Turbo problem....

Richard
Just looked to Searay 2005 prop chart and your boat's stock props with dual KAD300 is C5 prop set. It's even stock with dual KAD44 which would cause accelaration problem like I had.
As I mentioned in my previous post, my neighbour with twin of your boat, blue hull, dual KAD300, genny, bow thruster and lots of options loaded, also he cruises all year campers on have C5 prop set and he is happy with them. He is always cruising 3-4 people onboard and never heard from him weight is an issue.
So IMO leave them (C5) on and try to play with tabs/legs.
Best regards.
Melida
 
Wow! You've got the whole forest thing going on down there Richard. As Melida says, your're lucky you could reach the RPM you could. No wonder you seem so happy, your boat must be performing out of its skin now without all that drag.

Not sure I can help too much with prop sizing. Mine had a C6 on it when it first arrived in New Zealand but it was changed to a C2 due it being "too large". Sayat (Melida) runs a C4 I think and you have also tried a C3 too I think Sayat?

This is a link to the Volvo Propeller Guide:
http://www.google.co.nz/webhp?rls=i...=&oq=&rlz=1R2TSAU_enNZ411&fp=d981254493d3a178

Not sure if that link will work but if it doesn't just google Volvo Propeller Guide.

While propellers seem to be graded on pitch I wonder about the Volvo ones. It seems to me that the volvo propeller guide provides small to large props so that if looking at the DP-G guide, a C2 is a smaller prop than than C4. Whether there is also a pitch difference I don't know but, the smaller prop will 'push' less water and so will allow the engine to develop higher RPM quicker allowing the boat to jump out of the hole quicker.You just have to make sure the prop is not so small that the engine exceeds RPM at WOT. Of course the trade off for jumping out of the hole quicker, is that top speed will be less as will normal cruise speed. I think Sayat cruises at 22 -24 knots whereas I cruise at 19-21 knots. My top speed is slower than his too. But, at WOT my rpm is right on 3900 recommended RPM for the KAD 300-A. So, really its a bit of a trial and error game and maybe a C3 would be better for me but with the high cost of a set of matched props for the DP-G, I don't think I'll be changing props at the moment.

It's good to clean the after cooler inserts but as you found there is probably not too much wrong in that area. Did you notice any unusual amounts of oil in the aftercooler box (after removing the insert)? It is normal to have some but not too much otherwise it points to a turbo charger issue. What you really need to do is ensure the heat exchangers and oil coolers are cleaned (although I don't see that as particularly easy job on your setup with a hatch lift piston in the only place there might be any space), otherwise overheating is gauranteed. Here's what I found in my oil cooler:

Regards

Terry


7f565208.jpg
 
Terry,

I’m using C4 prop set and can get on plane at 3000rpm. I reach 18,5 to 20 knots cruising speed according to sea state, weather, campers and load. Do fast cruise/long distance travel at 3500 rpm getting 25-27 knots again according to above mentioned parameters. Wot is 3900 rpm and when bottom is clean could see 4000 rpm. I’m not doing 4000 rpm but read in an article of Tony Athens engine should reach +100/+150 rpm more than engine specified wot. I’m getting 32-35 knots at wot. Last Saturday I did a one hour round trip between the islands and saw 31 knots at wot while downstream and when turned to upstream speed decreased to 29 knots. Also while returning to homeport upstream when wind gust blew speed decreased to 16 knots while I was cruising at 3000rpm trim tabs fully retracted and drive at 0 degree boat didn’t fell off plane also no rpm decreased even compressor didn’t kicked in, so turbo boost seem ok.

Terry you are right I tried C3 set. But with C3 I was getting up on plane at 3500 rpm at same speed as I was having with C4 set at 3000 rpm. Also top speed decreased to 29-31knots with C3 set. Long story short you know the whole story I was not happy with them and by enlarging the trim tabs I returned to C4 set.

But I don’t think and IMO Richard won’t to need to change his props with C4 (or C3)s. My neighbour has just exact boat of Richard and he has C5 set and don’t have any performance problem.

I have 1 set of C3 and C4 props at home. If you want I can sell them to you with a reasonable price before my wife throws them out from home with my other boating stuff.:grin:

As Terry mentioned keeping a diesel engine always ship shape makes it economical and longer life than a gas engine, so keep it well maintained always. If you look after it like your new born it will serve you long years with no trouble.

