Starboard 3116 just started being hard to start. Need engine schematic

Boat Guy,

Thanks. There is a rectangular junction box on the motor just above the v-drive. The box has a lid that is latched closed. In the walls of the box are circuit breakers and in the box is a terminal strip and a couple of relays. The square black automotive style relay is the one in question. I will take a couple of pictures next time I am out.

Pete
 
Good write up Pete. Ill check my 3126 junction box and see if I have the same relay and get a spare. Looks like O'Reilly has them for $7.49...
 
I'd be willing to bet the BWD relay that O'Reilly sells is made in China. I use hundreds of relays and components made by Tyco Electronics each year and I am certain they are good quality. The O'Reilly relay may be fine or it may be junk. I'm not going to risk not knowing for $10. Also, the picture of the part on the O'Reilly website does not show the metal mounting bracket. In a high heat, very high vibration situation like the 3116 you really want the best relay that is out there. Check out the specs and you will see this is a quality component. http://www.te.com/commerce/Document...hENG_DS_VF4A-X0000-A001_0312.pdf9-1393305-5
 
My starboard 3126 had the same problem, this is the part the CAT dealer replaced:





I had both sides replaced and carry a spare now.
 
I don't see it.... I looked all over.

Are your Cats the full mechanical? Maybe not on the '97?

peterkvs said:
Boat Guy,

Thanks. There is a rectangular junction box on the motor just above the v-drive. The box has a lid that is latched closed. In the walls of the box are circuit breakers and in the box is a terminal strip and a couple of relays. The square black automotive style relay is the one in question. I will take a couple of pictures next time I am out.

Pete
Click to expand...
 
On pre-'97 model 3116's there is no junction box old style solenoids, not mini-relays are used to drive the fuel supply solenoid. If you have no junction box mounted on the front of the engine, you don't have that type relay.
 
OK, so I bought CAT's relay for $25 and then went to O'Reilly's and got the same part for $6...... you do the math.
 
Pack66Dad said:
Care to share that "O'Reilly's" part number? I wouldn't run it as a primary but for 6 bucks I'd buy a few spares.
Click to expand...
My port engine is running with CAT's part and starboard has the O'Reilly part in it..... BWD - R3112
 
peterkvs said:
So while I had hoped that finding the loose ground wire was the problem I am now not convinced. The schematic showed that it was not the only ground path, but after a reattached the ground to the terminal block all seemed well. Now, whenever switch the start switch to run I listen for the audible clack of the fuel solenoid kicking in. After a few weeks of working fine I noticed that sometimes I would not hear the click when I switched the start switch to run. However switching the start switch off and back on would usually result in the clack. So, I lived with this a week or so. Until the other night. Why is it always at night... Anyway, I was running back in total dark, very dark, and cruising about 8.5 kts at 1300 rpm. All of a sudden the boat slows down and the port engine slowly dies to zero rpm. I put the boat into neutral and restart it and continue on. What I thought was going on was that I was getting into a bunch of mill foil floating down the river which was getting tangled in the props and killing the engine. This happened three of four times in the 30 minute ride home. I finally got tired of the suspected mill foil issue and got up on plane for the remainder of the trip, even though I don't like running on plane in the pitch dark. Laying in bed later I was thinking about the events and wondering what was going on. Why was it only the starboard engine that was dying, never the port. Why would the engine not restart unless I cycled the run switch to off first. Then I had an epiphany, perhaps the engine was dying from the fuel solenoid dropping out and not the mill foil. So the next morning I went out and hooked up a multimeter to the fuel solenoid and switched the run switch to run. I got lucky and there was no clack, and no voltage at the solenoid. I took the meter to the junction box and probed around in there. The 12 V was getting to the coil of the relay in there, and power was getting to the input side of the relay, but nothing was coming out of the relay. So I stared to move the relay to try and unplug it and heard the clack as the relay finally engaged. I swapped out the relay with another similar relay I had in the junk box and it seems to be working again. I'll order the correct relay and a couple of spares today. The original BOSCH Relay description was 12065116. The Bosch part number is 0332204184. However, Bosch relays were bought out by Tyco Electronics. So the proper cross referenced relay description is Tyco VF4-65F11-S01 and the part number is 9-1393305-5. I bought three online for $11.48 each at http://www.onlinecomponents.com/te-connectivity-p-b-brand-vf465f11s01.html?p=12120428 Definitely worth replacing and keeping a spare on hand as it really is the only electronic component on the 3116. Another thing I am thinking about doing is mounting a switch inside the junction box that simply provides power directly to the fuel solenoid. This would be a real emergency start bypass switch and would be a bit easier than having the jumper to the solenoid, though it would require the power to the box and the wire from the box to the solenoid to be good. But if you didn't have power to the junction box the starter would not work anyway. Lastly, you could take it even one more step and put a starter switch in the junction box though that might enable you to start the boat with it in gear. Hmm have to look at the schematics again and see.

