Trim Issues

[robbo8199]

First I’d like to thank everyone for their help on a few other topics I had to tackle over the last few weeks. Thanks to everyone’s help our boat now goes in reverse (nice bonus to have:grin and I will be taking on the Smart Tab project in the near future (sadly not as near as I had hoped).

We took the boat out last weekend for a trial run before the season gets underway. Put the boat in the water and she cranked up on the first try :smt038(always a victory on a 17 year old boat). Then put her into reverse and she drove off the trailer like a dream and ran like a champ while we cruised around for a while and headed to the beach area.

Just about the time I starting to think I was going to be able to get to the fun “upgrade” projects I wanted to do over the next few weeks (Smart Tabs, stereo remote, etc.) I ran into a little hiccup…..

As we approached the beach and I began to run the trim up it seems to have broken. Apart from the fact I could see on the trim gauge that it was not going up it was pretty obvious that it was not working correctly. You can always hear the trim going up or down pretty loud but it was clearly making a different sound. It had a much higher pitched almost whining noise while I was trying to trim it up. After realizing it was not working I moved to the trailer trim button to give that a shot. Had issues there as well. It was able to bring it up a little but not much. At this point I would say it was still 80% of the way down.

We anchored and hung out for a bit while pondering how I was going to get it back in the trailer and out of the water without dragging the skeg around. Once we got it back to the trailer I was able to use the trailer trim while my father-in-law pulled up/yanked on the outdrive to get it up enough that we could get it home.

Currently in the garage the “up” portion of the trim button does not work at all and makes no sound when attempting to trim up. The down button works just fine. So my initial thought would be that there is some sort of electrical problem there. Although the trailer trim button will raise it a little but not all the way and seems like it is struggling to do so. I’m not sure how the regular trim and the trailer trim work in tandem. Should the trailer trim bring it all the way up no matter where the starting position? Or can it only bring it up a certain degree and if its not starting from the trimmed up position it will only move X% of the way up from where you start using it?

I don’t have a very good handle on how the trim system works in general so I’m looking for any thoughts or ideas on how to begin diagnosing the problem. I’d appreciate any ideas on what to do next.

On the bright side it appears within a couple years I will have worked on so many things on this boat that I will be one heck of an asset to this forum helping others handle the same issues haha:grin:

Thanks,
Robb

 

[Lazy Daze]

Tilt-UP will always work, regardless of drive position. Trim-DOWN will always work. Trim-UP will only take it about a 1/4 of the way up (usually reads about 1/2 on the gauge).

First, physically check (look, pull/push) all the connections on/around the pump to make sure they are clean and tight.

If that's all good, it could be as simple as your UP solenoid being bad. You can jump around that to test. Big blue wire = UP. Big green = down. Follow the blue wire coming from the pump and apply 12V there. If that works, then apply 12V on the other side of the solenoid.

 

[robbo8199]

Thanks Dennis,

Well it took me much longer to find the time to start looking then I thought. I finally got around to it this week and began doing some testing.

Currently the way it sits the Up Trim does not work but the trailer and down trim work just fine. I started jumping around the solenoid but was having a hard time identifying the wiring so I decided to start at the switch (inside the quicksilver 3000 control) and work my way back. The switch has 3 wires attached Red (constant power to the switch), Green (Down trim), and a Purple (Up trim). From inside the control the blue wire starts at the trailer button and worked just fine as well. The red power was just fine as expected since the switch had power and the green obviously works fine as well. As I started working my way to the back on the Purple wire to make sure I didn’t have a bad connection anywhere the power was good (as long as the switch for the Up was on) all the way to the back.

In the back (right next to the battery) the Purple and Blue split off from the group and go into some sort of junction. At this point the Purple and Blue go into this junction and turn into 2 black wires and the blue also seems to have a return wire that goes back into the wire cluster there. The two black wires which my Purple Up trim has now turned into begin to head to the back on the engine and I can’t seem to follow where they go. There is not much room to operate back there and I can’t follow them. So this junction essentially one side has 1 purple in and 2 blue in (guessing one is a return of some kind) and the other end has 2 black wires that are connected to each other. At the point of this junction the Purple wire still has power when I turn the Up trim switch on

My next question is where in the world does this purple wire now head to? Around the solenoid and pump there is a blue and green but no purple so I can’t seem to follow where this goes. Any ideas on where this should ultimately end up? Does it sound like I am on the right track?

 

[Lazy Daze]

OK, let's see - this might have just gotten easier... maybe.... Note that I don't, by any means, do this electrical stuff every day, but I'll see if I can't think through this with you.

First, just to clarify... TRIM DOWN works? TRAILER DOWN & UP works? TRIM UP does NOT work?

In your first post, you mentioned that TRAILER UP "struggles"? That could be loose/corroded connections or a weak battery. I'll assume, for now, that one of those two things are the "struggling" problem - both are easily checked/verified and corrected.

