To Heat or not to Heat...that is the question.

[Alex F]

I'm confused by the question, fear, and examples of sinkings. If the water under and around you boat is not frozen, then why would the water on the other side of your hull, inside your bilge freeze? It seems almost impossible, unless your engine compartment was open to the air. ...

Mike, it sounds like you've answered your own question. Since only the part of the hull is under the water, it stays within the temp of the surrounding water. And of course depending on the location, it could be barely just above freezing. Everything else, from the water line up, will be exposed and remain much closer to the air temp, not so much the water temp. Will the part of the hull under water line spread the "warmer" temp up to the rest of the hull? Probably, but I would think only few inches. This would definately not be enough to protect the ER.

....Assuming you properly winterize the inside parts of your closed seacocks, why would the seacocks crack and sink the boat?

I'm puzzled about this as well.

OP asked interesting question, heat-up or not. I've never stored in water fully winterized boat. When I stored in NJ my boats were on hard. When I had my boat in SC, she was not winterized at all. However, being remote and unticipating different scenarios, including extreme cold snaps (which BTW actually happened and few marinas lost plumbing), I installed oil pan heaters to keep engines/gen and entire ER nice and tosty.

Granted, if all systems are winterized properly, perhaps there's no real need to have the heaters going. After all, that was the whole idea of winterizing, right? However, you probably heard many times that as the temps start to swing, the biggest issue and cause of rust on metal componets, is condensation. Thus, as soon as you invest in block heaters or the ER heaters, the condensation issue will be resolved. I also agree with Al's idea that some components like batteries don't like being exposed to frozen temps. Also, in the past few winters the temps are only dropping lower and lower. We've had reports where properly winterized FW systems developed cracs and leaks. This means that usual -50 or -60 antifreeze didnt provide expected protection. So, even if you have your strainers filled with pink, there's a chance of the pink to fail. IF the seacocks are closed, your boat should be safe. But, I would feel more comfortable keeping my ER constantly above freezing.

Another benefit, if your ER stays nice and warm, it opens extra window in regards to maintanace. Even if it's nasty outside, being in comfy ER will allow to do extra work. So, if I had the same question for myself, I'd vote for having ER heaters.

BTW, things like ER heaters can easily be removed and installed on your next boat. You could use it as a "selling point" for admiral...LOL

 

[quality time]

Two things to look into.

-Does your marina allow unattended heaters?
-Does your insurance policy require the boat to be hauled during layup?


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[Book'em Danno]

I'm confused by the question, fear, and examples of sinkings. If the water under and around you boat is not frozen, then why would the water on the other side of your hull, inside your bilge freeze? It seems almost impossible, unless your engine compartment was open to the air. Assuming you properly winterize the inside parts of your closed seacocks, why would the seacocks crack and sink the boat?

The water around the boat will not freeze due to the blowers that the Marina places in the water to maintain movement and prevent freezing. That doesn't do anything for ambient or water temperature which I believe would contribute to the issues I've stated previously. I'm no scientist by any means and that is why I'm seeking experienced advise. My wife is like bah humbug you don't need that. I am like I hope I don't regret not acting on my gut feeling. I didn't even think of the sea cocks. Ill just have to make sure I've checked everything that may freeze with fine tooth comb and trust the pink stuff will do its job. Next year I'll haul out.

 

[Alex F]

Two things to look into.

-Does your marina allow unattended heaters?
-Does your insurance policy require the boat to be hauled during layup?...

Great point about insurance. Quite often policies for northen regions will state a requirement for hull-out. I had to modify my policy.

 

[Book'em Danno]

Mike, it sounds like you've answered your own question. Since only the part of the hull is under the water, it stays within the temp of the surrounding water. And of course depending on the location, it could be barely just above freezing. Everything else, from the water line up, will be exposed and remain much closer to the air temp, not so much the water temp. Will the part of the hull under water line spread the "warmer" temp up to the rest of the hull? Probably, but I would think only few inches. This would definately not be enough to protect the ER.




I'm puzzled about this as well.

