Sterndrive for Big Express Cruisers?

I also wonder how the pod vs vdrive paradigm shift will shake out. Early technology adopters tend to pay a premium and risk getting stuck with immature or abandoned designs. Owners of recently purchased old technology risk huge loss of value if the new technology proves to be a home run. The lesson to me given that I am cheap and cautious - now is not the time to buy new.
 
I wanted to provide you my experience with outdrives as the decison to purchase a vessel with outdrives was not as maintence free as I originally thought it would be.

My personal experience with outdrives is limited to three seasons owning a 2001 310 with Bravo Three's. The boat reamined in water April to Dec, and dry-stored Dec. to April. The last season of ownership I switched to only dry storage. I determined it was less expensive based on the amount of dollars I put out for maintenance vs the additional cost for dry storage fees.

I was a bit disappointed with what I believe was an excessive corrosion problem with the outdrives as the zincs needed replacing about every 90 days. It was explained to me that due to the SS duo props, the aluminum outdrives really took a beating. I undersatnd that this issue has been corrected by Mercury Marine with added cathodic protection? The initial corrosion problem required both outdrives to be removed, sand blasted and painted. (Mercury Marine warranted this work). The third year I had to have the shift cables on the stbd' outdrive replaced due to excessive corrosion. One bellows lost integrity and fortunately I was aboard at the time, or I feel the water intake would have eventually overtaken the battery life supporting the bilge pumps. Fortunately, the marina I have membership with provides free lifting for those with boats up to 15K pounds. I can imagine the costs one could incur if they owned a vessel that required lifting more than once a year at a cost. A last note...one of the conditions in my selling agreement was to have the outdrives painted again.

I purchased the 310 thinking I would have experienced less maintenance. I'm back in a 400 Sedan Bridge and the out-of- water maintenance is back to what I have been used to. I can also budget for knowns which are 50. 00 a month for a diver and I'll pull her late next year for new paint, zincs and some prop verification.

Good luck in which ever way you decide to go and thanks for asking.:thumbsup:
 
Some one in the thread touched on a point that I also wanted to make. It is much easier for a boat builder to cut a hole and bolt in a sterndrive or Pod Drive package than to have to "engineer" (using the term loosely) an inboard drive train that they also have to take repsonsibilty for designing. So often "New technolgy" is really code talk for "we found a cheaper way to make it". It also gives the marketing folks a tool to get you to sell your current boat and buy a new one with it's "New technology".

For you fans of the POD drive (Zeus/Axuis etc) I have one word for you. "L-Drive"
Do any of you remember that whiz-bang drive system brought to you by Bayliner/Force/Mercury/Brunswick? It was almost a POD drive. When L-drive boats were only a couple of years old, we refused to service or sell (broker) them. They broke constantly and you could not get parts for them since they were quickly dropped from production. You could not give those boats away. Nobody would touch them.

Large boats (36ft and up) last much longer than cars, jet skiis or runabouts. If you spend 300K plus on a new large cruiser uniquely configured with the latest "new technology/new marketing" drive system I would not keep it too long. The boat is likely to age more gracefully than the drivetrain. If that happens and the drive system is now out of production the value of your boat will drop like a rock. Figure that into your "fuel savings" justification for buying one. If you only keep it for a couple years, you will probably be ok. But at some point someone is going to get stuck with a non-serviceable boat.

GPS to hold a boat in positon with the engines. When are you really going to use that? Going to take a swim behind the boat while those props are randomly spinning one direction or the other? (I am sure someone will and then sue). I actually have a system on my boat that does this and saves fuel over the POD/GPS position holding system. You might be interested in it. It is mounted on the bow and is called "ANCHOR". It is a miracle of "New technology"
 
Gerikson,

I am cynical enough to agree with the hesitation to buy a pod drive system. But I am optimistic enough to acknowledge it may very well work and takeover. Remember, there was a lot of talk against manufacturers who switched to fiberglass about 40 years ago.

The motivations of boat builder's decisions are less relevant than the results. The pod system is too new IMO to be judged accurately..... But, yes, at the price point, someone else will be the test pilot.
 
geriksen said:
For you fans of the POD drive (Zeus/Axuis etc) I have one word for you. "L-Drive"
Do any of you remember that whiz-bang drive system brought to you by Bayliner/Force/Mercury/Brunswick?
Click to expand...

Yes, I was one of the unfortunate few to have bought the “L”drive in the mid 90’s. The service techs would shake their heads and laugh when I frequently tried to find someone that would fix it. We called this boat our “Bilgeliner with the Farce engine.”

It came as no surprise that no one wanted it and I became convinced that it might make it a suitable “fish haven”. Thankfully, our friendly local SeaRay dealer, in a moment of weakness, took it on trade. Not a terrible move on his part as I did end up buying two boats from him.

Regarding the original topic of this thread, according to the new January BoatUS statistics, a leaking bellows is the #1 reason I/O boats sink at the dock – 44%.
 
The pod drive system has been around for several decades. Most tug boats have them. For fuel economy the issue is not pod vs. v drives vs. straight drives vs. outboard....greater than this is hull design. It is in radical need of change. The v hull is more dead than the v drive. A 30 foot cat with twin low hp outboards will cruise at 19 knots at 4 GPH and have the same interior room as a 40 to 45 footer.