Now, you mentioned that the purple and blue wires turn into black wires at a junction. That is where those wires go to the "Trim Limit" switch on the port side of the drive (about where it pivots up and down - looks like a plastic hockey puck). The purpose of that switch is to, well, "limit" how far you can TRIM the drive UP. The only "button" that is wired through that is the TRIM UP. TRIM DOWN and TRAILER UP/DOWN operate independent of that switch.

Now, you can apply 12v to the small gauge BLUE wire at the pump's UP solenoid. If that works, then it's a pretty safe bet that the Limit Switch is bad and needs to be replaced (not uncommon as it's an electrical switch in water). BUT, before you go and replace it (time consuming)... Look at the two adjusting screws. They should be approximately in the middle position. If not, loosen the screws and rotate the switch until they are. Tighten and retry the TRIM UP from your control lever at the helm. If that works for you, great - problem solved. But, don't start using the boat until you (I'll look for it as well) find the spec (measurement) for how far the trim cylinders can safely be extended while the engine is running. What you'll then do is rotate the Limit Switch until the cylinders are at the maximum, safe, extended length.

 

[robbo8199]

Ok, so I am sitting in the boat with the iPad looking at it was we speak (type).

When we were originally on the water the Up Trim struggled but after a while quit all together and now does nothing. So you are correct the Down Trim and Trailer Up (i dont have trailer down) work fine but the Trim Up does nothing. I may not have worded that correctly the first time.

I put the multimeter on the small gauge blue wire on the solenoid and I am not getting anything. But the trailer up still works. At some point are the trailer and trim up lines combined before they go into the solenoid?

 

[robbo8199]

Now that I think about it for a second, I wonder if I'm not getting a power reading there because the limit switch is bad so the power signal is not getting back through to the solenoid. Would I need to have the trailer up on while checking for power at the solenoid if the trim up switch signal is failing at the limit switch?

 

[Lazy Daze]

You mentioned above "the blue also seems to have a return wire". That is where the trailer and trim UP lines are combined (that's how the trailer up is independent of the limit switch). If the drive is moving up, then you should have +12v at the small, blue wire on the solenoid. Could you have the meter on the wrong setting or hooked up wrong?

You're checking V while pressing the trailer button, right? Or, are you not doing that... is that what you mean by your questioning in post #6?

What happens when you jump 12v to the small, blue wire?

Here, I found this with a google - it's a different looking handle, but essentially the same: http://www.perfprotech.com/store/articles/mercruiser-trim-wiring.aspx

 

[robbo8199]

When I started tonight I didn't have anyone to help me press the trailer button while I checked the V. I got an extra set of hands from the admiral and I get plent of voltage on the blue wire at the solenoid while pressing the trailer up switch.

It looks highly likely that the problem is at the Limit Switch. The purple wire has power leaving that junction. I took a look at the limit switch and the two screws seem to be in the center or very close. I'll adjust it tomorrow to see if I have any luck. If not it's off to the Internet to research where to get one of these guys and how to install correctly.

 

[Lazy Daze]

OK, that was the last bit of info... power in the purple wire.

The proper way to install them is to remove the drive. I've heard that some can sometimes fish them through - but I've also heard that that can be very tricky and many times ends up taking longer or causing damage.

The two switches (limit and sender on the other side) come as a kit. If you have a local Merc dealer near you, they probably have them in stock - very common item to have on hand. I think they're about a $100.

Now... a little unconventional advice... and this all depends on you (and others that may operate the boat) and your comfort level. You could wire that purple wire direct to the blue wire - in essence, bypassing the limit switch. Since your sender (trim gauge) is probably still working, you'll just need to make sure you don't trim any higher on your gauge than what the limit switch would of allowed you. To do that, you'll need to extend your trim cylinder to max length (still need to find that measurement) and take note on your gauge where the needle is.

Doing this obviously eliminates the built-in safety feature, but a prudent driver shouldn't have a problem. Even if the trim gauge goes south, a driver that is in tune with his boat can still do things safely.

In the original packet that came with the boat, there would have been a 1/2-size booklet, about 1/3" to 1/2" thick -- it is a Mercruiser installation manual. I'm pretty sure the trim cylinder measurement is in there.

 

[CliffA]

Dennis,
this question is directly related to this thread so it is not a hijack....I have been using my 'trailer' switch to raise the outdrive because my trim limit switch is bad and the 'trim up' button on the throttle is non-responsive....i noticed that when i use the 'trailer' switch to raise the outdrive the trim gauge does not move...the needle stays pegged on the lowest 'down' position....if i were to connect the blue and purple wires together as you mentioned would the trim gauge start working again?...i assume this would allow me to raise the outdrive all the way to 'trailer position' with the 'trim up' button on the throttle control....if this is correct i realize (as you stated) that i would have to be careful and not raise the outdrive too far while trimming the drive during normal running....

thanks....

cliff

 

[Lazy Daze]

Cliff, IIRC, when the trim sender goes bad the needle pegs all the way UP. Have you checked the position of the sender? It's similar to checking the limit switch as I posted above. IF the sender is good... it gets it's power from the key switch - it is not related to the trim button.