Best regards.
Melida
 
Hi Sayat,

Thanks for the offer of the props. I'd love try different prop sizes just to feel the performance differences but I think my wife would be spinning faster than those props if I went down that path:grin:

I think your right though. Richard doesn't new props...just a clean bottom.:grin:

Cheers


Terry
 
Hi Sayat,

Thanks for the offer of the props. I'd love try different prop sizes just to feel the performance differences but I think my wife would be spinning faster than those props if I went down that path:grin:

I think your right though. Richard doesn't new props...just a clean bottom.:grin:

Cheers


Terry

Terry, you wellcome.

As I mentioned many times in my posts the secret of the keeping performance is keeping clean the props.

I houlout my boat at may (every year) for engine/leg maintanence, wax/polish of boat and bottom paint. I paint 2-3 coats bottom, 4 coat water line sides and 4 coat stern. Also 4 coat tabs/pistons and spray antifouling the leg with volvo antifouling or if I can't find it go for the trilux.

BUT what I used/did for the props don't last long. Recently I heard the product called "LANOGUARD" which is very popular in Europe and there is a firm in my country got the dealership and started to importing. It's brand of New Zealand, the contact info is at Auckland. Are you familiar with it? or what are/did you use(d)ing for your props?

It has a high sell price, but more than that it has a long and difficult preparing and aplication process like a surgery. I'm thinking to buy and try it this year and curious how many months if will stay clean on my props ?

Best regards.
Melida
 
Sayat,

Lanogard is a type of grease. It contains lanolin which is a product from lambswool. It keeps the lambs from getting wet. It's very good as a grease but as Lanoguard's own product site says:

" Propellers: To prevent marine growth it is best to treat with the grease. (All props should be cleaned properly and heated before grease is applied to attain maximum protection). NOTE: This is not anti-foul and treatment should be applied several times a year. "


In New Zealand we mostly use a product called 'Propspeed'as an anti-foul. As the Propspeed site says:

" [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Propspeed™ prevents marine growth from bonding to metal surfaces below the waterline. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Propspeed™ works because it is slick, not because it is toxic. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Application of Propspeed™ is a simple two step process beginning with a catalyzed etch primer followed by a silicone based top coat. Propspeed™ is an environmentally safe product and does not contain copper, tin or any other toxic substances which may cause environmental pollution. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Propspeed™ is a solution to a problem which has frustrated owners and captains for years. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Performance[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Increased vessel performance[/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Increased fuel efficiency[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Less maintenance costs[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Easily applied[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Incredibly effective[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Long service life[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Zero toxic substances[/FONT][/SIZE]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Uses[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Propellers[/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Shafts[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bow thrusters[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Rudders[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Trim tabs[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Keel coolers[/FONT][/SIZE]
[/SIZE]

I use Propspeed on my props amd trim tabs. The last application went on in Dec 2009 and it's getting close to needing to be done again. I think 18 months is about it's life but you can get two years at a stretch.

You can buy Propspeed in Turkey. The distributor is:

[SIZE=-1]Neva Marine Ltd.
Tersaneler Bolgesi
GIPTAS Sanayi Sitesi, A-44
Tuzla-Istanbul 34944
Tel: +90 (216) 447 0600
Fax: +90 (216) 447 0602
Mobile: +90 (533) 733 9416
Email: info@nevamarine.com
Contact: Nurettin Caliskan

[/SIZE]


Hope this helps Sayat.


Terry
 
Terry,
Thanks fort the thorough info.
I guess the water of your boating area is almost potable to stay the propspeed since 12/2009.
Where I boat is the most crowded city of my country and sea is dirty. Just after one month of fresh antifouling the bottom starts to foul, so I have to watch and dive and clean the bottom. This summer will be the third season with my boat and after two years (24 moths) of boating with it I’m tired of thinking its bottom.
Thanks for the contact info. I’m gonna call and get some info about it.
Best regards.
Melida
 