OP asked interesting question, heat-up or not. I've never stored in water fully winterized boat. When I stored in NJ my boats were on hard. When I had my boat in SC, she was not winterized at all. However, being remote and unticipating different scenarios, including extreme cold snaps (which BTW actually happened and few marinas lost plumbing), I installed oil pan heaters to keep engines/gen and entire ER nice and tosty.

Granted, if all systems are winterized properly, perhaps there's no real need to have the heaters going. After all, that was the whole idea of winterizing, right? However, you probably heard many times that as the temps start to swing, the biggest issue and cause of rust on metal componets, is condensation. Thus, as soon as you invest in block heaters or the ER heaters, the condensation issue will be resolved. I also agree with Al's idea that some components like batteries don't like being exposed to frozen temps. Also, in the past few winters the temps are only dropping lower and lower. We've had reports where properly winterized FW systems developed cracs and leaks. This means that usual -50 or -60 antifreeze didnt provide expected protection. So, even if you have your strainers filled with pink, there's a chance of the pink to fail. IF the seacocks are closed, your boat should be safe. But, I would feel more comfortable keeping my ER constantly above freezing.

Another benefit, if your ER stays nice and warm, it opens extra window in regards to maintanace. Even if it's nasty outside, being in comfy ER will allow to do extra work. So, if I had the same question for myself, I'd vote for having ER heaters.

BTW, things like ER heaters can easily be removed and installed on your next boat. You could use it as a "selling point" for admiral...LOL

I've been sold on the heaters a while back. However the admiral as many of you like to make reference is harder than a brick on this one citing that it would cost an arm and a leg to heat through the winter. I'm just going to blow a lid and either buy it and deal with the 'tude fora while, or haul it out. What's the worst that can happen... Her being upset and Putting me on a diet, but at least I'll have piece of my mind.

 

[Alex F]

I've been sold on the heaters a while back. However the admiral as many of you like to make reference is harder than a brick on this one citing that it would cost an arm and a leg to heat through the winter. I'm just going to blow a lid and either buy it and deal with the 'tude fora while, or haul it out. What's the worst that can happen... Her being upset and Putting me on a diet, but at least I'll have piece of my mind.

You have a situation, you've gathered the necessary info. Your admiral's input is another piece of info. At the end of the day, you as a captain have to make the final decision to ensure the safety of your vessel. There are times when our admirals don't agree 100% (at a given moment) as they don't understand the complexity and details involved.

Since this is maintenance and preservation of the vessel item (not a safety at sea), that is where you have to find the balance. As I mentioned in my earlier post. Is a heater a MUST have item in your case? NO. Can your vessel survive the winter without it? If all systems are properly winterized, then most likely YES.

However, we're talking about roughly $300 here on the heaters. You birn that during a short 1.5hrs (each way) cruise. If you think that the heaters will be usefull in the long run, then it's no brainer. IF you're just trying to get by this winter and most likely not use them in the following winters, then it's a waste of money.

 

[alnav]

I've been sold on the heaters a while back. However the admiral as many of you like to make reference is harder than a brick on this one citing that it would cost an arm and a leg to heat through the winter. I'm just going to blow a lid and either buy it and deal with the 'tude fora while, or haul it out. What's the worst that can happen... Her being upset and Putting me on a diet, but at least I'll have piece of my mind.

I don't believe heater operation will cost as much as she thinks. I use a 1000 watt Boatsafe heater (you can probably be fine with a smaller wattage model) as well as a WM dehumidifier and pay between $30-$40 per month to BGE from December to February, varies a little month to month dependent on the weather.

 

[tdgard]

I've been sold on the heaters a while back. However the admiral as many of you like to make reference is harder than a brick on this one citing that it would cost an arm and a leg to heat through the winter. I'm just going to blow a lid and either buy it and deal with the 'tude fora while, or haul it out. What's the worst that can happen... Her being upset and Putting me on a diet, but at least I'll have piece of my mind.

Ah so it's the operating cost she is worried about. I'm farther south but I think the highest bill I've seen for electricity has been $18 in a month for my 600w boat-safe. It is on a lift so it runs a bit more than one in the water though. Just tell her you won't order that second (or third) glass of wine at dinner to pay for the heat.

 

[BillK2632]

When my boat was on a lift at our hours, I kept the BoatSafe 600w in it from Nov-March, I never even noticed the power bill. I wouldn't worry about that - with your boat in the water, the heater is going to run a lot less than on a lift.

