Trump Tax Plan Explained

Discussion in 'The Tiki Bar' started by Gofirstclass, Dec 30, 2017.

  1. bobeast

    bobeast Dance the Tide SILVER Sponsor

    471
    Oct 22, 2017
    Isleton, CA
    2002 310DA
    350 MPI w/V-drives
    No one has to "pay" for a tax cut. Government just has less to work with and _should_ be forced to improve efficiency and/or cut expenditures. Unfortunately, no matter what they try to cut, there will be a vocal constituency crying foul.

    The idea of paying for a tax cut harkens back to my point about believing a tax cut is a give-away. It simply is not.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  2. scoflaw

    scoflaw Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Aug 10, 2011
    cape cod mass
    1999 Powerquest legend 260 sx
    502 mpi Bravo 1
    OK so the gov. has to work for less. Obviously we are talkin job cuts.. So the peeps losing their jobs are paying for it.

    Now we back to no such thing as a "free lunch"
     
  3. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    Speaking of 'free lunch' makes me think of the 'Payroll Tax Holiday' a few years back. Yep, it was like being invited out to dinner, enjoy you deserve it, don't worry 'I'll take care of it', and then they have the waitress put it on your tab.:rolleyes: That 'free lunch' was bumpin' our tab up by about 10-15 billion a month.:eek:
     
  4. bobeast

    bobeast Dance the Tide SILVER Sponsor

    471
    Oct 22, 2017
    Isleton, CA
    2002 310DA
    350 MPI w/V-drives
    If the peeps losing their jobs are part of the waste or are doing work that our government has no business doing, then yes they should lose their jobs. Government is not, or at least should not, be in the business of employing for its own sake.

    So yes. I will concede that government cutback comes at an initial cost to some folks. They are part of that constituency that will cry foul, that I mentioned. That said, if ever there were an opportunity and an incentive to cut wasteful spending, I'd say a growing economy and a tax cut, respectively, serve exactly that purpose.
     
  5. scoflaw

    scoflaw Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Aug 10, 2011
    cape cod mass
    1999 Powerquest legend 260 sx
    502 mpi Bravo 1
    agree totally, trim the fat
     
  6. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    One of President Trump's (there's that term that liberals hate!) in January said that he wanted to reduce government expenses and government employment. Several percentages were kicked around but it looked like 10% was the amount he settled on.

    One only needs to read through a report "Mapping the Swamp" to see how big and how fast our government employment cost has grown. As of the time the report was written there were 30,000 government workers earning more than any governor in any state.

    If you want to see some interesting facts about it, google "Mapping The Swamp". It's a lengthy report that I believe will open your eyes if you read it.
     
  7. UnleashedBeast

    UnleashedBeast Member

    36
    Nov 21, 2017
    Pensacola, Fl.
    Shopping for a Sundancer or Sedan Bridge with Cummins diesels.
    Boatless
    I believe it is more the theory of....

    They (The Dems) have to steal money ( by raising taxes) from citizens who would never vote Democrat, and give it to those who do. It is the Democrats intent to make people dependent on handouts from the federal government as to insure they vote Dem for years to come. I mean, did you really think they could win from their campaign platform at election time?

    Why do you think Dems want illegal immigration? When a deal was struck to allow the "Dreamers" to stay in the US, yet revoking their ability to vote for 10+ years.....the Dems went CRAZY! They would never allow their "instant voters" to retain an ineligible voter status.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
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  8. ttmott

    ttmott Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 3, 2012
    Space Coast Florida
    2006 52 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins QSM11
    There is no such thing as "illegal immigration" and I would wish the press stop using the term or even the term "Dreamers", or "undocumented immigrants" as this beckons a bias of fact. "Immigration" is a process directed by law to enable legal entry and residence of foreign persons into a sovereign country. So then, how do you have an "illegal process directed by law"? It's a contradiction of terms right? The people within these borders that have avoided the immigration process are "illegal aliens". Now I feel for those who are here not by choice and have established, let's call it, roots of good citizenship and residence. For those here not by choice, how about we modify the immigration laws to accommodate legal residence into the US? With that said these people must fall in line with the good people that are currently in the process legally. President Trump's position on this is clear - Change the laws and I'm good with it otherwise they are illegally in this nation -; I agree with this position.
     
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  9. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    Gee Woody, that sounds like a tax cut that has to be paid for.:eek:
     
  10. bobeast

    bobeast Dance the Tide SILVER Sponsor

    471
    Oct 22, 2017
    Isleton, CA
    2002 310DA
    350 MPI w/V-drives
    My house was burglarized last year by an undocumented appropriator
     
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  11. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    Ahem, Mr. Mott, I hate to disagree with your line of thinking, but Dictionary.com says this.....
    "
    a foreigner who enters the U.S. without an entry or immigrant visa, especially a person who crosses the border by avoiding inspection or who overstays the period of time allowed as a visitor, tourist, or businessperson. Compare resident alien. Expand. Also called illegal immigrant.
    Illegal alien | Define Illegal alien at Dictionary.com
    www.dictionary.com/browse/illegal-alien"

    Cambridge English Dictionary says this:
    "illegal immigrantnoun [ C ] uk /ɪˌliː.ɡəl ˈɪm.ɪ.ɡrənt/ us /ɪˌliː.ɡəl ˈɪm.ɪ.ɡrənt/ US also illegal alien

    lives or works in another country when they do not have the legal right to do this."

