Unlit markers

[HawkX66]

How often do you come across unlit markers? We were coming back from dinner up the York River last night in the dark and a slight fog. All the red and green channel markers were doing their thing, but we came across two dark ones that jumped out of the dark. I didn't like getting surprised like that. It wasn't obvious on my chart plotter. I was only going about 8-10 knots, but if we tagged one we'd have been done for.

 

[techmitch]

How often do you come across unlit markers? We were coming back from dinner up the York River last night in the dark and a slight fog. All the red and green channel markers were doing their thing, but we came across two dark ones that jumped out of the dark. I didn't like getting surprised like that. It wasn't obvious on my chart plotter. I was only going about 8-10 knots, but if we tagged one we'd have been done for.

Been following your thread but without going back, what plotter/card/version do you have?

 

[HawkX66]

Been following your thread but without going back, what plotter/card/version do you have?

It's a Raymarine Element 9hv that I bought new last year. Navionics card I believe.
I think it was the red markers with the red triangle on top on the chart when I went back to look at it tonight.

 

[blaster]

A few years back a PW county fire boat hit an unlit marker at night near the occoquan. Horrible tragedy. I just don’t go fast at night since I saw the aftermath of that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...ncident/c4dd60d2-5306-4175-a0c5-7ce8bdecd4fa/

 

[Lazy Daze]

It's not uncommon to find unlit markers, at all. However, they should be painted with reflective paint. The question, of course, is whether the small amount of light from the nav lights will be enough to reflect well enough for you to see it. A handheld spotlight (or even a halfway decent flashlight) will help - using your chart, you'll know when you're getting near and can use the flashlight to spot it. IF, of course, the software is up to date on the plotter... and the markers haven't recently been moved.

 

[HawkX66]

A few years back a PW county fire boat hit an unlit marker at night near the occoquan. Horrible tragedy. I just don’t go fast at night since I saw the aftermath of that.

Would be so easy to do. I said it wasn't obvious on the chart plotter, but looking at it it now it seems to be they should have been if the ones I pointed out are them. I had my older son navigating while I was piloting. I couldn't get the plotter to dim so I couldn't keep looking at it. User error...

 

[HawkX66]

It's not uncommon to find unlit markers, at all. However, they should be painted with reflective paint. The question, of course, is whether the small amount of light from the nav lights will be enough to reflect well enough for you to see it. A handheld spotlight (or even a halfway decent flashlight) will help - using your chart, you'll know when you're getting near and can use the flashlight to spot it. IF, of course, the software is up to date on the plotter... and the markers haven't recently been moved.

Good to know. I only saw two, but looking at my path it looks like there might have been a third further off my starboard.

 

[ttmott]

Most of the markers in our area are unlit and reveal that fact on the charts. If I'm in unfamiliar water the boat is idle speed with radar on, keen eye on the charts and a spot light to illuminate each and every marker that is close to our heading. Same goes for those fishing boats at night without any lights and those sailing vessels who throw an anchor in the channel - it happens..

 

[HawkX66]

Most of the markers in our area are unlit and reveal that fact on the charts. If I'm in unfamiliar water the boat is idle speed with radar on, keen eye on the charts and a spot light to illuminate each and every marker that is close to our heading. Same goes for those fishing boats at night without any lights and those sailing vessels who throw an anchor in the channel - it happens..

So it's a normal thing and I'll just have to get used to it. I was going about as slow as I could safely. It gets a little choppy in the York sometimes which makes navigating straight at slower speeds difficult.
My son and I were constantly communicating. It was the first time night navigating for both of us. Thankfully these lessons learned were cheap.
I did tell my wife we'll have radar next year... She happily agreed.

 

[yobub]

On my area of Lake Michigan we have lots of unlit and uncharted buoys. Local beaches put them out for their sailing clubs all up and down the shore and they stay out all summer. They typically have reflective tape but no lighting. Most are the cylinder swim area type buoys but sometimes they are small balls. Up in Wisconsin there are small round fish net bouys that are hard to see during the day, let alone at night. Radar helps but isnt perfect. Local knowledge helps alot so you know what you might come across and what to be looking for.

 

[sbw1]

When you transit an area at night the chart plotter is not the gold standard for getting from point A to point B. It is radar. The chart gives you the general idea of where you are and radar tells you exactly where you are and what’s around you. We have lots of unlighted channel markers in the Grand Haven area. You need to become proficient in the use of radar to be safe on Lake Michigan and the local rivers after dark falls.

 

[HawkX66]

I understand. Charts show what was there "yesterday." Radar and eyes show what's there "now." Thanks guys.

 

[Ike]

Keep in mind, if you come across an unlit marker that is supposed to be lit, report it to the Coast Guard. Usually, as has been said before, some aids to navigation are not lighted, but that should be indicated on your charts. Unfortunately some buoys such as mooring buoys, private buoys, etc are not marked. Go slow. Use a spotlight. If your boat is big enough to support radar, and you travel a lot at night, get radar.

 

[ttmott]

So it's a normal thing and I'll just have to get used to it. I was going about as slow as I could safely. It gets a little choppy in the York sometimes which makes navigating straight at slower speeds difficult.
My son and I were constantly communicating. It was the first time night navigating for both of us. Thankfully these lessons learned were cheap.
I did tell my wife we'll have radar next year... She happily agreed.

