almost have to be right over the shunts to use it. I wanted to see the batteries from any location; smart phone and PC at home. So, I installed a Cerbo GX and also added the GX Touch Display. The big intent is to evolve into a Li battery system and large inverters and this was step one. The Cerbo has an ethernet cable connection to the WiFi router on the boat and the data is provided on the Victron Cloud and I access it from that.
Now the Cerbo has BT that is far better and more comprehensive than the BT on the shunts.

 

[dtfeld]

I agree, the BT is very limited. I almost have to be right over the shunts to use it. I wanted to see the batteries from any location; smart phone and PC at home. So, I installed a Cerbo GX and also added the GX Touch Display. The big intent is to evolve into a Li battery system and large inverters and this was step one. The Cerbo has an ethernet cable connection to the WiFi router on the boat and the data is provided on the Victron Cloud and I access it from that.
Now the Cerbo has BT that is far better and more comprehensive than the BT on the shunts.
View attachment 138895
View attachment 138894

@ttmott Does that screen have a timeout function? I'm imagining where I might mount one, but if mounted out in the cabin, I would need it to time out, or I'd have to find a cabinet to hide it in.

Also, do you have the Cerbo connected up to your N2K network? I know Raymarine had a nice Victron app able to run on the Axiom. Have you looked at or gotten this aspect going?

 

[ttmott]

@ttmott Does that screen have a timeout function? I'm imagining where I might mount one, but if mounted out in the cabin, I would need it to time out, or I'd have to find a cabinet to hide it in.

Also, do you have the Cerbo connected up to your N2K network? I know Raymarine had a nice Victron app able to run on the Axiom. Have you looked at or gotten this aspect going?

It goes dark after around 5 minutes. Touch it and it comes back. The Cerbo is connected to the NMEA 2000 network and data provided on the Garmin and Maretron devices. https://www.victronenergy.com/live/ve.can:nmea-2000:start
and
https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...unication-with-Victron-Energy-products_EN.pdf

 

[ttmott]

@ttmott Does that screen have a timeout function? I'm imagining where I might mount one, but if mounted out in the cabin, I would need it to time out, or I'd have to find a cabinet to hide it in.

Also, do you have the Cerbo connected up to your N2K network? I know Raymarine had a nice Victron app able to run on the Axiom. Have you looked at or gotten this aspect going?

Here is a clip from my system this morning from this remote PC -

 

[dtfeld]

That looks great. I'm again considering going to a 24V Victron. The 12V Magnum is just too much current for the way I have it laid out (long wires DC power wires). If I'm going to tear out and redo, going to make it better. All battery bank monitoring is on that agenda.

I have/had a Pi running the Victron firmware for testing, but if going in the boat, a decent marinized GX device of some flavor is going to be required.

 

[dtfeld]

Looking for intel from anybody that has gotten a GX device (Cerbo GX specifically) networked up specifically to Raymarine Axioms (but I assume its very similar for Garmin) and also connected up to the internet. So... @ttmott and @Irie308 or anybody else feel free to chime in.

Reading the various Victron articles on MFD integration with the GX (I'm looking at Cerbo GX), the issue seems to be that the recommended way to connect the GX device to the MFD is direct connection or in the case of Raymarine via their proprietary switch (HS5). This is due to the MFD having its own proprietary DHCP server. This would seem to get the data into the MFD so the HTML5 app can see and display the data.

However, since the GX only has one LAN connection now connecting it to the Raymarine proprietary network, I cannot connect it to any other wired network (my prefered method).

So How to get the GX connected to the boats internet network?

1. The Axioms are connected to the boats network wirelessly. Will this act as a "bridge" out to the internet?

OR

2. Can I connect the GX wirelessly to the boat network and get the Data out that way? I'm wondering if it can connect to 2 separate networks at once...wired and wireless in different IP ranges.

Simplified network Diagram (both networks contain multiple devices).