My 2 cents.
 
Where these ideas about boat design, performance and economy come from both amazes and amuse me.............

I was talking with the sales manager at our dealer last week. They just ordered a new 44DA w/ Zeus drives and the next available delivery slot is in August 2008 and the list price of the boat will be $759K, under present pricing, i.e. no further increases. They also just received a 44DA with QSC Cummins that lists for $597K....that is over $160K for the Zues option. How much diesel fuel will you have to save to make that one make sense?

And, "the v-hull is more dead than the v-drive" comment and the following one favoring outboard catamarans are really quite amusing........you obviously haven't had the pleasure of nearly being beaten to death on an off ashore trip in a catamaran. As long as the owners use their boats in coastal conditions, there will be v-hulls and as long as the pod drive option cost is more than 25% of the cost of the whole boat then v-drives are far from dead.
 
Well on a Formula at least, IPS is cheaper than V-drives. This is from the article listed below:

The IPS version weights about 1700-lbs less
The IPS model costs $19,620 (MSRP) Less that the V-drive model
The IPS system has 280-hp less, total, in the twin installation
The IPS version has a WOT speed of 37.9 mph on our radar gun vs. 36.2 (5% Faster)
The IPS burns at cruise 31.5 gph vs 46.5 for the V-drive version (33% Less)
The IPS has a cruising range of 320 miles vs. 217 miles (47% more range at 90% tankage)
The IPS has the Joy Stick which makes everyone look like a pro and keeps marriages together

http://www.boattest.com/Resources/view_news.aspx?NewsID=439

The only downside that I can see is if the IPS start being fragile and finicky. If the repair cost start adding up after they get a few years old, maybe people will reject them.
 
fwebster said:
..... and as long as the pod drive option cost is more than 25% of the cost of the whole boat then v-drives are far from dead.
Click to expand...

Too funny...and just how long before the cost of pod drives becomes so competitive that v-drives and straight drives become a thing of the past? If your paying attention you'll notice that nearly every high tech item or new product that came to market had a high initial cost and then dropped enough to make it's predecessor obsolete. When is the last time anyone bought a tube tv? wasn't the first Phillips plasma tv like 15k? And there are dozens of examples.
Seems like quite a few v-drive and straight drive owners are a bit defensive.
 
fwebster said:
Where these ideas about boat design, performance and economy come from both amazes and amuse me.............

I was talking with the sales manager at our dealer last week. They just ordered a new 44DA w/ Zeus drives and the next available delivery slot is in August 2008 and the list price of the boat will be $759K, under present pricing, i.e. no further increases. They also just received a 44DA with QSC Cummins that lists for $597K....that is over $160K for the Zues option. How much diesel fuel will you have to save to make that one make sense?
Click to expand...

There is a $23k list price difference between a Regal 4460 with twin Volvo V-drives ($544k) vs twin Volvo IPS 500 drives ($567). It's more, but not anywhere near 100k more. From what I've seen so far on resale, the IPS boats are holding that premium over the V-drive boats for now. We'll see in a few more years, but I spent an hour at the boat show with a Volvo engineer. Seems like they have done their homework on the that drive system. Lazzara is using them on large yachts without problems. I have a Volvo promo video that shows a large sportfisher powered with IPS spinning and backing down on a fish.

In another year or two, I might be ready to put my money down on an IPS drive boat. It'll be years, if ever, before I bet my money on a zeus. Now if Merc wants to give zeus for the same price as a V-drive and with a lifetime free service contract and with a free loaner boat while mine is down for repairs, then I can talk to them. Until then, I'm not playing Mercruiser Roulette.

Best regards,
Frank
 
dpmulvey said:
The v hull is more dead than the v drive.
Click to expand...

You can't have all the current types of boat in a catamaran hull with a 8'6 beam, trailerable boat.
You can't slip a catamaran in today's slip. If we all had catamarans, there would be 50% fewer boats at the marina.
What the other guy said about getting beat up off shore.
The V-hull will be around forever. The drive system will evolve.
 
What we all have to realize as consumers is that the pod drives, by nature of the technology, are less costly to manufacture and service. Stop thinking of it as "new technology" that you have to have. It is a good idea, solves many problems, is well engineered, but most of all is a brilliant scheme to make a boat for less and sell it for more. Anyone who spends more for the pod drives is foolish and enables the manufacturers. Pass the savings onto the consumer and sell more pod drive boats, I say. Economy of scale.
 
Well put Mike!

Also, I would like to add that it is way, way too early to tell anything on the resale $$ of these. I am thinking 5 to 10 yrs out. Like I said, if you change boats every couple years (most people do-even me- look at my list, I am 43 yrs old) then it won't hurt you too bad.

What bothers me is all these boats are designed for the short term initial sale.
Sea Rays do very well at holding their value. That is why I buy them. But what I am seeing built today doesn't look to me like it will age that well.

Look at a Bertram. A 1976 Bertram 46 looks just as good today as any new sportfish on the market.

Sorry to digress from the subject but I worry that this IPS/Zeus thing could be like the L-drive mistake only bigger and a whole generation of boats can be scrapped ten or fifteen years from now.

I could be wrong on this. Only time will tell.

The real debate in my mind is fuel savings vs. depreciation..........
 
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