The Official 450 Express Bridge Owners Club

keithmo said:
I use the same Racor filters. One thing to note -- it's important to occasionally drain the globe below the filters. Mine had not been done in a very long time and brown growth had accumulated. It was so thick it wouldn't drain with the bottom open unless I poked something through the hole! Very messy job.

Do you keep both Racors open at once and replace together, or one at a time? My local boat shop recommended one at a time, usually changing one filter per year. I'm giving it a try.
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Thanks for the tip about draining the globe. I will be doing that soon.
I was advised to run one Racor filter at a time on the theory that if you get a clog, you can flip the lever over to the other filter to hopefully keep going. Thankfully, I haven't had to test the theory yet.
 
Agree with one at a time, that is why there are two. If the power drops off, pull to idle and check the vacuum guage. If you flip and the vacuum drops you can get back underway and change the other filter. With that said, something plugged the filter which means you may be in for a few more changes until you get home and figure out where the contamination came from.

You can also install a "water in fuel" sensor in the bowl that goes in the port off to the side of the drain cock (if the marine filters have that port). Helps predict if/when you have a water issue or need to drain the bowl. The Racor filters have Aqua Block and they will block and seperate a small amount of water, but if your fuel is really wet they swell closed...if water in fuel light comes on you can switch and drain the bowl, then go back to the original filter (check the vacuum guage). If the vacuum goes right back up you have to change filter, and may be headed for a few more swaps.

Screenshot_20210513-181516_DuckDuckGo.jpg
 
Shoyrtt said:
Thanks for the tip about draining the globe. I will be doing that soon.
I was advised to run one Racor filter at a time on the theory that if you get a clog, you can flip the lever over to the other filter to hopefully keep going. Thankfully, I haven't had to test the theory yet.
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Forrestkk said:
Agree with one at a time, that is why there are two. If the power drops off, pull to idle and check the vacuum guage. If you flip and the vacuum drops you can get back underway and change the other filter. With that said, something plugged the filter which means you may be in for a few more changes until you get home and figure out where the contamination came from.

You can also install a "water in fuel" sensor in the bowl that goes in the port off to the side of the drain cock (if the marine filters have that port). Helps predict if/when you have a water issue or need to drain the bowl. The Racor filters have Aqua Block and they will block and seperate a small amount of water, but if your fuel is really wet they swell closed...if water in fuel light comes on you can switch and drain the bowl, then go back to the original filter (check the vacuum guage). If the vacuum goes right back up you have to change filter, and may be headed for a few more swaps.

View attachment 105158
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Since you guys are both site sponsors I'm guessing you're familiar with this?

http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/diesel-fuel-management.84670/

Trying to help, love the 450EB
 
techmitch said:
Since you guys are both site sponsors I'm guessing you're familiar with this?

http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/diesel-fuel-management.84670/

Trying to help, love the 450EB
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Thanks Mitch! I have read that post by Frank a few times now. I have also followed his advice on my 3126s over in the diesel engine section. Is there anything that Frank doesn't know???? It is great to have so many resources here on CSR. And thanks for the help!

Forrestkk said:
Good write up, thanks for sharing!

I am a religious user of additive with a biocide, but that does nothing for rust sediment. Fortunately I live in Florida, so no cold weather gelling, but moisture is another story...lol.
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For the boat, I am lucky not to need anything for cold weather or moisture. I do run the Power Service Diesel Kleen + Cetane Boost to keep the injectors clean. My fuel supplier in Long Beach is really busy and a very reliable as a source of good fuel. :)
 
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Here is an interesting video that brings back some memories. Haul out of a 1999 450 EB in Marina Del Rey. They take a shot of the HIN and discuss the production number. This one is #545, so it was the 45th off the line.
 
Shoyrtt said:
Here is an interesting video that brings back some memories. Haul out of a 1999 450 EB in Marina Del Rey. They take a shot of the HIN and discuss the production number. This one is #545, so it was the 45th off the line.
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And for a follow up, here is the USCG documentation on this boat. Built in March of 1999 at the Palm Coast plant.
SeaRay450USCGdoc.jpg
 
If you don't know, and/or did not notice in the video, look at the ER vents behind the rear slings. SR did a terrible job with these vents. The openings were just routed out and the plastic vent covers installed with caulk. These hull sides are cored and it did not take long for these vents to leak water into the core (either by haul outs or general use).