No doubt it's unnerving especially when conditions make it even more difficult. What I did when we had paper charts and those slow CRT (Cathode Ray Tube) chart plotter / radars is before getting under way review our course and note hazards so taking eyes off the front of the boat is minimized. Low light binoculars have really come down in price and would be a good tool in the tool box. Today radar is getting so good that it would be difficult for me to be without it; it is invaluable for safe night time navigation. But as Regan said about Gorbachev "trust but verify".... Always verify your instruments with a secondary means.
A quick story - We were coming from Mangrove Cay in the Abaco at late dusk towards West End in Grand Bahama heading South Southwest in my 400 Sundancer. Weather was rough and it was raining, raining in sheets coming out of the South. Now coming out of the flats you have to navigate through a series of rock outcroppings then turn left (east) to make it into the West End marina. There is a lit marker on the west set of rocks and you cross close to those rocks. It was dark, rough, and raining coming through the rocks and no way could I see that marker. My 400DA had the original Raymarine Pathfinder radar and that green CRT radar/plotter. I couldn't make out what the radar was telling me and was trying to adjust gain and clutter managing to mess it up even more. I also had my IPad out and the charts up purely on the IPad's GPS. We also had the paper charts on the cabin door top trying to correlate the IPad to them actually with some success. We came through those rocks on marginal radar, and IPad, and paper charts and head into blue water coming over the top of the boat; it was flat scarry. We measured distance to clear the rocks then some and correlated that to time and speed - then timed a straight heading then turned 90 degrees now taking those huge waves broadside; actually we were crabbing to get into West End. After fifteen or twenty minutes we saw the dim lights of the marina's inlet. That lesson changed how we prepare for a trip.

 

[tc410]

FLIR…. Get a FLIR. Mine works great seeing everything at night. This is heading from Grand back to Jupiter on a moonless night. You can see every wave and ripple.

 

[HawkX66]

No doubt it's unnerving especially when conditions make it even more difficult. What I did when we had paper charts and those slow CRT (Cathode Ray Tube) chart plotter / radars is before getting under way review our course and note hazards so taking eyes off the front of the boat is minimized. Low light binoculars have really come down in price and would be a good tool in the tool box. Today radar is getting so good that it would be difficult for me to be without it; it is invaluable for safe night time navigation. But as Regan said about Gorbachev "trust but verify".... Always verify your instruments with a secondary means.
A quick story - We were coming from Mangrove Cay in the Abaco at late dusk towards West End in Grand Bahama heading South Southwest in my 400 Sundancer. Weather was rough and it was raining, raining in sheets coming out of the South. Now coming out of the flats you have to navigate through a series of rock outcroppings then turn left (east) to make it into the West End marina. There is a lit marker on the west set of rocks and you cross close to those rocks. It was dark, rough, and raining coming through the rocks and no way could I see that marker. My 400DA had the original Raymarine Pathfinder radar and that green CRT radar/plotter. I couldn't make out what the radar was telling me and was trying to adjust gain and resolution managing to mess it up even more. I also had my IPad out and the charts up purely on the IPad's GPS. We also had the paper charts on the cabin door top trying to correlate the IPad to them actually with some success. We came through those rocks on marginal radar, and IPad, and paper charts and head into blue water coming over the top of the boat; it was flat scarry. We measured distance to clear the rocks then some and correlated that to time and speed - then timed a straight heading then turned 90 degrees now taking those huge waves broadside; actually we were crabbing to get into West End. After fifteen or twenty minutes we saw the dim lights of the marina's inlet. That lesson changed how we prepare for a trip.

Scary situation for sure. Glad you were able to keep away from the rocks. Normally I would have been much more prepared with a course plotted and known dangers mapped out etc. To be honest, daylight savings bit me. When we left the dock after dinner it was still light. Dark descended quickly.
At least now I have time to find a solution. The search is on... I have a spoiler to mount to so I can go with either an open or closed array. From the little I know I'm leaning towards the open.

 

[DougLas]

Back in the 90s a boat hit a unlight electric power tower in the Sandusky bay after dark. The tower was not light at the base for navigation purposes. The navigation lights were not on when the crash happened. Four out of the ten on board lost their lives in the crash. They had all been boaters for years. So this wasn't a new boater error. The Captain only had 2 beers all night. Sad to say the Captain was found guilty for the accident by the power company, claiming he had been drinking. Even though there was only minut traces of alcohol in his blood when checked. So one can be in the wrong "the power company with navigation lights out" and still get away with it when there is money backing them.

 

[HawkX66]

My Raymarine Element 9 hv is radar ready. They suggest the Quantum, not 2, because it doesn't support Doppler. It works, but is wasted money apparently.
With the limited amount I need radar, I wonder if using my 9" display will suffice. I'd have to use a split screen with the chart plotter so that would shrink it down even more. My suspicion is that I really should pick up an Axiom 12 to use as a dedicated display. It seems like closed versus open array would be right for my boating needs also.

 

[ttmott]

My Raymarine Element 9 hv is radar ready. They suggest the Quantum, not 2, because it doesn't support Doppler. It works, but is wasted money apparently.
With the limited amount I need radar, I wonder if using my 9" display will suffice. I'd have to use a split screen with the chart plotter so that would shrink it down even more. My suspicion is that I really should pick up an Axiom 12 to use as a dedicated display. It seems like closed versus open array would be right for my boating needs also.


View attachment 116028

Doesn't your chartplotter have the capability to overlay the charts and radar together so you don't need to split the screen? Even my ancient Raymarine Pathfinder did years ago.

 

[HawkX66]

Doesn't your chartplotter have the capability to overlay the charts and radar together so you don't need to split the screen? Even my ancient Raymarine Pathfinder did years ago.

I'm sure it does then. I saw the overlay term used several times. My lack of knowledge... Trying to remedy that now. So the 9" should be ok then which is great. Now I'm on the hunt for a wireless dome.