To Add Or Not Add A Generator, That Is The Question...

stephenm27 said:
FWIW, I have installed a marine generator on a (my) boat (not my SR) that wasn't previously equipped from the manufacturer for it. I don't install them for a living and this was a first for me. That said, it wasn't nearly as expensive (in terms of costs) as what you've been quoted. In my case, materials were sub-one-thousand dollars (marine-quality AC wiring to electrical panel, main breakers, fuel line, exhaust hose, muffler, SS thru-hulls, sea cock, etc). My project also involved a separate fuel tank as I was placing a diesel (Entec West) genset in a gas boat. Total install labor was probably less than 30 hours total and that includes all the "first-timer learning" that I endured. A real shop should have this down to a science (and be far more efficient labor-wise).

Hopefully you can find someone that will quote the job reasonably for you...having a generator is definitely a "must-have" for us in the South and I think they add great flexibility/freedom for enjoying the boat.

(BTW--congrats on getting your wings back---great to hear!)
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So, you were able to get the generator where it needed to be without removing an engine? All the guys I have talked to with 340DA's (3) have been told an engine must be pulled to get it in. (Likely by the same SR dealer.)

Does anyone know if an engine must be pulled on this 340DA?

I also have difficulty expecting to aquire all the marine grade componentry for "sub-one-thousand dollars", especially from a quality installer.

MM
 
The last one I recall seeing a generator out of was an '06-'07, and the engine was not removed, but some of the exhaust plumbing was removed. The mechanics at our marina have access to several large forklifts and a travel lift so lifting the generator in various configurations depending upon space limitations isn't a problem. They frequently remove the linear actuators to open hatches more then 90˚.

If t here is any magic to this installation it may be selecting a generator that is a low profile design. Both Westerbeke and Kohler sell 5.0KW low-co gasoline generators that are under 18" tall.
 
MonacoMike said:
So, you were able to get the generator where it needed to be without removing an engine? All the guys I have talked to with 340DA's (3) have been told an engine must be pulled to get it in. (Likely by the same SR dealer.)

I also have difficulty expecting to aquire all the marine grade componentry for "sub-one-thousand dollars", especially from a quality installer.

MM
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Re read...I didn't do the install in a 340. It was a 25 foot cruiser of another manufacturer. I can't tell whether an engine pull is required for a 340 but I would assume a quality/experienced shop would be able to weigh a pull against the labor to lift the hatch off for complete access.

Every component I used in my specific install was marine-grade, including a custom built fuel tank for the diesel. Do you have a net list of components that you're working from? Perhaps it has something(s) that's unique to the 340...?
 
sfergson727 said:
While I have no first hand experience, other than owning the boat and performing all the maintenance, I can say with some confidence that the engine would indeed need to come out. I can't fathom any other way to get a 300 lb block of material past it without causing major damage to the engine and it's components. You could possibly remove a manifold, but one slight error and you would have squashed everything on top the engine including the ECM.

It is also likely that you would need to remove the engine hatch, as I don't think, even with the struts taken off, you could lift it vertically to get it out of the way. I'd have to take a look at the hinge line, but even so, that would be a lot of stress on the two hinges that hold it in place.

Just to give you an idea of how tight it is, even the water heater would be very difficult to get out of the boat without removing the engine. To remove it, basically you would need to remove the holding tank, the muffler and then go out over the top of the engine, possibly after unfastening the hatch to get the clearance...not inexpensive if you hire it out. I don't think a generator would clear the space between the back of the engine and frame of the hatch, btw...but if it could, that would be one way to get it in, if you removed the muffler, and were able to stand the engine hatch vertically.
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It's apples-to-oranges since it's a different boat, but on my install, the boat design allowed the hatch to go over-vertical (hatch lifts disconnected). That helped with maneuvering the genset via lift/hoist without overhead obstructions to deal with.

Your 340 sounds very tight with little margin for swing space. It's unfortunate the only place for it is way back there at the transom...
 
No idea on cost.

I do agree with jimT and frankw, a cabin boat w/o a genset won't sell in Florida. Perfectly fine in other parts of the country.

It's not that you can discount the boat enough to sell it, most buyers don't want the hassle/risk of unknown cost/etc to buy without and then add after the purchase.

All the other boats on the market there will have a genset.

A few years ago a friend with a nice tiara had it in bareboat charter in Maine. I used the boat a couple times in Maine, nice boat.

This was back when the power bareboat market was still viable and healthy. He decided one fall that he wanted to move it to Florida and put it in bareboat charter there. None of the brokers would touch it since it did not have a genset.

