The truth about wearing a mask -finally

Golfman25 said:
Can you explain why they only conducted "studies" on hospitalized patients, who we know are in grave danger once they enter the hospital? Why haven't they studied it's use (along with zinc and/or azithromycin) on mildly symptomatic patients to keep them from reaching the hospital?
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There have been PostExposure Prophylaxis (PEP) studies completed on healthy individuals who may have been exposed to infection and not hospitalized to see if hydroxychloroquine prevents getting covid, both very large but neither showed a benefit. There is also a Pre Exposure Prophylaxis (PrEP) study, also quite large, still in progress to see if the drug might prevent infection in individuals who have not been exposed but might. That's still in progress with results expected soon.
Here's a decent summary of the current state of hydroxychloroquine research:
Three big studies dim hopes that hydroxychloroquine can treat or prevent COVID-19
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...roxychloroquine-can-treat-or-prevent-covid-19
 
alnav said:
Video interview with Dr. Fauci. He explains the circumstances and reasoning for both the current and previous recommendations and is open about the difference:
https://www.thestreet.com/video/dr-fauci-masks-changing-directive-coronavirus

I don't quite understand your point. It seems it's that, having taken a previous position, a public figure is never allowed to change it? If he/she changes it, no matter what the circumstances, then the person can never be trusted again?
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If they hold themselves out as "experts" and we are constantly told to "listen to the experts" and mask use has been around for a hundred years (and there is purportedly science behind it), then no, they are not allowed to say "masks won't work" and then change to "you must wear a mask" and expect people to take them seriously, without question. Frankly, had they instituted a mask recommendation day one, how many infections and deaths could we have prevented?

That is what we did. The day the ordered shut downs and we were deemed essential, we took our limited stock of masks and handed them to to our employees for use. We survived an infectious person without any transfer.
 
El Capitan said:
Consider the source folks. They are not the source of truth nor facts.
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You should take a look around the site. It seems to be equally likely to confirm (or call BS on) the words of politicians of any stripe and provides references for each article.

For example, from earlier this week:
Donald Trump accurate that deaths from coronavirus are falling
https://www.politifact.com/factchec...-trump-accurate-deaths-coronavirus-are-falli/

Or:
“The NAACP has endorsed me every time I've run.”
NAACP gave Joe Biden some high marks but never endorsed him
https://www.politifact.com/factchec...gave-joe-biden-some-high-marks-never-endorse/
 
Golfman25 said:
If they hold themselves out as "experts" and we are constantly told to "listen to the experts" and mask use has been around for a hundred years (and there is purportedly science behind it), then no, they are not allowed to say "masks won't work" and then change to "you must wear a mask" and expect people to take them seriously, without question. Frankly, had they instituted a mask recommendation day one, how many infections and deaths could we have prevented?

That is what we did. The day the ordered shut downs and we were deemed essential, we took our limited stock of masks and handed them to to our employees for use. We survived an infectious person without any transfer.
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Thanks. I think I may get it. I thought you were using Fauci's change of direction on the issue as an excuse to reject masking but I see that's probably not the case. I think we have every right to expect truth and consistency from our leadership and you have every right to be outraged when that didn't happen as well as to be skeptical moving forward. I personally don't think this violation deserves capital punishment based on the circumstances as there is too much at stake. I don't think this is the last time we're going to see policy shifts, after all, this thing is only about six months old and new facts are being learned every day.
 
alnav said:
Video interview with Dr. Fauci. He explains the circumstances and reasoning for both the current and previous recommendations and is open about the difference:
https://www.thestreet.com/video/dr-fauci-masks-changing-directive-coronavirus

I don't quite understand your point. It seems it's that, having taken a previous position, a public figure is never allowed to change it? If he/she changes it, no matter what the circumstances, then the person can never be trusted again?
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Fauci holds himself out as our top virologist. Covid 19 is sorta new but viruses are not. Mask technology is not new. So doctor know it all just figured out that masks work? If that is true he is pathetic. The more likely conclusion is he tried to placate the sheeples by misrepresenting the effectiveness of masks because they weren’t available. Now that cheap masks are available they are again trying to placate the sheeples to behave by telling us not to worry if we all comply the world will be saved.
I am not a scientist. So will someone explain to me how a surgical mask prevents me from spreading the Covid but doesn’t prevent me from getting it? Does the mask medium only filter in one direction? Or are we being lied to again?
 