Connecting the two wires would allow you to use your trim button, but it would not make a difference regarding your trim gauge.

 

[CliffA]

i'll play around with it this w/e....thanks....

cliff

 

[robbo8199]

I’ve made the decision for the time being to bypass the limit switch. I consider myself a prudent driver and there are very few people I allow to drive other then myself. God forbid I have to pull the drive at some point for another reason I may change it out then.

Unfortunately in the 15 years since it was manufactured and the day I bought it the Mercruiser installation manual must have jumped overboard. I will take to the internet tonight in hopes of finding the measurement for the trim cylinder at max length.

Any thoughts on where the best place to splice the purple and blue together would be? Before that junction, after, etc. or does it even matter?

Outside of turning the boat into a helicopter when trimmed all the way up what are some of the other things that can go wrong if it is over trimmed while driving? Not sure it could be trimmed high enough to get the water intake out of the water.

 

[ZZ13]

I’ve made the decision for the time being to bypass the limit switch. I consider myself a prudent driver and there are very few people I allow to drive other then myself. God forbid I have to pull the drive at some point for another reason I may change it out then.

Unfortunately in the 15 years since it was manufactured and the day I bought it the Mercruiser installation manual must have jumped overboard. I will take to the internet tonight in hopes of finding the measurement for the trim cylinder at max length.

Any thoughts on where the best place to splice the purple and blue together would be? Before that junction, after, etc. or does it even matter?

Outside of turning the boat into a helicopter when trimmed all the way up what are some of the other things that can go wrong if it is over trimmed while driving? Not sure it could be trimmed high enough to get the water intake out of the water.

I just did mine a few months ago on the 300DA. I found the two black wires coming from the transom that are connected to the trim limit sensor. It looks like a lamp cord wire pair. At its end were two male bullet connectors connecting it to the purple and blue wires. I bought two new male bullet connectors and connected a short 12 gauge wire between them (gotta buy the yellow or blue bullet connectors to fit a 12 gauge in there - the red ones are for 18-22 gauge and won't fit a 12 gauge wire). I unplugged the existing bullet connectors and connected the connector on the end of the blue wire to the connector on the end of the purple wire to short them together (simulating that the drive is always down), using the short cable I just made. I then used two empty female bullet connectors, stuffed some caulk into their open ends where wires would go in, and them plugged them into the two male bullet connectors on the end of the "lamp cord" wire, to cap them off. Mission accomplished. Drives go up just fine now and I use the trim position gauge to make sure I don't go too far.

 

[Lazy Daze]

Trimming too high while the engine in running can cause the knuckles of the u-joint to smack into each other and it also puts undue stress on the gimbal bearing.

 

[robbo8199]

So at that connection there is a purple in and 2 blue wires (one in and one out). Is the goal to essentially connect all three of those together and completely bypass the black wires (that go to the limit switch) or to simply connect the purple wire to the blue wire that leaves that junction?

 

[Lazy Daze]

Well... Yes and yes. If you splice the purple into either of the blue wires, all three will be linked together. Do it at a convenient spot - in other words, it doesn't necessarily need to be done at the connection you're referring to.

 

[robbo8199]

Thanks Guys.

I got the wires spliced and everything seems to be operating correctly. I found this link below that appears to give me the correct measurement as to where the trim limit switch would have kicked in (had trouble finding the measurement in the Mercruiser Installation manual I found online). So if I understand this correctly I should raise the trim until I reach the point where the measurement on the cylinders reaches 21 ¾ inch (I believe my 1995 alpha is considered the earlier model). Once there, mark that on the trim gauge as the highest point the drive should be trimmed up while the boat is in gear.

If it is in neutral can it then be trimmed up all the way? We often pull up to a beach area where once close and drifting in shallow waters I would put it in neutral so I could trim all the way up and coast up the beach without the skeg grounding.


Sounds like I have everything correct?


http://www.mercstuff.com/trimb.htm

 

[Lazy Daze]

The safest thing is to only trim higher when the engine is off. Being in gear or neutral will still cause problems. It's not that you can't cheat a bit - but very careful with how much you cheat and how much throttle you give it.

 

[LakeRider]

I to had issues with my trim switches and I finally replaced them last weekend along with my bellows and other items. Maybe you guys can help me....I have a Faria trim gauge that has slash marks on it to indicate where the trim postion is. My question is when you are trimmed all the way up/out should the gauge needle be all the way to the top, in the "Up" position? or is this postion to indicate the "trailered" positon?