Starboard 3116 just started being hard to start. Need engine schematic

peterkvs

Active Member
Nov 11, 2012
511
Guntersville, Alabama
Boat Info
400 Sundancer 1999
Engines
3116 Cats, 1000 hours
I was out on the hook last night and came in to pick up some friends. When I restarted the starboard engine it took 2-3 seconds to start, and normally starts in less than a second. I thought it strange but continued on our journey. A couple hours later I tried to restart the starboard engine and it would not start. It cranked as fast as normal. I cranked it for 10 seconds at a time three or four times with no luck. Then I started making my way back on one engine. After 5 minutes I tried again with no luck. Then about 5 minutes later I tried again and the engine started. It runs perfectly once started. I figure it must be related to the fuel solenoid. I have not been able to diagnose anything since we were entertaining, but will in the morning. I don't know if the solenoid was getting power or not but I figure it must either be the solenoid itself or in the electronics to the solenoid. What would really be a big help would be the 3116 engine electrical schematic. Does anyone have one they can send me?

Any troubleshooting advice would also be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Pete
 
Pete, Do you hear any clicking noise? Also, there are a couple of old threads about this.
One was mine. Mine did the same thing. Went to junction box tightened all screws & nuts and that fixed it. I could not go to court on this but I think it was the connection in the box from the fuel solenoid???????? I have not had any trouble after that. Good luck, JC
 
Thanks JC. You may have been spot on. I went to the junction box and found the ground wire had fallen off the junction block. And was just barely touching the screw. So I put it back under the loose screw. Was Terminal 14 which is the ground for the relay and fuel solenoid. I was not able to debug it because it has been working, but the loose ground really should be it. And I did find the schematics in the junction box. Cool.

Thanks,

Pete
 
That's a nice surprise having such an apparently easy fix. I need to open the boxes and check out all connections now.
 
Be careful in the box even with the battery switch off there was 12 V in there which caused some sparks to fly as I was tightening the ground bus screws and accidentally touched the screwdriver to a post on a breaker. I'm not sure why it was hot, maybe from the battery charger still being on. I was surprised that the battery master did not kill everything. That's what I get for assuming.

Pete
 
Be careful in the box even with the battery switch off there was 12 V in there which caused some sparks to fly as I was tightening the ground bus screws and accidentally touched the screwdriver to a post on a breaker. I'm not sure why it was hot, maybe from the battery charger still being on. I was surprised that the battery master did not kill everything. That's what I get for assuming.

Pete

Thanks, as an electrician by trade (before I became stupid enough to move into management), I treat every wire and connection as if it is hot at all times. Kept me alive this long.
 
I have your information, CAT mechanic fixed mine. $20 solenoid. PM tomorrow and I will fax the schematic and part number for you.

Pat
 
Thanks All. I actually found the engine schematics folded up in a ziplock bag in the engine junction box.

Pete
 
Just to update, the engine has been starting flawlessly ever since I put the ground wire back under the screw terminal.

Pete
 
I had a similar issue with my engines.... turn over fine but no boom.... another CSR member (sorry it's late and I am tired & lazy) told me to check the 12 volt relay in that electrical junction box. I pulled it out Bosch part #, I went to O'reilly's auto parts and it was $6.00 !!!!
 
I bought a spare and it's on the boat. The CAT # CC09B12 115-1615 RELAY $25. The old one was BOSCH and I just took it with me to the auto parts store. The clerk just typed in the numbers off of my old relay and asked me how many I wanted @ $6.00 each.
 
Sounds like a good idea to carry a spare and/or replace the original ones as maintenance?
 
Yes, I am carrying 2 spares now. I also carry a 6' piece of wire with an inline fuse and alligator clips on each end. 12 volt positive battery to positive side of your fuel solenoid. Have back up spare fuses in case you touch the negative side of your solenoid. It saved my butt on a few occasions.
 
So while I had hoped that finding the loose ground wire was the problem I am now not convinced. The schematic showed that it was not the only ground path, but after a reattached the ground to the terminal block all seemed well. Now, whenever switch the start switch to run I listen for the audible clack of the fuel solenoid kicking in. After a few weeks of working fine I noticed that sometimes I would not hear the click when I switched the start switch to run. However switching the start switch off and back on would usually result in the clack. So, I lived with this a week or so. Until the other night. Why is it always at night... Anyway, I was running back in total dark, very dark, and cruising about 8.5 kts at 1300 rpm. All of a sudden the boat slows down and the port engine slowly dies to zero rpm. I put the boat into neutral and restart it and continue on. What I thought was going on was that I was getting into a bunch of mill foil floating down the river which was getting tangled in the props and killing the engine. This happened three of four times in the 30 minute ride home. I finally got tired of the suspected mill foil issue and got up on plane for the remainder of the trip, even though I don't like running on plane in the pitch dark. Laying in bed later I was thinking about the events and wondering what was going on. Why was it only the starboard engine that was dying, never the port. Why would the engine not restart unless I cycled the run switch to off first. Then I had an epiphany, perhaps the engine was dying from the fuel solenoid dropping out and not the mill foil. So the next morning I went out and hooked up a multimeter to the fuel solenoid and switched the run switch to run. I got lucky and there was no clack, and no voltage at the solenoid. I took the meter to the junction box and probed around in there. The 12 V was getting to the coil of the relay in there, and power was getting to the input side of the relay, but nothing was coming out of the relay. So I stared to move the relay to try and unplug it and heard the clack as the relay finally engaged. I swapped out the relay with another similar relay I had in the junk box and it seems to be working again. I'll order the correct relay and a couple of spares today. The original BOSCH Relay description was 12065116. The Bosch part number is 0332204184. However, Bosch relays were bought out by Tyco Electronics. So the proper cross referenced relay description is Tyco VF4-65F11-S01 and the part number is 9-1393305-5. I bought three online for $11.48 each at http://www.onlinecomponents.com/te-connectivity-p-b-brand-vf465f11s01.html?p=12120428 Definitely worth replacing and keeping a spare on hand as it really is the only electronic component on the 3116. Another thing I am thinking about doing is mounting a switch inside the junction box that simply provides power directly to the fuel solenoid. This would be a real emergency start bypass switch and would be a bit easier than having the jumper to the solenoid, though it would require the power to the box and the wire from the box to the solenoid to be good. But if you didn't have power to the junction box the starter would not work anyway. Lastly, you could take it even one more step and put a starter switch in the junction box though that might enable you to start the boat with it in gear. Hmm have to look at the schematics again and see.

Hope this all helps.

Pete
 

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