To ByPass WT …or Not?

Discussion in 'Winterizing' started by Suncatcher, Oct 17, 2021.

  1. HawkX66

    HawkX66 Well-Known Member

    Jul 27, 2020
    SE Virginia and NH
    "Tread Knot"
    1997 Sea Ray Sundancer 290DA

    2020 F350 6.7L
    454 L29 Carb w/ Bravo III
    Are you confusing the two liquids not coming in contact with each other? The a/f or raw water coming from the engine and the fresh water? I agree with JimG. I think you'll find the heating element is immersed in the fresh water side.
    I don't bypass. I drain and blow the system out. I leave all the faucets open.
     
    scoflaw likes this.
  2. b_arrington

    b_arrington Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Feb 21, 2007
    Setauket, NY
    Back Cove 37
    AB Ventus 9VL
    Cummins QSC 8.3 600
    HW heater elements are not like stove, oven, or toaster elements. Those are designed to radiate to the air. Try running those in water and they will burn out.

    HW heater elements are designed to radiate heat to water. Without the water they overheat and burn out very quickly.

    Also, have the heating element operate in a tank full of antifreeze is bad for the tank. It will burn the element and impart a foul smell/taste to to the system. When winterizing the water heater, it's a good practice to turn off put tape over the breaker. The will help guard against accidentally energizing the element and damaging it - where the tank is empty or filled with AF.
     
    Juliery likes this.
  3. Sicktght311

    Sicktght311 Member

    30
    Sep 21, 2021
    Sundancer 270
    7.4L MPI/Bravo3
    So it basically seems theres no right or wrong answer here, and everyone is very different. No bypass/yes bypass, blow out with air/just use AF, etc etc

    Also for the record, AF should have nothing to do with your hot water heater's function and longevity so long as you dont run it while the stuff is in there. Hot water heating elements are typically stainless steel, and designed to resist corrosion, so as long as your hot water heater is properly and fully flushed before you turn it back on, there is no risk of any damage from AF. Hence why i asked because no matter which method you use, theres no risk to the heater itself, just freeze damage risk
     
    Chris-380 likes this.
  4. HawkX66

    HawkX66 Well-Known Member

    Jul 27, 2020
    SE Virginia and NH
    "Tread Knot"
    1997 Sea Ray Sundancer 290DA

    2020 F350 6.7L
    454 L29 Carb w/ Bravo III
    Antifreeze can be corrosive so I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. It's not just the element. That and the taste that'll taint your water if you drink it makes me take a hard pass. Besides the fact it's just not necessary if precautions are taken.
    I fill my water tank with my well water which is good water/not hard etc. I like to be able to use it for drinking if I want to. I won't after a/f sat in the system all winter.
    I've winterized our beach house in NH for the past 40 years without using antifreeze other than in the toilet trap. It took me a couple of years to be able to do it without having a busted pipe here or there. Other than having to replace it after scumbags cut it all out to scrap the copper, I haven't had to fix anything in years.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
  5. Juliery

    Juliery Active Member

    381
    Sep 26, 2020
    Comox, B.C.
    1993 Sea Ray 290 Sundancer
    Galvanized triple axle Road Runner trailer
    7.4 Mercruiser w/ Bravo 2
    Although there may be no absolute "right", there is a big "wrong" - letting the system freeze by being late or doing nothing. Even worse, using extremely toxic ethylene glycol antifreeze.

    Blowing out is cheap but not fool-proof. Slightly better than doing nothing.

    Bypassing saves both time and money. Do it. So bypass x 2: both the HWT and the water tank so it's very easy to pump up the pink antifreeze.

    Drain the tanks, then pump propylene glycol through the system and leave it for the winter. Leave 2 cups of P.G. in both the tanks for disinfection.

    This process is quick, inexpensive, easy, safe, sanitary and fool-proof. Flush the system with fresh water in warmer, Spring weather and be confident that your system is sanitized, safe and fully operational, as well.

    This is THE best practice, without a doubt.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
  6. scoflaw

    scoflaw Well-Known Member

    Aug 10, 2011
    cape cod mass, cape coral fl
    1999 Powerquest legend 260 sx
    502 mpi Bravo 1
    I'm with Hawk on this one, blow out is 100% fool proof and costs nothing. Blown out properly there is no place for water to collect.
     
    Shaps likes this.
  7. Sicktght311

    Sicktght311 Member

    30
    Sep 21, 2021
    Sundancer 270
    7.4L MPI/Bravo3
    Literally any tight space develops moisture. If you blow it out, and its stored outside, its going to collect moisture at some point, and no matter how well you blow it out, some moisture will stay behind in the lines. Theres too many twists and turns, too much dead space is some places, and the lines are too long, to fully get rid of every trace of water. This is fact. Its not enough to freeze anything and destroy lines, but its sure going to cause mold propagation if you have a damp mild winter, or warm spring. Propylene Glycol inhibits mold growth. So even if you blow out your lines until it looks like theres nothing coming out, without PG in there, you're risking mold growth that can be just as annoying to flush out, as the PG.
     
  8. HawkX66

    HawkX66 Well-Known Member

    Jul 27, 2020
    SE Virginia and NH
    "Tread Knot"
    1997 Sea Ray Sundancer 290DA

    2020 F350 6.7L
    454 L29 Carb w/ Bravo III
    Moisture isn't going to cause you any real problems. It needs to be enough to expand and burst a pipe, cap etc. That's why you also leave the faucets open. It allows it to breath and for evaporated water to escape.
    Mold and mildew is a problem in VA for me, but humidity is far worse than what's left in the pipes after blowing it out.
    If a/f gives you the warm and fuzzy, go for it. Won't change anything in my world. Just offering suggestions.
     