Guys,

I was busy over the weekend but something was bugging me.....It wasn't a perfect day for boating but I went out anyway. I filled the tanks to about half full because I want to go for a bit further out. A non-stop two and a half hours in different sea and wind conditions in different rpm and speed. I must say I was happy enough to have nothing to complain about.:smt001 There was no problem in getting on plane and reaching 36 knots at 3700 RPM. Do you guys think this is ok? Even though I got 38 knots before? You guys are right that why should I bother changing the C5 props. There is nothing wrong as far as I see. I only encountered another slightly overheated (just under 210 degree) during the return jounery in WOT all the way. Funny enough this time was the port engines. Normally the STB side always shows overheating, but was ok on this run.:thumbsup:

Thank you for all those info on the under treatment. It's too late for this time but I will bear them in mind in about 6 months time. I never had such a "bad bottom" in the past and I still couldn't figure out why it turned so bad for the last 7 months. Anyway now I really know the importance in having a "clean bottom"!:wow:

Can't wait till next weekend for another trial!

regards,
Richard
 

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Richard,

Good to hear from you and everthing went ok.
But you should turn 3900rpm also 4000rpm with C5 prop set, and you should reach 40+knots. My neighbour with same boat of you does that speed and another friend has same 335DA hull with twin D4-260-DPH and loaded(genny,a/c,dinghy,etc) reaches 42-43knots at wot.

When hauled out the boat have you cleaned/antifouled the props or checked/scanned/balanced them for any wear? That will make you to reach 3900rpm as it is the factory specified wot for KAD300. Also have the tabs fully retracted and set the drive to +5 should increase your wot rpm.

Another issue you faced overheating at wot is about dirt/debris cumulated in the heat exchangers/coolers (sea water system) as Terry had, and he overcame that issue by cleaning the whole components of sea water system.

Hope to sea some other pics and videos.
Best regards.
Melida
 
Hi Richard,

Glad to hear you had a good run. That always take the stress out of things.:smt038

I can't comment too much on prop performance except to say that 36 knots is fast!:wow: I can't imagine doing that speed which is almost twice the speed I currently do. I have enough problems trying to avoid other vessels when lighting and /or sea conditions are poor and I'm only doing 19-20 kts. It must be exhilarating, on top of which I assume it must save fuel, assuming you travel at almost twice the distance as me in the same time at the same RPM. Do you know what your litres/hour fuel consumption is by any chance? Of course you have a twin so fuel consumption must be for two engines against my one.

But, you can probably get some more speed as Sayat says. I agree, the engines should run at 3900 rpm at WOT but 3700 is at the bottom of the range. So either your hull/prop is still a bit manky in places or the C5 prop is too big.

Your overheating problems sounds like the same problem I had, ie is the classic oil cooler/heat exchanger issue but the only way to tell is to start cleaning them and inspecting all your raw water components.

Still, it sounds like you're well over your original problem. Happy boating Richard. :thumbsup:


Terry
 
Guys,

The weather was terrible last weekend and couldn't go for another trial. The forecast for this weekend doesn't sound too promising either! May be a good time to check out the heat exchanger....
I haven't really worked out the fuel consumption. The only record I had was when VP did the VODIA test (if you remember the previous post).
I am sure the bottom of the boat is clean and sound but one thing not sure if significant....as Sayat saying about the condition of the prop.....when I was painting the props, I found the STB prop has a very tiny hole and another about 1 mm chip on the edge. I wonder how that could happen since the props are solid Stainless. They weren't there 8 months ago when I did the last anti-foul. Will try to fnd the pics and post see if you guys can tell.

Thanks for your support guys!

Richard
 
Guys,

The weather was terrible last weekend and couldn't go for another trial. The forecast for this weekend doesn't sound too promising either! May be a good time to check out the heat exchanger....
I haven't really worked out the fuel consumption. The only record I had was when VP did the VODIA test (if you remember the previous post).
I am sure the bottom of the boat is clean and sound but one thing not sure if significant....as Sayat saying about the condition of the prop.....when I was painting the props, I found the STB prop has a very tiny hole and another about 1 mm chip on the edge. I wonder how that could happen since the props are solid Stainless. They weren't there 8 months ago when I did the last anti-foul. Will try to fnd the pics and post see if you guys can tell.

Thanks for your support guys!

Richard

Richard,

It's a good start of cleaning heat exchangers for solving the overheating. If you are a DIY guy Terry could help you, he did it recently.