I've worked with doctors for over 30 years. In the OR, ER, bedside, in the office, in business.
I studied medicine for 8 years and earned 3 cardiology credentials.

I learned several important lessons from this lifetime of working with docs. Medicine is an art, not a science. Much of what we do is an educated guess. Most of the time with many diseases we know what, but don't know how or why, definitely not when.

Even relying on data can be misleading. Data can be interpreted in many ways.
The most reliable method of determining a course of action to resolve for a given state is through good old experience (read trial and error here) backed by peer reviewed consensus and peer consultation. Hopefully we get lucky and there is evidence to back the course of action.

Re the mask. It is known, proven, demonstrable, that for many people wearing a mask is harmful. We know the size of this virus and we know the filtration capability of N95 respirators. There-in lies the evidence and reality.

Do with it what you will. But don't waste your time trying to convince someone to wear it or not wear it. I am merely offering why I choose to exercise my constitutional rights, judgement, education, and common sense to not wear a mask.
 
JimT said:
Fauci holds himself out as our top virologist. Covid 19 is sorta new but viruses are not. Mask technology is not new. So doctor know it all just figured out that masks work? If that is true he is pathetic. The more likely conclusion is he tried to placate the sheeples by misrepresenting the effectiveness of masks because they weren’t available. Now that cheap masks are available they are again trying to placate the sheeples to behave by telling us not to worry if we all comply the world will be saved.
I am not a scientist. So will someone explain to me how a surgical mask prevents me from spreading the Covid but doesn’t prevent me from getting it? Does the mask medium only filter in one direction? Or are we being lied to again?
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The answer lies in first correcting your question. There is a difference between a mask and a respirator. The N95 "mask" is a respirator. Cloth masks are...covers. Cloth masks are designed to prevent fluid particles from leaving the mouth and projecting onto a patient/person. They are wear-once-and-dispose use case.

N95 masks is specifically designed for ongoing breathing in a contamination area. All respirators are performance measured and is indicated on the product.

So, back to your question. Mask is designed to keep you from spitting on someone else. But it is not designed from you breathing in through the gaps in their fibers a virus.

N95 respirator will filter the outside contaminants up to 95%, but allows at best, tested in laboratories (think MPG in car stickers...best case scenarios), will allow 5% of what you inhale to include whatever is contained in the environment. So substitute "poison gas" for the virus. An N95 respirator will filter out 95% of the poison. You get to breathe in 5% of it.

The problem with N95 and this virus is that the physical size of the virus is far smaller than the filtration gaps of the respirator. The debate within the CDC has gone back and forth. It has become a pure political hot potatoe.

The only, fail safe, fool proof way to prevent contamination from COVID-19, or anything for that matter, is isolation, at least .... "social distancing".
 
Henry Boyd said:
Not quite accurate, I try to use facts to support my arguments. Why don't you try that some time.

BTW, Blue I do love how you posit a theory and when asked to support it you immediately deflect with some off topic comeback. As I recall that's a sure sign you can't support the position.

Rather than personally attack me why don't you try and defend your position. Still waiting to hear what you have done to prevent "incompetent government" besides ranting on the internet.
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Lol.... or it means I replaced a water pump, fixed a gel coat blister, changed the transmission oil, washed the boat and installed two rod holders for my sun shade.... went to the hardware store twice, went out for lunch, put the boat back together and in 17 minutes my wife arrives with my daughter from Colorado, her husband and her best and his husband for a weekend on PIB...... so you will have to wait a few days.... or go with I got nothing :)..... your choice
 
Blueone said:
Lol.... or it means I replaced a water pump, fixed a gel coat blister, changed the transmission oil, washed the boat and installed two rod holders for my sun shade.... went to the hardware store twice, went out for lunch, put the boat back together and in 17 minutes my wife arrives with my daughter from Colorado, her husband and her best and his husband for a weekend on PIB...... so you will have to wait a few days.... or go with I got nothing :)..... your choice
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Ok, I can live you have nothing to offer but baseless opinion. Good to know.
 