 

[ttmott]

Looking for intel from anybody that has gotten a GX device (Cerbo GX specifically) networked up specifically to Raymarine Axioms (but I assume its very similar for Garmin) and also connected up to the internet. So... @ttmott and @Irie308 or anybody else feel free to chime in.

Reading the various Victron articles on MFD integration with the GX (I'm looking at Cerbo GX), the issue seems to be that the recommended way to connect the GX device to the MFD is direct connection or in the case of Raymarine via their proprietary switch (HS5). This is due to the MFD having its own proprietary DHCP server. This would seem to get the data into the MFD so the HTML5 app can see and display the data.

However, since the GX only has one LAN connection now connecting it to the Raymarine proprietary network, I cannot connect it to any other wired network (my prefered method).

So How to get the GX connected to the boats internet network?

1. The Axioms are connected to the boats network wirelessly. Will this act as a "bridge" out to the internet?

OR

2. Can I connect the GX wirelessly to the boat network and get the Data out that way? I'm wondering if it can connect to 2 separate networks at once...wired and wireless in different IP ranges.

Simplified network Diagram (both networks contain multiple devices).

View attachment 139302

You are right Dave - there is only one Ethernet port on the Cerbo GX. I use it with my router and WiFi so I can get status of the boat anywhere on the Victron VRM Portal. Alternatively, you could connect it to the Raymarine or Garmin MFD's to make use of the Victron App. I have one of the VE Can ports on the Cerbo tied into the NMEA 2000 network on my boat so I get battery data on the MFD's but it's not to the graphics as in the App. I thought about installing a router or switch specific to the Cerbo but the Garmin (in my case) would puke on it due to a DHCP conflict.
Victron needs multiple Ethernet Ports on the Cerbo. With all that said possibly a wireless (WiFi) connection to the internet router and a hardwired ethernet to the MFD. See page 17 on this link.
https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa..._Venus_GX__Cerbo_GX__Cerbo-S_GX_Manual-en.pdf

 

[Skybolt]

To Tom's point and not sure if this helps or not but if the wired ethernet were connected to your raynet and the wifi piece connected to the boats wifi then you could have the MFD app and the wifi app at the same time.

I do this with my Fusion radio. I have the wired to a switch that is also connected to the Garmin marine network and the wifi attached to my boat's wifi. That works great for this and I see no reason it shouldn't work for you as well. Worth a try?

 

[dtfeld]

You are right Dave - there is only one Ethernet port on the Cerbo GX. I use it with my router and WiFi so I can get status of the boat anywhere on the Victron VRM Portal. Alternatively, you could connect it to the Raymarine or Garmin MFD's to make use of the Victron App. I have one of the VE Can ports on the Cerbo tied into the NMEA 2000 network on my boat so I get battery data on the MFD's but it's not to the graphics as in the App. I thought about installing a router or switch specific to the Cerbo but the Garmin (in my case) would puke on it due to a DHCP conflict.
Victron needs multiple Ethernet Ports on the Cerbo. With all that said possibly a wireless (WiFi) connection to the internet router and a hardwired ethernet to the MFD. See page 17 on this link.
https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa..._Venus_GX__Cerbo_GX__Cerbo-S_GX_Manual-en.pdf

Dumb!!! Mostly on the part of the Marine MFD Mfg's. I'm not sure why they want/need a proprietary IP range. Victron is more targeted at the alternative energy market, so not set up to deal with that.

With that being said...

I think the first plan of attack is this...

1) Tie the GX LAN into my boat network such that I get all the data out to the VRM. The VRM is pretty easily viewed on any mobile device.
2) Connect GX VE Can bus to the DeviceNet Network, such that the basic data such as voltage and SoC can display on the MFD
3. Add a GX Touch 50/70. I believe most of the graphing /data is viewable on these devices.

I'll Test (at some point), but I cant imagine it will work this way due to different IP ranges.

1. Tie the GX LAN --> HS5 --> Raymarine Axiom - Victron App should work
2. Connect GX VE Can bus to the DeviceNet Network, such that the basic data such as voltage and SoC can display on the MFD
3. Utilize USB WiFi dongle to connect to the boats internet to get data out to the VRM.

