We went from a Mastercraft 20' ski boat to the 39MY with no issues. Which is why I was shocked when we had issues going to the 52DB. Ended up with State Farm for a year, then switched to Travelers.
Tim
Used Sundancer Questions
- Thread starter RobC4Sea
- Start date
We went from a Mastercraft 20' ski boat to the 39MY with no issues. Which is why I was shocked when we had issues going to the 52DB. Ended up with State Farm for a year, then switched to Travelers.
Tim
RobC4Sea
New Member
- Jan 7, 2022
- 17
- Boat Info
- Boatless (Sundancer)
- Engines
- Boatless
Good points. I have a current GEICO quote of $7400 a year for a Sundancer 380. I wish it was lower, but it is what it is. I plan to ask around and check other providers. For kicks, I may see what the difference is for a 450.
The 1998 DA500 review I mentioned regarding handling was by David Pascoe, an influential marine surveyor.
https://www.yachtsurvey.com/boatreviews/sea_ray_500.htm
The training I mentioned wasn't from boat buddies (although they are family friends). These two have over 100000 miles between commercial and private vessels and licensed to 100 tons. I'm also looking at the courses offered by BoatUS and the power cruiser course from US power boating. I imagine some will be repetitive, but that's not a bad thing.
Yeah. Take what Pascoe says with a grain of salt.
scooper321
Well-Known Member
Pascoe’s book is informative but he hates any coring in a boat. So he has an air of condescension towards the likes of Sea Rays. I’d trust the results of an experienced surveyor that knows Sea Rays over Pascoe. In fact I have, twice.
The era boats youre looking at can be solid - if they were well cared for. They can also be garbage, if they weren’t.
My first was a 320DA, from land. So I understand starting on a bigger boat. I took a “staycation” the first week and practiced docking. Jumping to a 50’ boat from land seems a bit daunting. But do as people have said and rent a captain to help tutor you.
Also, I can’t imagine a 50’ not “handling” 3 footers. What does “handling” actually mean? My 320 handled them ok. I wasn’t particularly comfortable with the bouncing, the waves over the bow or the ride. But the boat (with gassers) handled it fine. My 400DB (diesels) doesn’t even notice 3’ers.
The era boats youre looking at can be solid - if they were well cared for. They can also be garbage, if they weren’t.
My first was a 320DA, from land. So I understand starting on a bigger boat. I took a “staycation” the first week and practiced docking. Jumping to a 50’ boat from land seems a bit daunting. But do as people have said and rent a captain to help tutor you.
Also, I can’t imagine a 50’ not “handling” 3 footers. What does “handling” actually mean? My 320 handled them ok. I wasn’t particularly comfortable with the bouncing, the waves over the bow or the ride. But the boat (with gassers) handled it fine. My 400DB (diesels) doesn’t even notice 3’ers.
Steve S
Well-Known Member
- Jun 5, 2007
- 3,129
- Boat Info
- 2000 400 Sedan Bridge with twin CAT 3116's
2000 340 Sundancer - SOLD!
210 Monaco 1987 - SOLD!
- Engines
- Twin Caterpillar 3116's 350 HP straight drives
Yeah, take Pascoe with a grain of salt. He was very biased towards Sea Ray products. As a generality he can make some good points but don’t take what he says as gospel.
Gofirstclass
Well-Known Member
Rob, the four videos below are all around 1 minute long. I took them on the same day on the water, and on a stretch of the Columbia River. They will give you a view of what a 550DB handles like on rough water.
scooper321
Well-Known Member
Here in the Chesapeake Bay we call that April! LOL
Gofirstclass
Well-Known Member
Now THAT comment is funny!
Pirate Lady
Well-Known Member
Pascoe hated SeaRays, never had a good review on any. That and the fact he been dead for about 7 years.
Last I heard they mixed his ashes in a Grady White boat. About the only boat he ever gave a good review. I think that boat developed blisters.
Fark that guy.