Hope this all helps.

Pete
Click to expand...
 
peterkvs said:
I was out on the hook last night and came in to pick up some friends. When I restarted the starboard engine it took 2-3 seconds to start, and normally starts in less than a second. I thought it strange but continued on our journey. A couple hours later I tried to restart the starboard engine and it would not start. It cranked as fast as normal. I cranked it for 10 seconds at a time three or four times with no luck. Then I started making my way back on one engine. After 5 minutes I tried again with no luck. Then about 5 minutes later I tried again and the engine started. It runs perfectly once started. I figure it must be related to the fuel solenoid. I have not been able to diagnose anything since we were entertaining, but will in the morning. I don't know if the solenoid was getting power or not but I figure it must either be the solenoid itself or in the electronics to the solenoid. What would really be a big help would be the 3116 engine electrical schematic. Does anyone have one they can send me?

Any troubleshooting advice would also be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Pete
Click to expand...
I have CAT 3116 Diesels bought it at auction, mechanics lien for dry dock storage.
Anyway,
Bought it unknowing condition of engines,
Bought new 4D battery to try start engines in drydock, no worries, just long enough for them to fire up and idle for a few seconds.
Boat had been winterized so I know there should not be any issues with block or anything.
Checked both engines oil dip stick to look for any sign of milky water infiltration, none found black oil on sticks.

Port engine started right up and went to idle right away, ran for about 10 seconds and shut it down, all good

Changed the battery over to the starboard engine turned ignition and nothing.

Don't have a wiring diagram of the ignition key switch wiring down to the engine or any wiring diagram of the CAT mounted j-box on back of the engine with the reset breaker buttons, relay etc.

If I had a wiring diagram I could check for voltages inside that box to see if I am getting power from key switch.
Any help would be appreciated

A call would let me know I had a response if you would not mind, Im in Maryland
301-788-8780
Thanks again,
 
Jay Jones said:
I have CAT 3116 Diesels bought it at auction, mechanics lien for dry dock storage.
Anyway,
Bought it unknowing condition of engines,
Bought new 4D battery to try start engines in drydock, no worries, just long enough for them to fire up and idle for a few seconds.
Boat had been winterized so I know there should not be any issues with block or anything.
Checked both engines oil dip stick to look for any sign of milky water infiltration, none found black oil on sticks.

Port engine started right up and went to idle right away, ran for about 10 seconds and shut it down, all good

Changed the battery over to the starboard engine turned ignition and nothing.

Don't have a wiring diagram of the ignition key switch wiring down to the engine or any wiring diagram of the CAT mounted j-box on back of the engine with the reset breaker buttons, relay etc.

If I had a wiring diagram I could check for voltages inside that box to see if I am getting power from key switch.
Any help would be appreciated

A call would let me know I had a response if you would not mind, Im in Maryland
301-788-8780
Thanks again,
Click to expand...



first, try finding your battery switches and turning both of them on.
 
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