Your fuel consumption should be between 15-20 liters per engine if you get on plane at 3000 rpm with clean bottom. My neighbour with same boat as you does totally 30-35 liters minimum, when loaded and dirty bottom it goes twice.

As for the props hole and chip should inspected and fixed by a prop shop. Even they are SS but not unbeatable. While hauled out or at the workshop of VP mech could be damaged or could fell down, 1 prop weighs app 8kgs so it could be heavy to handle for someone.

You can loose rpms even with that tiny hole and chiped edge. When mine get very very few amount of algae even not barnacle on them can't reach wot. So a damage must cause loose of wot rpms.

If you paint them don't know in the sea where you boat will last how much but let say 3 months, after that props will be covered with algae and barnacle. You should carry on board #80 wet sandpaper and dive regularly and clean them. It not only ensures you to reach wot rpm, also most importantly remains your fuel consumption at optimum.

Hope to hear from your performance datas about at what rpm and trim settings in different sea/weather boat performs. Also pix.

Best regards.
Melida
 
Yes pix...must have pix Richard:smt038.

No probs about the fuel consumption. I think we all must be doing about pretty much the same...per engine. Tell me Richard, are you saying that growth on your hull was after 8 months in water since the last anti-foul? Wow, that's pretty agressive marine life! I'd say you would benefit from hauling your boat out every 4 months and giving the hull a wash down. You might go longer between anti-fouls. Always good for the wallet.:grin:

Sayat, have you enquired about the Propspeed product yet? I took my boat out last weekend and dived on the props. They were as smooth as a babies bottom. I reckon the'll go for another 6 months for a total of two years with Propspeed anti-foul on. Although I think the key is to run the boat on the plane at least once every three weeks, and pull it and wash the bottom every 6 monthd or so.

Just so that we all remember what it's like to sit in the Captains seat of our KAD 300 diesel powered Sea Ray's.....here's some videos of my recent trip. A few bumps in a following sea but nothing too harsh.
Just click on the picture. (first time I have posted a video so let me know if I have mucked it up).:grin:






Terry
 
Terry,

Glad to hear from you again.

We are three people on this board with KAD300 like the Faberge Eggs in the Kremlin Armoury Museum.:grin:

I’m doing 13,5LPH average by each fill up, dividing the hours did to the liters of fuel bought. Once I was newbie of this boat and engine configuration and bottom got worst dirty I did 19LPH average, but never saw more than 19lph. Now I’m getting 13,5LPH.

I have about 1,5 months for haul out. I called the dealer of Propspeed and they have it in their stocks. Application of the propspeed is a bit troublesome but my buddie’s captain is doing my antifouling and polish/wax so he could handle it. I’m curious about how long it will stay in our dirty sea.

I bought my boat in Feb 2009 from a far city. Before traveled to me she was antifouled and sent me via truck. After that through May 2010 hauling I hauled out and pressure washed her 6 times, for installing bow thruster, under water leds, air conditioner, extending trim tabs and prop change. That year I was happy with the performance and consumption.

This year (since May 2010) I’ve never hauled out her and respectively no bottom washing. At the end of June I was having difficulty to get on plane. Dived, cleaned the bottom mud, sanded props and sponged the tabs, leg and water line sides. After that date in mid august again same. This followed in November and February. I don’t needed to haul out her at mid season because I’ve finished all my installation/projects about underwater, and when boat gets out of water antifouling meets with oxygen. So it dies or not works as day one. Have to sand and touch up a new coat of antifouling. This will rise the may maintenance cost twice. Where I live/boating even with fresh antifouling and I cruise very frequently bottom gets dirty and boat won’t plane after 2.5-3 months. I tried this year diving method and I’m happy with the result, I'm getting the same speed and consumption like last year's power washed bottom.

Terry, that videos are very cool:smt038.
I love the voise of KAD300 like hearing the roar of a lion in the zoo.

Tomorrow the weather will be 18C sunny, 2-4Bft and its Saturday. If I can convince my wife to take the daughter to ballet I will be free as a bird at the sea and drinking my frape and cubalibre:smt043.

If I could gonna add pics and vidoes.


Best regards.
Melida
 
We are three people on this board with KAD300 like the Faberge Eggs in the Kremlin Armoury Museum.:grin:


Best regards.
Melida


:smt043 I love that. We are indeed precious!:grin: Hope you have a good weekend Sayat and get out on the water. Our weather is rubbish this weekend with gusts up to 40kts so I'm not going anywhere!!