    Chris-380 likes this.
  9. scoflaw

    scoflaw Well-Known Member

    Aug 10, 2011
    cape cod mass, cape coral fl
    1999 Powerquest legend 260 sx
    502 mpi Bravo 1
    Never had a mold problem, but if I did I would choose bleach over AF.
     
  10. Little Ducky

    Little Ducky Well-Known Member

    Jun 5, 2017
    Dickson, TN / Chattanooga, TN
    1998 290 Sundancer
    Twin EFI 5.0L w/Alphas
    Kohler 4kW
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
  11. b_arrington

    b_arrington Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Feb 21, 2007
    Setauket, NY
    Back Cove 37
    AB Ventus 9VL
    Cummins QSC 8.3 600
    Agree with you on the taste factor. The taste / smell of non-toxic AF tends to linger.

    Not sure where you're getting that non-toxic AF is corrosive. One of the defining aspects AF is that it helps protect against corrosion. The non-toxic AF labeled for engine use has added anti-corrosive properties to help protect the mechanicals, and also eliminates alcohols that can evaporate and reduce protection.

    To confirm I just looked up the label on some RV antifreeze. It says: "Inhibit fouling and corrosion while preventing algae growth".
     
    Chris-380 likes this.
  12. HawkX66

    HawkX66 Well-Known Member

    Jul 27, 2020
    SE Virginia and NH
    "Tread Knot"
    1997 Sea Ray Sundancer 290DA

    2020 F350 6.7L
    454 L29 Carb w/ Bravo III
    I know over the years they've worked on the corrosive aspect because of aluminum radiators etc. GM had huge issues if you didn't use the right stuff. I'm sure your right about it no longer being an issue with good a/f. I have to wonder about cheap stuff that people might buy though.
     
  13. Sicktght311

    Sicktght311 Member

    30
    Sep 21, 2021
    Sundancer 270
    7.4L MPI/Bravo3
    Thats Ethylene Glycol. That is a VERY different chemical than Propylene glycol used for winterizing boats, which is also actually in a significant amount of foods on the market today since its non toxic.

    Some water system winterizers are Propylene Glycol with Ethyl Alcohol mixed, but ultimately they're all still non toxic and inhibit corrosion, compared to the Ethylene Glycol found in auto cooling systems
     
    b_arrington and Chris-380 like this.
  14. HawkX66

    HawkX66 Well-Known Member

    Jul 27, 2020
    SE Virginia and NH
    "Tread Knot"
    1997 Sea Ray Sundancer 290DA

    2020 F350 6.7L
    454 L29 Carb w/ Bravo III
    Gotcha. I still would rather not have it in my system if it's not necessary. I just drain, blow it out and am done with it. Easy and free.
    For what it's worth, I'm also not on board with what a lot of folks say is safe to ingest. The foods I eat don't have all the crap in it.
     
    Little Ducky likes this.
  15. Sicktght311

    Sicktght311 Member

    30
    Sep 21, 2021
    Sundancer 270
    7.4L MPI/Bravo3
    Next time you go to the store, look at the label of what you're buying. Even the things you wouldnt think have PG in them, have PG in them. its everywhere
     
  16. b_arrington

    b_arrington Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Feb 21, 2007
    Setauket, NY
    Back Cove 37
    AB Ventus 9VL
    Cummins QSC 8.3 600
    I'll just note that blowing out is great for winterizing to protect against freezing. This is what I do.

    But I did learn from a friend that laying up a boat in hot weather (like if you are a snowbird that leaves your boat in Florida for the summer) has different considerations. Blowing out a water system will allow for a nice warm, humid environment where nasty critters like to grow. In this situation it's preferred to use the non-toxic AF in the water lines to prevent mold/mildew/algae.
     
    Nater Potater and HawkX66 like this.
  17. scoflaw

    scoflaw Well-Known Member

    Aug 10, 2011
    cape cod mass, cape coral fl
    1999 Powerquest legend 260 sx
    502 mpi Bravo 1
    I don't eat processed foods, but give me some examples
     
  18. HawkX66

    HawkX66 Well-Known Member

    Jul 27, 2020
    SE Virginia and NH
    "Tread Knot"
    1997 Sea Ray Sundancer 290DA

    2020 F350 6.7L
    454 L29 Carb w/ Bravo III
    Same here. My wife really has us pretty locked down on eating healthy. I support it. Especially now with all the crap they're trying to mandate. They're probably already slipping it into main stream foods to make sure everyone gets what they're pushing. The thought of buying my food at Wally world tickles my gag reflexes...
     
  19. HawkX66

    HawkX66 Well-Known Member

    Jul 27, 2020
    SE Virginia and NH
    "Tread Knot"
    1997 Sea Ray Sundancer 290DA

    2020 F350 6.7L
    454 L29 Carb w/ Bravo III
    I can't disagree with that. If I were storing, not winterizing I'd probably fill the system with something. A/f? Maybe. I bet there's better alternatives. Vodka might be a little pricey though lol
     
    Nater Potater likes this.
  20. villain style

    villain style Well-Known Member

    Oct 10, 2006
    Mears Point Marina Kent Island, MD
    2006 44 DA
    QSC 8.3s
    Cummins QSC 8.3s 500HO
    This is how I do it too. Never had an issue yet..
     
    Pirate Lady likes this.

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