 

[dtfeld]

Evidently the marketing people didn't talk to the engineers...

 

[ttmott]

Dumb!!! .

We may think so but I see it as a liability issue for Garmin. They are very tight on who/how has access into the machine as, even though there are disclaimers, it is used as a safety related navigation device on the boat.

 

[dtfeld]

I get the liability concerns. I think you are correct.

Just looked a little closer at the Cerbo GX diagram above. Not sure exactly how to read the comments above the network router but it lists "Networking Modbus TCP Internet connectivity". Thats not what I would expect out of that LAN Port. This thing has a pretty interesting set of communication protocols...CAN bus RS485. Its like a little PLC (from the 90's)!

However, thinking about this, I'm pretty sure that you should be able to have the second set up work. The data will be communicated thru USB --> Wireless dongle, and that dongle will be handling the internet access via WiFi. Not the most robust of solutions, but I see how that could work.

 

[dtfeld]

Tom @ttmott

Is your Cerbo connected to the internet over the onboard WiFi or wired via LAN?

Second question, where are your components? I would think the Cerbo needs to be close to the engine/batteries. Then the GX touch can be mounted more remotely with HDMI/USB extension cables.

 

[ttmott]

I get the liability concerns. I think you are correct.

Just looked a little closer at the Cerbo GX diagram above. Not sure exactly how to read the comments above the network router but it lists "Networking Modbus TCP Internet connectivity". Thats not what I would expect out of that LAN Port. This thing has a pretty interesting set of communication protocols...CAN bus RS485. Its like a little PLC (from the 90's)!

However, thinking about this, I'm pretty sure that you should be able to have the second set up work. The data will be communicated thru USB --> Wireless dongle, and that dongle will be handling the internet access via WiFi. Not the most robust of solutions, but I see how that could work.

I wondered also why so many different types of communications. I suspect it is related to the evolution of their product lines and backwards compatibility of the Victron equipment. It seems to me that they should evolve to an IP based system across the board on their equipment with CAN Buss / NMEA 2000 access ports. A larger and larger component of their business is in marine electrical systems.

 

[ttmott]

Tom @ttmott

Is your Cerbo connected to the internet over the onboard WiFi or wired via LAN?

LAN - hardwired using CAT 5 to the boat's WiFi router.
The WAN on the boat is CAT 5 to a Ubiquity Bullet and antenna on the bridge roof and access to the internet is through the marina's WiFi network.

 

[dtfeld]

I wondered also why so many different types of communications. I suspect it is related to the evolution of their product lines and backwards compatibility of the Victron equipment. It seems to me that they should evolve to an IP based system across the board on their equipment with CAN Buss / NMEA 2000 access ports. A larger and larger component of their business is in marine electrical systems.

I worked for several European industrial automation outfits in the 90's and '00's. Ethernet ANYTHING is not their strong point. They were a decade behind the American options.

But yes I agree, ethernet based would be better for me.

One other question...on your Smart Shunts...what is your peak current you see during engine Start? I'm trying to decide if I need to go to the 1000A versions for the two main circuits. The battery cables in the 410 are a single 4/0, so its not likely to be carrying much more than about 300-400ish best I can figure.

 

[ttmott]

I worked for several European industrial automation outfits in the 90's and '00's. Ethernet ANYTHING is not their strong point. They were a decade behind the American options.

But yes I agree, ethernet based would be better for me.

One other question...on your Smart Shunts...what is your peak current you see during engine Start? I'm trying to decide if I need to go to the 1000A versions for the two main circuits. The battery cables in the 410 are a single 4/0, so its not likely to be carrying much more than about 300-400ish best I can figure.

I actually measured the peak before I purchased the shunts - I measured 800 amp locked rotor and 350 amp starting. I really don't see the need to concern sizing over the locked rotor current as that is quickly transitional. I know much more about the shunt system now.... It will certainly not damage the shunt. I would say that a 500 amp shunt should be more than sufficient.