(In the video, at about 1:45, look closely, you will see the straps have pulled the port side ER cover up. I'm sure the same thing has happened on Strb.)

If you haven't already, remove these vents and epoxy the core edges, then reinstall the vents with good caulking. At a minimum, re-caulk and keep an eye on them.

Just my .02

Thanks
Larry
 
LMBoat said:
If you don't know, and/or did not notice in the video, look at the ER vents behind the rear slings. SR did a terrible job with these vents. The openings were just routed out and the plastic vent covers installed with caulk. These hull sides are cored and it did not take long for these vents to leak water into the core (either by haul outs or general use).

(In the video, at about 1:45, look closely, you will see the straps have pulled the port side ER cover up. I'm sure the same thing has happened on Strb.)

If you haven't already, remove these vents and epoxy the core edges, then reinstall the vents with good caulking. At a minimum, re-caulk and keep an eye on them.

Just my .02

Thanks
Larry
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Good info, thx! Had my surveyor sound and check for moisture around ours. Nothing major, but pulling them as soon as we get the boat back and sealing the hull around them and reseating.

My other big concern is the exhaust elbows and that if they leak they can drain back into the turbo and eventually down into a cylinder. Pulling and inspecting them right away too. Another 450 EB owner on SBMAR had bis rebuilt so that can't happen. I am going to spend a good bit of time figuring out how to rework mine as well.
 
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LMBoat said:
If you don't know, and/or did not notice in the video, look at the ER vents behind the rear slings. SR did a terrible job with these vents. The openings were just routed out and the plastic vent covers installed with caulk. These hull sides are cored and it did not take long for these vents to leak water into the core (either by haul outs or general use).

(In the video, at about 1:45, look closely, you will see the straps have pulled the port side ER cover up. I'm sure the same thing has happened on Strb.)

If you haven't already, remove these vents and epoxy the core edges, then reinstall the vents with good caulking. At a minimum, re-caulk and keep an eye on them.

Just my .02

Thanks
Larry
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Larry,
I had read that some of the early 450 EBs had problems in this area when we were buying last year. I had my surveyor check carefully for moisture and he claimed everything was ok and gave me the readings. I’m thinking I may want to take a look again just in case. Just another project to tackle. :D
 
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That makes sense. I know the early ones in '99 had this issue. Mine was the 35th built. It would make sense that SR became aware of this problem and fixed it during the run. I knew about this problem when we were shopping for these. Some were repaired by SR, others fixed by owners. Mine had an elevated moisture in this area according to a moisture meter, but when I did the repair, all the core was dry. But I sleep better at night knowing it has been repaired correctly.
 
Larry, what type of epoxy did you use? It looks like the vent/covers are inserted from the outside. Is there anything inside the engine room holding them in? I know the fuel tanks on both sides are right there so any inside work will take my best crawling and contortionist skills. :D
Here is a screen shot of the vent being pulled up by the sling on the YouTube video (just in case the video disappears).
SeaRay450ERVent.jpg
 
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Yes, they are installed from the outside. There are a few screws that hold the vent in place (no bolts, fancy fittings, etc, at least on my boat). I don't remember the epoxy I used. I scrapped out some of the wood coring (about 1" or so deep all around the opening), then did one coat of just plain epoxy to soak in well, let that cure, then next coat, I used some filler to make it thicker and "buttered it" into the void. Let it cure, then reinstalled the vent with new caulking. Not a difficult or expensive job. I guess you could do this in the water if you have a floating dock, floating platform, etc. but I did mine when on the hard.

You might get lucky when you pull the vent and see that someone has already made this repair/improvement. Then you can just inspect, re-caulk, reinstall.

FYI, the same issue exists with the port hole windows, but not as bad. They don't get the abuse from haul out straps, and are sturdier. Check them as well. At minimum, I would re-caulk them
 
LMBoat said:
Yes, they are installed from the outside. There are a few screws that hold the vent in place (no bolts, fancy fittings, etc, at least on my boat). I don't remember the epoxy I used. I scrapped out some of the wood coring (about 1" or so deep all around the opening), then did one coat of just plain epoxy to soak in well, let that cure, then next coat, I used some filler to make it thicker and "buttered it" into the void. Let it cure, then reinstalled the vent with new caulking. Not a difficult or expensive job. I guess you could do this in the water if you have a floating dock, floating platform, etc. but I did mine when on the hard.