Recent Article from Stanford Medicine: http://med.stanford.edu/news/all-ne...ntists-contribute-to-who-mask-guidelines.html

5 Questions: Stanford scientists on COVID-19 mask guidelines

Some excerpts that address recent questions on this thread:

“We’ve learned that as many as 40% of people infected with the virus that causes COVID-19 may have no symptoms. But when they talk, cough or sneeze, they can still spread the virus to others in the form of respiratory droplets expelled into the air. Those droplets evaporate into fine particles that may linger. The mask traps these larger droplets before they can evaporate. So, wearing a mask regularly can prevent spreading at the source even when we don’t know we are sick.”

“Many people argue that cloth masks can’t be effective because they can’t filter out viral particles, which are extremely tiny. But… most of these particles leave the mouth and nose in much larger droplets that become smaller through evaporation as they move away from the body. Trapping droplets with the mask means not nearly as many viral particles escape. When an infected person is not wearing a mask, those particles can float through the air 30 feet or more and stay alive for up to 30 hours.”

“I’ve heard so many misconceptions about cloth masks. Some people think that if you wear a mask for long periods of time you will trap and breathe in excess amounts of carbon dioxide, which could lead to brain damage. That’s just not true.”

“Our studies show that, if constructed properly with high-quality materials, a homemade cloth mask can function as well as or better than a surgical mask.”

“Nonmedical face masks will become an increasingly important way, in conjunction with frequent hand washing and social distancing, to prevent the resurgence of disease.”

“We know that during the first wave of the pandemic, those countries that implemented masking early were more successful than others at reducing the spread of the virus. Wearing a mask doesn’t mean that you are weak or afraid or a coward. It’s a way to protect the vulnerable around you. It’s our duty to keep each other healthy.”
 
alnav said:
Recent Article from Stanford Medicine: http://med.stanford.edu/news/all-ne...ntists-contribute-to-who-mask-guidelines.html

5 Questions: Stanford scientists on COVID-19 mask guidelines

Some excerpts that address recent questions on this thread:

“We’ve learned that as many as 40% of people infected with the virus that causes COVID-19 may have no symptoms. But when they talk, cough or sneeze, they can still spread the virus to others in the form of respiratory droplets expelled into the air. Those droplets evaporate into fine particles that may linger. The mask traps these larger droplets before they can evaporate. So, wearing a mask regularly can prevent spreading at the source even when we don’t know we are sick.”

“Many people argue that cloth masks can’t be effective because they can’t filter out viral particles, which are extremely tiny. But… most of these particles leave the mouth and nose in much larger droplets that become smaller through evaporation as they move away from the body. Trapping droplets with the mask means not nearly as many viral particles escape. When an infected person is not wearing a mask, those particles can float through the air 30 feet or more and stay alive for up to 30 hours.”

“I’ve heard so many misconceptions about cloth masks. Some people think that if you wear a mask for long periods of time you will trap and breathe in excess amounts of carbon dioxide, which could lead to brain damage. That’s just not true.”

“Our studies show that, if constructed properly with high-quality materials, a homemade cloth mask can function as well as or better than a surgical mask.”

“Nonmedical face masks will become an increasingly important way, in conjunction with frequent hand washing and social distancing, to prevent the resurgence of disease.”

“We know that during the first wave of the pandemic, those countries that implemented masking early were more successful than others at reducing the spread of the virus. Wearing a mask doesn’t mean that you are weak or afraid or a coward. It’s a way to protect the vulnerable around you. It’s our duty to keep each other healthy.”
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Opinions from a California University that is an incubator of liberalism.

You should wear your mask. For whatever reason.
 
El Capitan said:
Opinions from a California University that is an incubator of liberalism.

You should wear your mask. For whatever reason.
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Stanford is one of the finest research schools in the world. The only sniff you would ever get there is as a janitor.

Go back under the rock you crawled out from last month. Your 15 minutes of troll fame is over. You been have shown to be a racist and just plain stupid.
 
