Unable to align 496 engine on 280 Sundancer

Espos4 said:
It’s obviously too late now, but I wonder what the alignment looked like before the old gimble bearing was removed?

As far as the new bearing, make sure it is seated completely, properly and square in the bore.

As you can imagine, if the bearing is cock-eyed, it’ll throw everything out of wack.

I would even remove the new bearing and be sure there aren’t any obstructions to it sitting correctly before making such a drastic change to the mounts.
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I think the main reason I had such a hard time getting it off, is the alignment was off with the original gimbal bearing. As I mentioned, looking in without the bearing installed, the coupler was definitely too high, so the bearing is likely installed correctly. With the gimbal ring off, it's pretty easy to view the coupler, and see how it sits relative to the bearing carrier. BTW, I used an actual installation tool, not a block of wood, or some homemade device, so I'm confident in my installation. I've heard these things are sometimes installed out of alignment from the factory, but this would be an extreme case.
 
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Have you rotated the engine 180 deg to confirm the coupler runout is ok? Maybe something there got tweaked when you were struggling with the drive. It should not change when rotating the flywheel.
 
Danny Troy said:
I think the main reason I had such a hard time getting it off, is the alignment was off with the original gimbal bearing. As I mentioned, looking in without the bearing installed, the coupler was definitely too high, so the bearing is likely installed correctly. With the gimbal ring off, it's pretty easy to view the coupler, and see how it sits relative to the bearing carrier. BTW, I used an actual installation tool, not a block of wood, or some homemade device, so I'm confident in my installation. I've heard these things are sometimes installed out of alignment from the factory, but this would be an extreme case.
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You really should figure this out. Shimming is not a good idea as it may be masking a serious underlying problem. Depending on what that is, it could be something simple, or it could possibly lead to a catastrophic failure of the engine, drive or even compromise the hull assembly. The safety of yourself and your family and friends should be top priority. Small lake or not.

If someone were to do that to your car, most would consider it a rig job and call them a hack or a butcher.
 
I'll take a closer look at it and if I can't figure it out I'll I'll have my marina take a look at it. This will probably have to wait till the spring though. No fun working on it with the shrink wrap on, using a small zipperd door to get in.
 
Not sure why you jumped in there. Maybe a vibration or just a preventative maintenance thing? As mentioned, don't leave out the simple things. A coupler starting to fail will give a vibration and can more than likely be identified with a simple runout test. Shimming the front mounts is not something that is normally required. Hopefully you can identify the problem before lifting the engine.
 
With the age of your coupler, sounds like a prime suspect. Since I am pulling my engines myself next week for steering pin seals, I asked my mechanic about couplers.

He told me he can look at the teeth splines on a couple and tell if it is worn. Most of them wear from improper alignment.

Do you know the marina mechanic well enough that he could just take a quick look in there? That would be easy and would let you know if an engine pull and $400+ coupler is due.
 
DWABoat said:
With the age of your coupler, sounds like a prime suspect. Since I am pulling my engines myself next week for steering pin seals, I asked my mechanic about couplers.

He told me he can look at the teeth splines on a couple and tell if it is worn. Most of them wear from improper alignment.

Do you know the marina mechanic well enough that he could just take a quick look in there? That would be easy and would let you know if an engine pull and $400+ coupler is due.
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All sounds good, but I'd like to first test it by testing the coupler by turning over the engine. Don't know if I'll be motivated enough to do it before Spring. My marina is luckily my neighbor, considering i can see it looking out my back window. I think they are competent enough to give me a diagnosis, but right now they're pretty much closed for the Winter.
 
Did you replace the gimbal bearing and did you use the correct tool to install it?
 
DWABoat said:
With the age of your coupler, sounds like a prime suspect. Since I am pulling my engines myself next week for steering pin seals, I asked my mechanic about couplers.

He told me he can look at the teeth splines on a couple and tell if it is worn. Most of them wear from improper alignment.

Do you know the marina mechanic well enough that he could just take a quick look in there? That would be easy and would let you know if an engine pull and $400+ coupler is due.
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As long as it apart, install the missing grease fitting to prevent corrosion of the pin and bushing.
 