Terry
 
Hey Terry,
Sounds like the Volvos are running very healthy. I hope the e-mail gets to you for the convertor. Very strange having two boat owners and a tech guy half way around the world from each other and still be able to share information and insights. The net has made it a vary small world indeed. I just pulled the Volvo power package for a small "70 foot" boat. Three 13L 900hp Volvo hooked to IPS drives. Unbeliveable. The boats name is "Penta Gone" http://www.boattest.com/engines/Engine-Test.aspx?ID=440030
Fair winds and calm seas my friends.

BTW I can't afford these even with my discount. LOL LOL.
 
Hi Bill,

Thanks again for the research on that Diesel to Gas converter. It was intersting to note it not just the converter but a whole new harness that has been introduced it seems. Absolutely essential bit of information for this boat. I'm a happy camper!!:smt038

Yes, the net certainly brings the size of the world down. With Richard in Hong Kong, Sayat in Turkey, you in the US and me in New Zealand, us Volvo guys pretty much have the whole world covered:grin:

Ok, Penta Gone. Wow those are some donks. Not Volvo green though I notice except on the top covers. I know I could not afford ONE of those let alone three of them and boat to go with them!! I think they are great technology but my only concern is what happens if you hit a submerged object with them. A stern drive will kick up and you might loose a shaft in a shaft driven vessel, but in an IPS it seems the hull might be the part that breaks?

So, have you actually been involved preparing this vessel Bill?


Terry
 
Terry,
No I'm in the construction equipment side. We do get first hand peeks at new product but not R&D. We do interact with out sister companies and have access to the who's who in the Volvo brand. We are relocating our corporate headquarters to Shippensburg Pa. and I plan to live in Md. so I will be visiting the Penta plant there in Chesapeake.

Now if you're looking for a machine that can carry 40 tons of pay load through 610mm of mud at 50Km/h while running the A/C and the radio on, then I'm all over it.
 
Terry, Oldskool.

It's a great pleasure to having you on this board, that we can exchange our experinces about KAD300 and Volvo Penta generaly. Hope Richard would contribute more often and share his experinces about having twin KAD300.

When I was a freshman in the university in 1995, IT instructor told that in very very near future we will read newspaper from computer and we said common don't joke us. That years yahoo was a crawling search engine and now we can find everything from google.

After a few years, I attended a lecture of my wife's, (she was studying international relations and political science) the guest instructor was Thomas Friedman. He wrote the book "The lexus and the Olive Three" which was a good introduction and sum of globalisation. Since I was an ecomomics student and globalisation was a new era for the world that time I thought he was absurding. After more than ten years of it now I'm benefiting from every possible opportunity of globalisation as being a "Lexus".

Communicating with you from the last end of Europe many times in a day is very strange and unbelievable.

May God save the internet.

Best regards.
Melida
 
Hi guys,

Back again! After 3 weeks trip in North America...Toronto, NYC, Lancaster P.A., Greenville S.C. and got back to HKG on Saturday. Even it was a very tiring trip I still got up early on Sunday and see if the boat still runs. The weather wasn't too good....overcast and rain..... I hit a big thunder storm about 30 minutes after I left the marina. I had to anchor and hidden inside the cabin. After the storm I headed back to the marina in wot (still only 3700 RPM). Both engines started getting hot again. Both got up to 220 degree (but didn't alarm out) and I had to slow down to 2500 RPM to let it cool down. Strange that the day before I left for America I went out for about an hour it didn't really overheat that quick. I checked the filters again as soon as I got back to the marina but they seem ok only with a very little rubbish. We sometimes have bad "red tide" in summer that cogged up my filters before but the "red tide" is not here yet. If that's caused by mechanical should that be there everytime not one day there and one day not there? I also notice one thing that everytime when i open the filter lids, the port side "cup" is full of water (feel like a close circuit) and then water slowly goes down. But on the other engine, there is no water held in the "cup" and the lid can be lift off easier. Any suggestion? VP changed the water pump implers at the 200 hrs service and now is about 270 hrs.
Will catch up with you guys on the rest of the things.....

Richard
 

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