 

[scoflaw]

Marina have an electric meter on everyones power pole?

Power costs vary greatly across the country, nothing to dismiss as trivial

My electrical costs in Mass. are 12 times higher than my rate in Florida. 12 cents vs. 1 cent per kwh

 

[tdgard]

Marina have an electric meter on everyones power pole?

Power costs vary greatly across the country, nothing to dismiss as trivial

My electrical costs in Mass. are 12 times higher than my rate in Florida. 12 cents vs. 1 cent per kwh

True. I guess it also matters how your marina jacks the price. Mine charges a $3 meter fee plus the metered rate.

That being said-the rate I quoted is based on 10.4c per kWh.

 

[Book'em Danno]

You all are awesome. I'll make up my decision soon but everyone's points are well taken and appreciated.

 

[Book'em Danno]

Well everybody, Xtrme Bilge Heater purchased. Overkill or not, I convinced the Admiral thanks to everyone's input and at least I can sleep good at night knowing that Murphy's law will not apply as I've wintered all my systems and have a bilge heater. Too much is never too much when dealing with peace of mind. Again, THANK YOU all.

 

[mwph]

Ok. Now that this is settled I sense it's time for a little bit of good natured ribbing......

Ya know, it may be time to upgrade that chart plotter. Let us know how that conversation goes.

 

[Book'em Danno]

Bah ha ha ha! Um, yeah... I think she agreed with it when I saw her carrying 3 huge bags from Jc Penny and Macy's. That was a game changer lmao. Tis the season.

 

[dwna1a]

My wife and kids were in tears and arguing with me to not winterize!

Which heater did did you decide on?

 

[Bt Doctur]

after reading all the replies I would agree that you MIGHT BE SAFE as long as the power dosent go out for a few weeks during a winter blizzard.

Did you have a zippered entrance in the shrinkwrap to check the boat?

Enclosed batteries will give off hydrogen gas that is explosive. Were vents put in the shrinkwrap?

Safest place to be is on the hard.

 

[Book'em Danno]

My wife and kids were in tears and arguing with me to not winterize!

Which heater did did you decide on?

.

I ended up buying the Xtreme Bilge Heater. eBay has it for $367 from authorized dealer w/ 2 year warranty. Today was a very good day to be in the water...go figure.

 

[Book'em Danno]

after reading all the replies I would agree that you MIGHT BE SAFE as long as the power dosent go out for a few weeks during a winter blizzard.

Did you have a zippered entrance in the shrinkwrap to check the boat?

Enclosed batteries will give off hydrogen gas that is explosive. Were vents put in the shrinkwrap?

Safest place to be is on the hard.

Yes to all your questions. I plan on checking the boat at least onc every week. In addition, there are a couple of live aboards in our marina who I'm sure will keep an eye out.

 

[JV II]

The water around the boat will not freeze due to the blowers that the Marina places in the water to maintain movement and prevent freezing. That doesn't do anything for ambient or water temperature which I believe would contribute to the issues I've stated previously. I'm no scientist by any means and that is why I'm seeking experienced advise. My wife is like bah humbug you don't need that. I am like I hope I don't regret not acting on my gut feeling. I didn't even think of the sea cocks. Ill just have to make sure I've checked everything that may freeze with fine tooth comb and trust the pink stuff will do its job. Next year I'll haul out.

The reason why a lake freezes on the top and the fish still swim underneath is not because of water movement. It is because the water down below is warmer. The reason why the water doesn't freeze around your hull when you use the blowers that the marina places in the water is they bring the warmer water to the surface. If there is liquid under your boat, it is above the freezing point of the liquid. Anything on the other side of the hull in an enclosed engine compartment, opposite that liquid, will also be above the freezing point of that liquid. Like the seacocks, for eample. No need to worry. Close the seacocks, seal off the engine room air intakes, and winterize the engines.

I would also recommend 1 amp oil pan heaters. Turn your engines into heat reservoirs. That will keep your engine room above freezing except on the very coldest winter nights. It will also dry out the inside of the engines and the engine compartment. The Xtreme heater is extra insurance that you really don't need.