Last I heard they mixed his ashes in a Grady White boat. About the only boat he ever gave a good review. I think that boat developed blisters.
Fark that guy.
FootballFan
Well-Known Member
Lake is different than coastal area.
FootballFan
Well-Known Member
That is very high for a 38. Have you confirmed restrictions? Insuring the boat is not the challenge, it is insuring with you as the operator.
The qualifications of those providing instruction to you makes no difference to the underwriter.
yobub
Well-Known Member
@RobC4Sea You are getting direction about three separate areas, which all are of value and you need to consider:
Suitable for your needs:
I have a '98 400 DA, and that is very comfortable for 2, OK for 2+ kids, OK for 2 couples, and tight for 6 under any circumstances. With 6 you will just be on top of each other all the time. I can't see going smaller than a 400/410/420 with 6, and for your situation, I would look bigger.
Also, I'm about your height - I don't have any headroom issues on my boat, but I looked extensively at the 370 and that was much more problematic - the '98 is the only year where the arch was high enough for me to stand under at the helm.
Working remotely: I lived on my boat roughly 5 days a week last summer, working remotely (video conference calls, etc.). Typically 3 weekdays and the weekends, every single week April through October. I was by myself during the week, and my wife came up on weekends. Working remotely is fine if you are by yourself - you can set up a workable space in the cabin. If someone else was on the boat with me it would have been doable but a bit of a challenge. Any more than one other person - forget it. I proved to myself that I could do it full time, but would look for something bigger with a different layout if my wife and I were both on board full time while I'm working.
Learning Curve:
I had 30+ years of boating experience before I bought my 400. I stepped up from a 24' to a 40' and it was reasonable. The maintenance is much more of a learning curve than the handling. If you are starting with no boating experience, any boat is going to have a significant learning curve. I agree that the sedan bridge layout will have more windage, but you are going to just have to learn whatever you buy.
We had a dock neighbor a couple of years ago who was brand new to boating and bought a brand new 40' Presitge. Must have had some serious $$. He didn't know anything about it when he bought it, but he learned quickly and used it all the time - weekends down to the city, across the lake, etc. Him, his wife, young daughter. He just went for it. That had thrusters and a joystick, and it really made his life easier. With no boating experience, you should really consider finding a boat with thrusters.
You have said that you will get training, and that will help. It's going to be hard to do, but the key will be to give yourself cycles without family and friends on the boat, to learn and get familiar with it before you start entertaining. Also, as someone said above, know your limitations.
Maintenance and Costs:
If you have $$ you can pay someone to do everything, all the cleaning, all the maintenance, all the repairs. It will be really expensive. If you are willing to learn you can do a bunch of the work yourself. That will reduce your outlay to only being expensive, instead of really expensive. At one point I broke down my maintenance costs in another post. I don't remember them exactly, but let me give it a guess:
Summer dockage $3500
Winter Storage $6000
Insurance $1000 (great lakes. I got a FL quote when I got my boat and it was $4k)
Annual Maintenance (Oil change, filters, etc) Maybe $500 - $1000 doing everything myself
Annual minor repairs (replacing a blige pump, faucet, something electrical, whatever) $500-1000. Something is always breaking on a 20 year-old boat.
Annual major maintenance and repairs - this is the wild card - this is where I have to pay the yard or pay a Cat tech to troubleshoot or fix something: anywhere between $2000 and $10,000 a year, but could be more. This is engine maintenance that I can't do, bottom paint, fiberglass work, anything significant. It can easily go higher even without something as drastic as an engine overhaul. A couple of years ago I replaced the generator - about $13k all together. New canvas - $8-10k.
A boat of this size has all of the systems of a home (stove, refrigerator, HVAC, TVs, etc.) and all of the systems of a boat, and sometimes 2 or 3 of each. And since they are on a boat bouncing around in 3-foot waves, they take more abuse and cost much more than a comparable system at home.
Your costs will vary based on where you are and how much you can do. By any measure, a 20-year-old boat in a harbor is going to have high maintenance costs. You can plan out your dockage, storage (if applicable), and insurance. I would say to plan for $10k a year beyond that, and you have to be prepared for $20k without getting upset.