MonacoMike said:
How can a drug approved by the FDA for 50 years be dangerous?
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Heart issues were a known side effect of hydroxychloroquine going in. Covid patients seem to be more susceptible because of the operation of the virus so putting the two together may be a bad combination. I think the jury may still out on that, but enough evidence existed for the FDA to issue its warning and withdraw the authorization for use.

See: https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safe...oroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or.
 
MonacoMike said:
How can a drug approved by the FDA for 50 years be dangerous?
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Drugs are formulated for specific purposes. All of the testing and eventual approval for use by the public (through their doctors) is based on those specific purposes. Hydroxychloroquine was originally designed, tested, approved and used for Malaria. Somehow it was found to be an effective treatment for Lupus. If you read some of the background material it has some pretty nasty side effects. As a result, it only gets proscribed in cases where the risk of side effects outweighs the possible benefits. It’s not uncommon for drugs to be used for other uses. During the test phase not only bad side effects are discovered but also good ones.
 
New study out of the University of North Carolina on how the virus spreads and the importance of masking.
Researchers map how coronavirus infection travels through cells of nasal cavity and respiratory tract
A major study of coronavirus infection in human airways adds to evidence that wearing a mask is an important protective step toward limiting transmission of COVID-19.
“If the nose is the dominant initial site from which lung infections are seeded, then the widespread use of masks to protect the nasal passages, as well as any therapeutic strategies that reduce virus in the nose, such as nasal irrigation or antiviral nasal sprays, could be beneficial,”
https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)30675-9
https://www.unc.edu/posts/2020/06/0...-cells-of-nasal-cavity-and-respiratory-tract/

Anybody who wants to accuse UNC of being liberal, feel free. I will certify as an alumnus that it's totally true, not that it matters as to the quality of the research, especially in the health care arena.
 
alnav said:
New study out of the University of North Carolina on how the virus spreads and the importance of masking.
Researchers map how coronavirus infection travels through cells of nasal cavity and respiratory tract
A major study of coronavirus infection in human airways adds to evidence that wearing a mask is an important protective step toward limiting transmission of COVID-19.
“If the nose is the dominant initial site from which lung infections are seeded, then the widespread use of masks to protect the nasal passages, as well as any therapeutic strategies that reduce virus in the nose, such as nasal irrigation or antiviral nasal sprays, could be beneficial,”
https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)30675-9
https://www.unc.edu/posts/2020/06/0...-cells-of-nasal-cavity-and-respiratory-tract/

Anybody who wants to accuse UNC of being liberal, feel free. I will certify as an alumnus that it's totally true, not that it matters as to the quality of the research, especially in the health care arena.
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Al, I’m a believer that 2+2=4 whether your conservative, communist, socialist, liberal, or unitarian. And Covid certainly doesn’t care what color state you live in.

I tried to read the cell.com document and it had too much technical jargon for me to follow. The unc.edu document appears to be an executive summary type report of the study published above is an interesting stuff. It turns the masks don’t prevent thing on its head by suggesting they can block stuff from getting up the nose.

The notion that the Virus incubation location is the nasal cavity also makes me wonder what impact histamine reactions would have and whether an intentional histamine reaction could be used as a preventative measure. The histamine reaction to Pollen generates A runny nose that by its very nature is the body’s way of expelling the irritant. Of course that would truly make used Kleenex hazardous waste.

As anyone who has ever had a sinus infection knows, nasal irrigation means pouring a liquid in one nostril and letting it pour out the other. Not fun, and I really think based on the to mask, or not to mask debate, should the debate become to irrigate your nose, or not, American civilization is doomed.
 
alnav said:
Heart issues were a known side effect of hydroxychloroquine going in. Covid patients seem to be more susceptible because of the operation of the virus so putting the two together may be a bad combination. I think the jury may still out on that, but enough evidence existed for the FDA to issue its warning and withdraw the authorization for use.

See: https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safe...oroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or.
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It is the combination of antibiotics and Hydroxychloroquine that is contraindicated only in known cardiac patients.
Hydroxychloroquine has been safely used for decades.
But of course since that drug was uttered by Trump, well then it’s killing people v
 
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