Mark
 
Build a cardboard box the same size as the genny. You'll be tempted to maneuver the box in ways that you won't be able to as compared to a heavy block of iron on a hoist, so try to resist that and just maneuver it the way you can imagine it would while on a hoist. However, there's always some wiggle room on a hoist and you could even (somewhat) simulate it by tying a rope to the box to simulate the hoist, too. It's not 100% foolproof, but it should at least give you a pretty good idea. One of the tricks to getting something like a genny into position is using 2x4's wedge/move the genny sideways as you lower it. I haven't done this procedure on a 340 to say if it is or isn't possible without removing anything, but getting some of the cubic-foot-space-robbing items such as an outboard manifold or exhaust tubing will certainly make things easier.
 
I removed the genset from my 330DA, rebuilt it, and reinstalled it. I removed the starboard engine's outboard exhaust manifold, which allowed more than sufficient space for two other guys and myself to lift it out. I hired the marina's forklift driver to help me reinstall it and that was a lot easier.

I don't think dropping it into the engine space will be a huge challenge. While the hull and cockpit design is different, Sea Ray tends to leave space for servicing. I would not, however, recommend installing a diesel generator in a gasoline powered boat. Diesel generators aren't ignition protected. Would be tremendously ironic to blow the boat up in the pursuit of increased safety.
 
I'm actually surprised that there are so many over 30' cruisers without generators. Once I moved above a single engine mid 20' cruiser, that was a must have in our area. We're not that far south, but I can't imagine not having one on that large a boat. I hope the OP can add one relatively affordabaly as I think it would be hard to sell otherwise.
 
Consider the cost of shipping the boat back north vs the cost of installation of the genset.
 
This is the tread on the 380 generator replacement.
http://clubsearay.com/showthread.php/62742-New-Generator-Install-in-a-380DA?highlight=generator

The 380 has a lot more room than a 340, so I am not suggesting that you can slide a generator into 340 without moving an engine.

Doubt I could get mine out of my bilge without pulling an engine.
BilgeYoga_zpsi9v4ghwe.jpg
 
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sfergson727 said:
Like it or not, there is a lot of truth there. Salt water tears the hell out of a boat unless the owner keeps up with it. Around the Great Lakes, you can spot a boat that has spent time in salt water from a mile away.

Now whether the damage is actually caused by salt water, or sitting in the sun twelve months of the year is debatable. But regardless of the reason, salt water boats are far worse for wear than their northern counter-parts in most cases.
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Here we go with another of Scott F's gross over generalizations.................

There is no doubt that some saltwater boats are neglected and we see photos of them here because most CSR members start shopping for boats with the cheapest listings, but to say all salt water boats are evil dogs is just wrong. I am in a dealer owned marina full of Sea Ray's and 75% of the boats will show as well as any of your Great Lakes boats. Florida's sun is hard to manage and if you see oxidized dull gelcoat on a southern boat, it is because of a lack of maintenance, not salt water.

Your 12 months a year is true, I'll give you that. We boat in Florida because it is a 12 month a year activity. When you Great Lakes boaters are just talking about boats during the 5-6 months your boats are in storage, our boats are not just sitting in the sun. We are out having fun with them.
 
"When you Great Lakes boaters are just talking about boats during the 5-6 months your boats are in storage, our boats are not just sitting in the sun. We are out having fun with them."

I was going to say the same thing.
 
Vince, did you have a cigarette when you got off that generator? ;-)

One reason I passed on the '03-07 vintage 340DA - ROOM TO ROAM in the ER. I had had enough of that cramped situation with my previous boat.
 
sfergson727 said:
Like it or not, there is a lot of truth there. Salt water tears the hell out of a boat unless the owner keeps up with it. Around the Great Lakes, you can spot a boat that has spent time in salt water from a mile away.

Now whether the damage is actually caused by salt water, or sitting in the sun twelve months of the year is debatable. But regardless of the reason, salt water boats are far worse for wear than their northern counter-parts in most cases.
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Meh, I think you'd be hard pressed to tell if my 330 been in salt. (it has) from a mile away, or even 5 feet away.
 
Molson said:
Meh, I think you'd be hard pressed to tell if my 330 been in salt. (it has) from a mile away, or even 5 feet away.
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How's the windshield frame holding up ? My boat looks good but that frame is corroding
 
I'll poke the bear on this one - I haven't been posting that much lately. On my 340, which is a hair narrower than the 2003 - 2008 generation, a Westerbeke 5.0 Low Profile genset can be removed and replaced, complete, without pulling an engine. The starboard engine exhaust manifold and riser do have to come off, but that's it - no further disassembly is required. The hatch does need to be disconnected from the ram(s), and stood straight up. On a similar vintage 380, the whole job can be done without even pulling a manifold, although the exhaust hoses need to be pulled for access. Otherwise, common practices for rigging equipment will see you through the job.

Dale
 
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