- Which boats are suitable for your needs?
- What will the learning curve be?
- What do you need to know about the boats themselves (maintenance, costs, etc.)
Suitable for your needs:
I have a '98 400 DA, and that is very comfortable for 2, OK for 2+ kids, OK for 2 couples, and tight for 6 under any circumstances. With 6 you will just be on top of each other all the time. I can't see going smaller than a 400/410/420 with 6, and for your situation, I would look bigger.
Also, I'm about your height - I don't have any headroom issues on my boat, but I looked extensively at the 370 and that was much more problematic - the '98 is the only year where the arch was high enough for me to stand under at the helm.
Working remotely: I lived on my boat roughly 5 days a week last summer, working remotely (video conference calls, etc.). Typically 3 weekdays and the weekends, every single week April through October. I was by myself during the week, and my wife came up on weekends. Working remotely is fine if you are by yourself - you can set up a workable space in the cabin. If someone else was on the boat with me it would have been doable but a bit of a challenge. Any more than one other person - forget it. I proved to myself that I could do it full time, but would look for something bigger with a different layout if my wife and I were both on board full time while I'm working.
Learning Curve:
I had 30+ years of boating experience before I bought my 400. I stepped up from a 24' to a 40' and it was reasonable. The maintenance is much more of a learning curve than the handling. If you are starting with no boating experience, any boat is going to have a significant learning curve. I agree that the sedan bridge layout will have more windage, but you are going to just have to learn whatever you buy.
We had a dock neighbor a couple of years ago who was brand new to boating and bought a brand new 40' Presitge. Must have had some serious $$. He didn't know anything about it when he bought it, but he learned quickly and used it all the time - weekends down to the city, across the lake, etc. Him, his wife, young daughter. He just went for it. That had thrusters and a joystick, and it really made his life easier. With no boating experience, you should really consider finding a boat with thrusters.
You have said that you will get training, and that will help. It's going to be hard to do, but the key will be to give yourself cycles without family and friends on the boat, to learn and get familiar with it before you start entertaining. Also, as someone said above, know your limitations.
Maintenance and Costs:
If you have $$ you can pay someone to do everything, all the cleaning, all the maintenance, all the repairs. It will be really expensive. If you are willing to learn you can do a bunch of the work yourself. That will reduce your outlay to only being expensive, instead of really expensive. At one point I broke down my maintenance costs in another post. I don't remember them exactly, but let me give it a guess:
Summer dockage $3500
Winter Storage $6000
Insurance $1000 (great lakes. I got a FL quote when I got my boat and it was $4k)
Annual Maintenance (Oil change, filters, etc) Maybe $500 - $1000 doing everything myself
Annual minor repairs (replacing a blige pump, faucet, something electrical, whatever) $500-1000. Something is always breaking on a 20 year-old boat.
Annual major maintenance and repairs - this is the wild card - this is where I have to pay the yard or pay a Cat tech to troubleshoot or fix something: anywhere between $2000 and $10,000 a year, but could be more. This is engine maintenance that I can't do, bottom paint, fiberglass work, anything significant. It can easily go higher even without something as drastic as an engine overhaul. A couple of years ago I replaced the generator - about $13k all together. New canvas - $8-10k.
A boat of this size has all of the systems of a home (stove, refrigerator, HVAC, TVs, etc.) and all of the systems of a boat, and sometimes 2 or 3 of each. And since they are on a boat bouncing around in 3-foot waves, they take more abuse and cost much more than a comparable system at home.
Your costs will vary based on where you are and how much you can do. By any measure, a 20-year-old boat in a harbor is going to have high maintenance costs. You can plan out your dockage, storage (if applicable), and insurance. I would say to plan for $10k a year beyond that, and you have to be prepared for $20k without getting upset.