    Merriam-Webster says this:
    Definition of illegal alien/immigrant
    : a foreign person who is living in a country without having official permission to live there"

    It would seem to me that you are grossly in error as put forth by three very reliable sources. Your apology for your error is accepted.
     
  12. bobeast

    bobeast Dance the Tide SILVER Sponsor

    471
    Oct 22, 2017
    Isleton, CA
    2002 310DA
    350 MPI w/V-drives
    The language has been appropriated by the open borders crowd in order to soften the vernacular towards illegals. They've been so effective at this that even those opposed to open borders have picked up the terminology.

    Webster's, Cambridge, et. al. just reflect the prevailing vernacular regardless of its accuracy. Calling back to my previous comment, if I could convince everyone to refer to burglars as "undocumented appropriators", I'm sure it would eventually make it into Websters.......but they'ed still be burglars.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  13. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    I agree. I like the Undocumented Democrats best.

    There is a push in WA to register everyone who has a driver's license, and WA gives licenses to anyone with a pulse, illegal immigrant or not. So that means our state will have a bazillion voters on the rolls who are in the country illegally.

    I guess that makes sense though, since we already pay for everything for them.
     
  14. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    What all are we paying for?
     
  15. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
  16. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    Woody, here's an answer for you. Keep in mind that these numbers are about 2.5 years old...

    In September 2015, the Center for Immigration Studies published a landmark study of immigration and welfare use, showing that 51 percent of immigrant-headed households used at least one federal welfare program — cash, food, housing, or medical care — compared to 30 percent of native households. Following similar methodology, this new study examines the dollar cost of that welfare use.

    • The average household headed by an immigrant (legal or illegal) costs taxpayers $6,234 in federal welfare benefits, which is 41 percent higher than the $4,431 received by the average native household.
    • The average immigrant household consumes 33 percent more cash welfare, 57 percent more food assistance, and 44 percent more Medicaid dollars than the average native household. Housing costs are about the same for both groups.
    • At $8,251, households headed by immigrants from Central America and Mexico have the highest welfare costs of any sending region — 86 percent higher than the costs of native households.
    • Illegal immigrant households cost an average of $5,692 (driven largely by the presence of U.S.-born children), while legal immigrant households cost $6,378.
    • The greater consumption of welfare dollars by immigrants can be explained in large part by their lower level of education and larger number of children compared to natives. Over 24 percent of immigrant households are headed by a high school dropout, compared to just 8 percent of native households. In addition, 13 percent of immigrant households have three or more children, vs. just 6 percent of native households.
    Here's a link to the article:
    https://cis.org/Report/Cost-Welfare-Use-Immigrant-and-Native-Households
     
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  17. ttmott

    ttmott Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 3, 2012
    Space Coast Florida
    2006 52 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins QSM11
    I believe you will find with some historical research rather than a quick peruse of the internet that the terms are recent additions in vernacular and diction due to popularity (popularity generated in bulk by our "unbiased" press). I will be most happy to permit you a rebuttal of my perceived error.....:rolleyes:
     
  18. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    Maybe not, in your state there's an additional requirement for the automatic voter registration. That is showing citizenship, according to the proposed Bills.
     
  19. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    Woody, that proposal (proof of citizenship to get a driver's license) has been kicked around in WA for several years but goes nowhere in our state legislature. The Secretary of State proposed it again last year but again, it went nowhere.

    The controlling party would lose too many undocumented voters if it did pass, and they don't want that to happen.

    WA is divided geographically by the Cascade Mountains, which run essentially North-South from the Canadian border to the Columbia River. West of the mountains, where a majority of the population resides, is heavily Democratic. The eastern side of the state, which is more than half of the area of the state but much less than half of the voters, is heavily Republican.

    Consequently, only proposed legislation which would benefit the Democratic party gets much chance of passage.
     
  20. UnleashedBeast

    UnleashedBeast Member

    36
    Nov 21, 2017
    Pensacola, Fl.
    Shopping for a Sundancer or Sedan Bridge with Cummins diesels.
    Boatless
    That's exactly what they are, Undocumented Democrats. If you recall, 15 years ago even Democrats were speaking negatively of illegal immigration. Taking from my previous post, they knew it was the only way they could insure winning future elections. Let them in, instant voters, Republicans can no longer win. That is why they want sanctuary cities and open borders.
     

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