Bt Doctur said:
As long as it apart, install the missing grease fitting to prevent corrosion of the pin and bushing.
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Yes, used the proper tool. The zerk you're referring to is the one above the swivel shaft? I believe they are on the Alpha drives. I was thinking about installing it, but drill directly into the shaft, before the pin is installed. That said, that's last on the to-,do list, so it might not get done.
BTW, I saw an old post that may have come from Ron at JR Marine, where he claims he did about 10 drives, adding that zerk directly into the swivel shaft bushing. Seems like a good idea to me. If I had that zerk I could have pumped in some grease to slow the water intrusion, getting past the damaged swivel shaft seal.
 
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This was explained earlier, and I think you understood it, but I want to double check because not understanding this could be the issue. The inner part of the gimbal bearing can swivel in any direction. However it is very difficult to get it to move and you likely need to wack the other end of the alignment bar with a hammer. You should be able to get it to point in near any direction. Just confirm you're familiar with this.

Why are the rear motor mount bolts sticking up like that? Did you remove them? I don't recall what they usually look like.

If it helps to see the motor mount parts of the transom assembly, I have the transom/gimbal assy apart in the garage (also doing steering pin) and I'm 20 min from you. PM if interested.
 
pyro said:
This was explained earlier, and I think you understood it, but I want to double check because not understanding this could be the issue. The inner part of the gimbal bearing can swivel in any direction. However it is very difficult to get it to move and you likely need to wack the other end of the alignment bar with a hammer. You should be able to get it to point in near any direction. Just confirm you're familiar with this.

Why are the rear motor mount bolts sticking up like that? Did you remove them? I don't recall what they usually look like.

If it helps to see the motor mount parts of the transom assembly, I have the transom/gimbal assy apart in the garage (also doing steering pin) and I'm 20 min from you. PM if interested.
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Yes, I whacked the GB around quite a bit. At first it wasn't moving, but after whacking it pretty good with a good sized rubber mallet it did move in all directions. That didn't help the alignment though. The thing to remember is the coupler looked too high even without the GB installed. Adjusting the front mounts to a very high level did the trick. I'll investigate further when the shrinkwrap comes off in late March. I'm not 100% certain, but I think the rear motor mounts look about right, although it's strange the upper portion is a large open space. Funny, in doing a Google search, I never heard of rear mounts too high, only too low. The first thing I'll try is turning over the engine with a 1" pipe in the coupler, seeing if the GB clearance changes. Thanks for the offer. Let me know if you need any advice on the steering pin procedure. Mine was so corroded in the shaft, I had to cut it out in 3 pieces with a reciprocating saw. Wasn't fun at all!
 
pyro said:
This was explained earlier, and I think you understood it, but I want to double check because not understanding this could be the issue. The inner part of the gimbal bearing can swivel in any direction. However it is very difficult to get it to move and you likely need to wack the other end of the alignment bar with a hammer. You should be able to get it to point in near any direction. Just confirm you're familiar with this.

Why are the rear motor mount bolts sticking up like that? Did you remove them? I don't recall what they usually look like.

If it helps to see the motor mount parts of the transom assembly, I have the transom/gimbal assy apart in the garage (also doing steering pin) and I'm 20 min from you. PM if interested.
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Those mount bolts have spacers under the flat washers that bear down on the mount. That is normal on alphas and I suspect Bravos too. I dont know why Merc did that, only that they designed it like this.
 
I happen to have my engine and transom assembly out so was able to take a few pictures to better show what the mounts look like. Maybe it will help. I have the bolts with spacers in the boat and will get pictures with them later.

Top of Rubber Mount in Engine Bell Housing:
IMG_20200102_223325907.jpg


Bottom of Rubber Mount
IMG_20200102_223334984.jpg


This sits on the transom assembly:
IMG_20200102_223308673.jpg

What's weird is I can't find those yellowish washers in the parts list.

The other thing I noticed is on one of my engines the engine mounts is much higher than the others ~1/4". I don't really understand how the height is set.
 
Yes, it's a strange design. I wonder if the spacer is used to aid in tightening the bolt, so it's not recessed below the flange.
 
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