The Truth about COVID -19

I know I have been exposed to it at least a few times. March 10th at bowling 3 of the guys there were diagnosed with it. Not sure how close I got to them that night or if I had even talked to them but I'd say there is a pretty good chance I have been exposed to it since then too. When this all started I stayed in the house and only left if absolutely necessary. Now I still take precautions but I'm not going to live the rest of my life in a bubble either. I know the COVID virus is real but they have politicized it so much that I don't believe half of what they say anymore and it is their own fault.
 
Creekwood said:
We are finding a different balance in Canada. That is my point. Cases are down and we are now re-opening. In Ontario we are now starting Phase 3 re-opening. Some businesses will remain closed for now. There is a summary on the site link below if you are curious. https://www.ontario.ca/page/framework-reopening-our-province-stage-3

There is a balance. In America you are choosing to have a prolonged COVID case load and many, but not all, are making the slight inconvenience of mask wearing a political statement and an attack on the constitution. That's your choice. There are many Americans that are choosing to do what they can to reduce the spread. Even if masks are 10% effective, it reduces the transmission. Make your choice, but realize that the balance involves lots more people getting sick before things turn around.
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The sick are sick, the dead are dead, sorry if the sounds callous, but it is real life. I am over the BS that restrictions and mask wear for covid are without any consequences. We know from decades of research that for each additional 1% of unemployment there is a corresponding increase in the death rate.

A Swedish study found: "Results. Unemployment was associated with an increased risk of suicide and death from undetermined causes. Low education, personality characteristics, use of sleeping pills or tranquilizers, and serious or long-lasting illness tended to strengthen the association between unemployment and early mortality."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448606/

This blog links several studies that found serious consequences for the unemployed.

Conclusion of this blog: it would be highly irresponsible for American governments at all levels to ignore the established knowledge of a positive link between unemployment and mortality. Those who keep insisting on policies like lockdowns and other arbitrary rules that have caused immense unemployment need to change their policies now and change quickly. Otherwise, they will have a great deal to answer for, namely, excess deaths caused by the policies causing unemployment.

https://mises.org/power-market/death-and-unemployment

I have seen researchers estimate 35,000-50,000 additional deaths per year, per each additional 1% of unemployment. I currently is slightly above 10% from a little below 4% when this all went down. The low estimate is over 200,000 deaths. Do they matter?

These deaths come from suicide, depression, heart disease, alcoholism. drug addiction, etc. We know for sure alcohol sales are through the roof right now...

Covid is not even close to the most important thing on the planet...
 
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Personally, I would think that hard working American's temporarily unemployed due to the COVID pandemic would be doing every last thing they could do to stop the pandemic. Maybe they are. But I do not believe that there are hundreds of thousands MORE Americans killing themselves. And linking forced mask wearing to suicide is a ridiculous circular argument. The mask wearing is being pushed to help END the need for unemployment, not to prolong it.
 
Blueone said:
?
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Based on the 3-stooges style of how this flu has been communicated to the public and the frequency of contradictions plus the disinformation aimed at the public sprinkled in with complete and outright incompetency by the CDC with a side of corruption by the WHO, I doubt there is anything but to conclude all the above is no accident.

The recipe for civil chaos, financial turmoil, confiscation of liberty and the cattle mentality of fear before the slaughter have all come together very nicely to advance a globalized society.

Add to that the fact the Democratic Presidential candidate is arguably suffering from dementia, you just can’t make this stuff up.

The next dilemma to overcome will be mandated wholesale vaccinations, and the clinical impact of it.
 
MonacoMike said:
I believe I read on this very site, Fauci is a “puppet”, he certainly is not a very good one. LOL

“Trump on Monday also retweeted several posts on Twitter that supported the use of hydroxychloroquine. But Dr. Anthony Fauci, an immunologist and director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases who serves on the White House Coronavirus Task Force, addressed the tweets in a Tuesday interview with ABC’s “Good Morning America.”

“The overwhelming prevailing clinical trials that have looked at the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine have indicated that it is not effective in coronavirus disease,” Fauci said.“
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He has probably had enough. He knows now his days are numbered so he has nothing to gain. Trump can't can him yet because he can't completely silence him if he is outside of the inner circle.
 