You might get lucky when you pull the vent and see that someone has already made this repair/improvement. Then you can just inspect, re-caulk, reinstall.

FYI, the same issue exists with the port hole windows, but not as bad. They don't get the abuse from haul out straps, and are sturdier. Check them as well. At minimum, I would re-caulk them
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Thank you for your reply. I just want to confirm on your boat there were no screws accessible from only inside the engine room that I will have to deal with. I could see a huge nightmare if I were to break a vent trying to remove them. I have done a few fiberglass repairs over the years, but I would like to avoid covering myself with baby powder to avoid the itch in the future. :eek:
 
Forrestkk said:
HELM CONFIGURATIONS

As I look forward to upgrades, I thought it would be interesting to see everyone's helm configuration. Here is our helm.

View attachment 105007

I am supposed to be getting a second Garmin 5212 with the boat that is uninstalled, so I am trying to figure out how to install it below the glare shield (hoping to relocate the VHF and extend that Starboard plastic enough to fit in the second 5212). Also, looking to remove inoperative equipment like whatever the Raytheon display is between the tachs, the Garmin Fishfinder, and what looks like the old VHF speaker. Have no idea how to delete or repair the vessel monitor panel. Have seen the thread on Maretron upgrade, but that is more time than I am willing to put in for a monitor. Currently, there are just horns for engine sweet water temps. I am going to add exhaust temp sensors for raw water flow warning, and tempted to install low oil pressure and bilge level warning horns.

Would love to see all of your helm configs.
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Here is a shot of my 2002 helm. All original equipment; no thrusters. I am definitely interested in any of the upgrades you are considering. Right now, I rely on Navionics on an iPad for navigation
upload_2021-5-20_7-34-15.png
 
I have a new topic for you: Propeller Pitch. The original prop specs for the 450 EB is 23" diameter, 26" pitch (I verified with Sea Ray). My boat came with original and spare props that were re-pitched by a previous owner to 27" pitch. He lived on the upper Tennessee River and wanted to run the boat at low RPMs only, with increased speeds, particularly in idle. The target RPM for CAT 3126's is 2800 at WOT. My survey and 2 previous show a max RPM of 2400 at WOT. Since 1" pitch change creates a 200 RPM change, I re-pitched my spares down to 25", hoping to increase max RPMs by 400 to 2800. No luck. I purchased a hand-held tachometer and checked the RPMs myself, and I'm only getting up to 2500 at WOT. I know there are many other factors, but the bottom was clean, empty water and holding tanks, full fuel tanks, and not overloaded with extra "stuff".

I would be interested in your prop configurations, and your RPM performance. I'm really not sure what to do next.
Thanks!
 
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First off, are you sure your throttle cables are pushing the fuel levers to the full stops on the injection pumps? Are you getting max no load speed in neutral at the dock? One of mine was not, once fixed, I got full RPMs, especially on the engine where the injector pump is outboard (difficult access to adjust). On the 6CTA's, that's the strb engine

I'm spinning 23 x 24 H-cup props. My 6cta should do 2,600 max. I'm there on port and a bit higher on strb. i know the Cummins guys say 2650 min, but after 10 years and 1,700 hours, no issues <knock on wood>. Every haul out I think about taking some pitch out, but the boat runs well and I've had no engine issues <again, knock on wood)

PS, I don't have a hydo lift or 2 8D's for the thruster. I do have a thruster, but it's wired to the strb batt. So I maybe 1,000 lbs lighter then some
 
Keith, I can only guess that I am running the original spec props on my boat. I took a look at my engine survey and it was only tested without a load. 3200 and 3300 RPM WOT, again without a load on my 3126s in the survey. On the water I have had it 2800 RPM during the sea trial, but I'm not sure if the original tachs are accurate. This was immediately following the haul-out and the bottom was freshly powerwashed and cleaned. For everyday cruising I tend to run at or just above the point where I can hear the turbos spool up which is about 2200-2300 RPM and the boat seems to be happy. If the weather cooperates, we are going out tomorrow and I will see if it hits 2800 WOT. As far as weight, I also don't have a hydro platform and I'm really light on battery weight. I do lug around the 10' dinghy that wasn't around for the sea trial so that could slow things down.
 
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