Unions are good?

Yes, they are great for raising the prices of everything. I personally know of a building project in the 1980’s that was quoted at over $500,000 and it was done non union for a little over $100,000.
 
What is it they say...

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
 
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So did the kid get the patch?
 
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We do everything with PLA's here in Mass (project labor agreements) that says jobs with your tax dollars must use unions......20% increase to build schools, etc.......
 
What we need as American workers and business owners is for the AFL-CIO to go organize labor in China. :thumbsup:
 
My dad was a union guy for 30+ yrs, as an electrician. The only thing I see that it got him, was the initial training, and a few good jobs. There were many lean times where he still had to pay dues (I always wondered where these ended up) and had to travel 8+ hrs away for work. It was not a good thing in my mind watching him as I grew up. I think back in the late 1800's/early 1900's Unions were good, but they're outdated since about the 70's.

And yes, SEIU is affiliated with Acorn.

These union guys need a serious attitude adjustment here. It's a Boy Scout working on his Eagle project for god's sake with 250 hrs already invested in the project.
 
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VTSeaRay said:
My dad was a union guy for 30+ yrs, as an electrician. The only thing I see that it got him, was the initial training, and a few good jobs. There were many lean times where he still had to pay dues (I always wondered where these ended up) and had to travel 8+ hrs away for work. It was not a good thing in my mind watching him as I grew up. I think back in the late 1800's/early 1900's Unions were good, but they're outdated since about the 70's.
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I see my son going through the same thing. He got involved in a union carpentry company about 8 years ago while still going to school. Well he liked the work and stayed with it, despite my attempts to talk him out of it. So now he has his journeymen’s and he is out of work more often than he is working. He pays his union dues and they do not get him work. Unions may have had a benefit years ago, but not anymore, especially when the work force is loading with illegal’s ready to work for meager wages.
 
Once again, without unions, your airline pilots would be flying 16 hours per day (which is our work day limit, but only allowed to fly 8 of those hours - the rest is schlepping bags through airports, walk-arounds, pre-flight planning - all without pay). Your airline pilots would be sleeping in the airport or aboard the plane before your 0500 departure to the opposite coast, like some commuter pilots are doing now. There are dozens of other safety guidelines written into contracts between the flight crews and the companies that otherwise would be un-controlled.

Progress is beginning to be made as the situation worsens and people are starting to die. Since 9/11 contracts have been devastated. The pilots have been held financially responsible for making up for the majority of the losses airlines have experienced. United pilots commonly work 3-day trips for less than 5 hours pay. Pilots are taking off from wrong runways (killing all aboard except 1 - the pilot at the controls), landing on taxiways, over-flying destinations, falling out of the sky while wondering about the effects of icing, and making numerous other mistakes, most undetected, while losing sleep due to working conditions, financial ruin, family strains...

Agreed, the time/place for blue collar labor unions may have come and gone. The unions ensured slave-like working conditions were exposed and many are federally regulated. But to paint with a broad brush and say they are all outdated is not, IMO, a fair or accurate statement.

Just so you know:
Airline pilots only get paid when the doors are closed and the aircraft is away from the gate.
Many major airline pilots fly 3, 4, 5, or even 6 legs a day. 14 hour days are not abnormal. Those flying 6 legs in 14 hours will normally make 5 - 6 hours pay.
Most major airline pilots' pensions have been liquidated. They now must start over saving for retirement through 401K plans - in the middle of their careers.
Most major airline pilots' pay was cut between 40 and 50% in the years after 9/11.
Currently, major airline pilots' pay is at the same level as the early 90's - NOT adjusted for inflation (Less than 40% of previous purchasing power).
Airline pilot stress levels are at an all time high, and the mistakes are mounting.

International airline pilots have better pay rates per hour worked, but deal with foreign disease, terrorist attacks, muggings, kidnappings, and they constantly fly on the back side of the clock.

The real problem is not the current conditions as much as it is the future of air travel as the more qualified applicants leave the job and choose other, more desirable professions. Where are your kids flying for Christmas? Should you be afraid? Not yet. Incidents are still rare, but very rapidly on the increase.
 
I have always been of the mindset that if you are unhappy with your present working conditions its time to look for another job. I would bet that anyone with the necessary intellect, talent and skill to become an airline pilot could also be successful in a host of other endeavors.
 
Hampton said:
Once again, without unions, your airline pilots would be flying 16 hours per day (which is our work day limit, but only allowed to fly 8 of those hours - the rest is schlepping bags through airports, walk-arounds, pre-flight planning - all without pay). Your airline pilots would be sleeping in the airport or aboard the plane before your 0500 departure to the opposite coast, like some commuter pilots are doing now. There are dozens of other safety guidelines written into contracts between the flight crews and the companies that otherwise would be un-controlled.

Progress is beginning to be made as the situation worsens and people are starting to die. Since 9/11 contracts have been devastated. The pilots have been held financially responsible for making up for the majority of the losses airlines have experienced. United pilots commonly work 3-day trips for less than 5 hours pay. Pilots are taking off from wrong runways (killing all aboard except 1 - the pilot at the controls), landing on taxiways, over-flying destinations, falling out of the sky while wondering about the effects of icing, and making numerous other mistakes, most undetected, while losing sleep due to working conditions, financial ruin, family strains...

Agreed, the time/place for blue collar labor unions may have come and gone. The unions ensured slave-like working conditions were exposed and many are federally regulated. But to paint with a broad brush and say they are all outdated is not, IMO, a fair or accurate statement.

Just so you know:
Airline pilots only get paid when the doors are closed and the aircraft is away from the gate.
Many major airline pilots fly 3, 4, 5, or even 6 legs a day. 14 hour days are not abnormal. Those flying 6 legs in 14 hours will normally make 5 - 6 hours pay.
Most major airline pilots' pensions have been liquidated. They now must start over saving for retirement through 401K plans - in the middle of their careers.
Most major airline pilots' pay was cut between 40 and 50% in the years after 9/11.
Currently, major airline pilots' pay is at the same level as the early 90's - NOT adjusted for inflation (Less than 40% of previous purchasing power).
Airline pilot stress levels are at an all time high, and the mistakes are mounting.

International airline pilots have better pay rates per hour worked, but deal with foreign disease, terrorist attacks, muggings, kidnappings, and they constantly fly on the back side of the clock.

The real problem is not the current conditions as much as it is the future of air travel as the more qualified applicants leave the job and choose other, more desirable professions. Where are your kids flying for Christmas? Should you be afraid? Not yet. Incidents are still rare, but very rapidly on the increase.
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John,

You're right, and my son is (was) in the same boat when he was flying for Delta Connection. He's been out of work since February, so I'd forgotten about all that. I'm not sure it's helped him at all though. He's been out of work, for 8 months, and only worked for 1 yr prior to that. The FAA seems to dictate most of the rules the airlines have to follow for the industry. I'm not sure or familiar with what the unions do to work with the FAA rules however.

-VtSeaRay
 
My company across the board took a 10% paycut this year going to a 4 1/2 day pay week. We will be going to a 4 day pay week soon (20% pay cut)........My ex wife is a teacher and got her 3% raise last year and this year too. How come all unions/governments are exempt from direct pay cuts?
 
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