The problem with the unemployed right now is the Democrats want to pay them significantly for being unemployed. The ones that are really hurting are the small business owners that will lose their business over this. Gov't is paying the unemployed $600 extra per week (on top of regular unemployment benefits). The guy making $500/week normally is now making $1000 per week. And Nancy Pelosi made the comment that these people need this to put food on their table. They are now making more than the average worker in this country.
 
Creekwood said:
Personally, I would think that hard working American's temporarily unemployed due to the COVID pandemic would be doing every last thing they could do to stop the pandemic. Maybe they are. But I do not believe that there are hundreds of thousands MORE Americans killing themselves. And linking forced mask wearing to suicide is a ridiculous circular argument. The mask wearing is being pushed to help END the need for unemployment, not to prolong it.
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La-di-da, la-di-da. So I'm supposed to believe politically charged studies on mask wear and believe them without question, but you just cannot believe the results of 50+ years of study from all over the world?

EDIT: These deaths come from suicide, depression, heart disease, alcoholism. drug addiction, etc. We know for sure alcohol sales are through the roof right now...
 
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El Capitan said:
Based on the 3-stooges style of how this flu has been communicated to the public and the frequency of contradictions plus the disinformation aimed at the public sprinkled in with complete and outright incompetency by the CDC with a side of corruption by the WHO, I doubt there is anything but to conclude all the above is no accident.

The recipe for civil chaos, financial turmoil, confiscation of liberty and the cattle mentality of fear before the slaughter have all come together very nicely to advance a globalized society.
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I often ask the question, if it isn't rigged, how can it always go against what I believe and want for our country? If the same happened at a blackjack table I would leave...
 
Creekwood said:
He has probably had enough. He knows now his days are numbered so he has nothing to gain. Trump can't can him yet because he can't completely silence him if he is outside of the inner circle.
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Love you man! You really want to believe the power maybe more than I distrust them...
 
Creekwood said:
Personally, I would think that hard working American's temporarily unemployed due to the COVID pandemic would be doing every last thing they could do to stop the pandemic. Maybe they are. But I do not believe that there are hundreds of thousands MORE Americans killing themselves. And linking forced mask wearing to suicide is a ridiculous circular argument. The mask wearing is being pushed to help END the need for unemployment, not to prolong it.
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Temporary is 2 weeks, not 4 months. People have and are losing their LIVELIHOODS. What is the latest report, something like 60% of bars and restaurants will never reopen? Is that temporary to you? WTF......................
 
OllieC said:
Temporary is 2 weeks, not 4 months. People have and are losing their LIVELIHOODS. What is the latest report, something like 60% of bars and restaurants will never reopen? Is that temporary to you? WTF......................
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You are pouncing on one word in what I posted. And implying I don't care about lost jobs. I am VERY aware of the financial impact it is causing. And I am NOT arguing trading suicides for COVID deaths.

What I am saying is the solution to unemployment and deaths and hospitalizations due to the virus, is to get the f-ing virus gone as soon as possible. My beef is with the huge number of people that are turning masks into something other than what it is. Masks are one small part of an overall set of recommendations by real medical professionals, to slow this pandemic. And the fact that other countries are making much more progress than the US is. And that is because of views like yours and many others.

I get it. Your view is open the whole thing up and let the virus do its thing. The vast majority of the world's medical professionals do not share your view. Sorry.

If you don't like what your politicians are doing, remember that in November. A few people here have said COVID will go away November 3rd. Like COVID ( a global issue) is some US democratic government creation. I have news for you. It won't go away November 3rd no matter who gets elected.
 
Creekwood said:
Personally, I would think that hard working American's temporarily unemployed due to the COVID pandemic would be doing every last thing they could do to stop the pandemic. Maybe they are.
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Many don't want it to end. Thanks to Pelosi and her fellow Dems most unemployed are making more now than they ever have in their life and probably ever will. I personally know 3 or 4 people that lost their jobs due to COVID and not one of them wanted to go back when they were called. One tried to refuse it but was told by his employer that he would lose his unemployment. One didn't want to go back and put in for retirement last week. One was on my team and wanted to work but knew he would lose money by going back (and he was making about $80,000). He even told me on the phone one day that they were 'throwing money at me left and right for not working'. If you could double your income by staying home and relying on Pelosi to get the package extended would you be in a hurry to go back?