RobC4Sea
New Member
- Jan 7, 2022
- 17
- Boat Info
- Boatless (Sundancer)
- Engines
- Boatless
It is high, but that is based on the size and presumably coastal waters and it is with me as the primary operator. If I complete the additional training through BoatUS, others they offer discounts.
Check with an insurance broker. (We use IMIS -- now Gowrie -- but there are many to choose from.)
OTOH, that whole Florida thing is a thing. We're paying approx 75% more than we would usually pay for insurance here on the Chesapeake.... because we picked up our boat in Florida... during the hurricane season. Had it been winter, we could have gotten a relatively inexpensive winter-time rider on a much less expensive Chesapeake-centric policy.
-Chris
RobC4Sea
New Member
- Jan 7, 2022
- 17
- Boat Info
- Boatless (Sundancer)
- Engines
- Boatless
I appreciate those estimates. I've been divorced for 5+ and would spend the majority of weekday time by myself for part of the year. On weekends I would be taking it out regularly. Summers, my 3 kids would hang out. If I stick with the plan to dock in Florida, I'd spend most of the winter there too. (I'd move there but the youngest 2 are still in school). We've done a similar thing (as far as space goes) by spending summers in a 36' camper. There's tradeoffs for everything.
I plan to learn as much self maintenance as I can as a matter of practicality and necessity. Once I settle on a boat, I'll go hunting for all the tech manuals I can find. Boating is such an odd thing- from a practical perspective you never get an equitable ROI, so you have to balance that against how much you enjoy it. For me I've loved every excursion I've been on and would prefer to spend more time cruising than not.
I plan to learn as much self maintenance as I can as a matter of practicality and necessity. Once I settle on a boat, I'll go hunting for all the tech manuals I can find. Boating is such an odd thing- from a practical perspective you never get an equitable ROI, so you have to balance that against how much you enjoy it. For me I've loved every excursion I've been on and would prefer to spend more time cruising than not.
brewster16
Well-Known Member
Rob I just got done reading through this thread. I want to encourage you to pursue the boating dream....it's awesome! But you need to know that what you are contemplating is going to be much more expensive than you may realize. Buying the boat is the least of your expenses and buying a big but old boat is going to cost you much more than you can imagine right now. Don't kid yourself.....Anyone on this forum will corroborate this.
RobC4Sea
New Member
- Jan 7, 2022
- 17
- Boat Info
- Boatless (Sundancer)
- Engines
- Boatless
@brewster16 I agree 100%, the boat purchase cost is the easiest factor. I'm trying to get a sense of all the other operating and maintenance costs that go along with it. Some I can ballpark based on what others are spending but I won't actually know until I settle on a specific boat and know it's condition, engines etc. Diesel fuel cost is also a factor. My sister spent around $5k in fuel when they took her 40 yacht from Daytona to Galveston.
Strypes
Well-Known Member
- Dec 10, 2015
- 1,283
- Boat Info
- Sea Ray 400 Sedan Bridge
Boston Whaler 235 Conquest
- Engines
- Twin Caterpillar 3116
Mercury Verado 225 4-Stroke
Is the Sundancer &/or Sea Ray brand all that you're considering?
RobC4Sea
New Member
- Jan 7, 2022
- 17
- Boat Info
- Boatless (Sundancer)
- Engines
- Boatless
I've always liked the Sundancer build. I'm not a fan of fly bridge boats. I'm also a cruiser rather than a go fast guy.
Good. You will need to fix or replace something every day. Well... OK... that's an exaggeration. A little.
Fuel costs can be pretty low, actually. If you run long distance on plane, high. If you run short distances on plane, not so bad. If you run short distances and sometimes at trawler speed -- smell the roses along the way -- it can be almost "inexpensive" (comparatively). We can go almost a whole summer around here with only a couple fill-ups... partly because likely places to go aren't far away. Imagine a 5 mile run to a pleasant anchorage...
(Yes, it was expensive to bring the boat up from Ft. Myers on plane, though. Still, that was a rare trip, and I didn't have much discretion about speeds.)
-Chris