Currently the Dems want to give the unemployed and extra $600/week again under the new package. The Replublicans want to give them $200/week. I'm ok with getting everyone back to where they are making what they made before when they were working. Let's face it, it isn't their fault they are not working so get them back to even until this is over but don't double their wages.
 
I believe at least half, and probably more, of the harm to impacted businesses has been caused by individual decisions to stay safe. For example, the index of year-over-year change in seated restaurant diners was down 86% before President Trump imposed the shutdown on March 16. Government actions have only made up a small part of the subsequent reductions. This is because people are not stupid and will not willingly submit themselves to the risk of infection. Since the risk increases with age, the tendency we are seeing for infection rates in the young to grow makes sense. I don't think Baby Boomers will come out in big numbers until they feel safe. They generally don't have to go to work and also have the wherewithal to remain hunkered down pretty much indefinitely.

Feeling safe means being in an area with a low rate of infection that is demonstrably under control as indicated by the statistics most can access and interpret for themselves. It also means being comfortable while out and about. Seeing covidiots flouting mask and social distancing norms will not inspire confidence but wreak terror in those who are the most concerned. As has been said in other threads on this subject, these people have the right to stay away from the danger and I expect they will and for a long time. Recent spikes have certainly been noticed and only increase the concern of those at risk. I don't think telling these folks that infection is inevitable will resonate and certainly won't lead to them emerging from self-isolation.

So, the best strategy would be to do anything and everything to bring down the infection rate and keep it down as the key to restoring the economy along with the jobs and businesses that have been impacted. Other countries and even U.S. states have been able to do this and there wouldn't appear to be a reason why it cannot be done everywhere. Instead, we have the highest number of cases per capita of large countries and are closing in on the highest per capita death rate.

I'm afraid that individuals and businesses which are involved in (or related to) mass in-person entertainment/sports or dining and drinking are inevitably going to suffer from economic depression for an extended period, even if government were to magically remove all pandemic restrictions. Just as happens as a result of other disruptions like those caused by innovation we have gotten through, there is going to be a massive shift in business and employment as a result.
 
NC ordered mask wearing 34 days ago. Covid cases have increased since the order. Compliance with the order is very high in urban areas. Not so much in rural areas.

When is mask wearing going to begin stopping the spread in NC?

NY did not flatten the curve with mask wearing it was done by a complete shutdown of the economy. NYC has still not reopened they just ended the mandatory shelter in place order and allowed dining on sidewalks.
 
alnav, I'm a boomer, and a cancer survivor. How about letting everyone decide for themselves the risk they are willing to take. Open everything and let individuals decide. If I am worried for myself I can stay locked down. If not, I can go on living a normal life. You say individual choice made a huge difference before the lock downs, well then let that choice continue. We do not need government making that choice for us.
 
fr8dog said:
alnav, I'm a boomer, and a cancer survivor. How about letting everyone decide for themselves the risk they are willing to take. Open everything and let individuals decide. If I am worried for myself I can stay locked down. If not, I can go on living a normal life. You say individual choice made a huge difference before the lock downs, well then let that choice continue. We do not need government making that choice for us.
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I thought that was what I was saying.
 
"So, the best strategy would be to do anything and everything to bring down the infection rate and keep it down as the key to restoring the economy along with the jobs and businesses that have been impacted."

I guess I took that as you saying lock downs were a good thing.
 
JimT said:
NC ordered mask wearing 34 days ago. Covid cases have increased since the order. Compliance with the order is very high in urban areas. Not so much in rural areas.

When is mask wearing going to begin stopping the spread in NC?

NY did not flatten the curve with mask wearing it was done by a complete shutdown of the economy. NYC has still not reopened they just ended the mandatory shelter in place order and allowed dining on sidewalks.
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Ok, so what is it that is so unique about the US situation that is keeping you both with continuing high new COVID cases/hospitalizations/deaths AND a shut down economy?
 
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