Soft Fore Deck

[DeRudd]

In the market for a 34 Searay Sundancer. Have now come upon 2 in a row with soft fore deck. The broker said this is a flaw in design. Are there certain years that have this issue?
One of the boats, it came up on survey of previous buyer. Buyer backed out. It is a 2006 and I was all over the deck and there are no soft spots or sinking. Broker said it was caught earlier & there is no delamination. Seller is willing to pay for repair with reputable fiberglass company. Repair is 12,000. They plan on removing the deck, removing any & all wet. We would hold money in escrow as well as get letter of intent & contract from fiberglass company. Seller will have boat hauled at end of season to shop where repair will take place over winter. The boat will likely be there for the winter season. The boat has been totally redone and seller was shocked when survey showed moisture. Only other issue on survey was broken foot pedal for windlass.
Thoughts?

 

[Golfman25]

If he’s willing to fix it then I’d stay interested. Just need to verify it’s a proper fix. But it’s a common problem and and particularly in the early 2000s 340 Sundancers. When I was looking, 75% had deck issues. It can be fixed and end up with a perfectly good boat.

 

[copb8tx]

Would you say that these deck issues are more prevalent in Sea Rays, or do most manufacturers have the same issue with boats of this age?

 

[bfernald0]

I haven't heard about any "design flaw" with respect to the deck of 340s. Whenever you have cored fiberglass combined with protrusions through the glass and core, you're going to eventually have moisture getting into the core and causing problems. There are multiple variables. The environment in which the boat is used (lots or rain or not so much), the QC at the factory with respect to the installation and sealing of deck hardware (hatches, stanchions, windlass, etc.), use of the boat (would guess heavy use in seas would lead to more flexing and more leaks). Masterfab would tell you that anyone with a 20 year old SeaRay should remove and rebed the hatches, stanchions and windlass.

I live in SoCal, so I would imagine wet decks are far less of a concern given the relative lack of rain. I'd be far more worried about the issue on any boat if I lived in Seattle. My 2001 340 is rock solid. I plan to remove and rebed the windlass this offseason. Can't say I'll ever get to the stanchions. Might do the three hatches if I get really bored....

The one thing the 2000 era 340s DO NOT have is a cored hull--which is a good thing.

B.

 

[PlaneGuy]

I just had a 2000 340 surveyed and there was no soft areas on the forward deck.

 

[Golfman25]

I haven't heard about any "design flaw" with respect to the deck of 340s. Whenever you have cored fiberglass combined with protrusions through the glass and core, you're going to eventually have moisture getting into the core and causing problems. There are multiple variables. The environment in which the boat is used (lots or rain or not so much), the QC at the factory with respect to the installation and sealing of deck hardware (hatches, stanchions, windlass, etc.), use of the boat (would guess heavy use in seas would lead to more flexing and more leaks). Masterfab would tell you that anyone with a 20 year old SeaRay should remove and rebed the hatches, stanchions and windlass.

I live in SoCal, so I would imagine wet decks are far less of a concern given the relative lack of rain. I'd be far more worried about the issue on any boat if I lived in Seattle. My 2001 340 is rock solid. I plan to remove and rebed the windlass this offseason. Can't say I'll ever get to the stanchions. Might do the three hatches if I get really bored....

The one thing the 2000 era 340s DO NOT have is a cored hull--which is a good thing.

B.

It’s a design issue in that each penetration should be in a non-cored area. That way the core is always sealed. Of course that drives the cost of manufacturing goes up.

 

[Mig22]

Here’s a post that may be of interest
http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php...omplete-pics-and-details-along-the-way.59773/

 

[bfernald0]

It’s a design issue in that each penetration should be in a non-cored area. That way the core is always sealed. Of course that drives the cost of manufacturing goes up.

Well, I'm not sure one can expect that level of craftsmanship in a mass production boat. I'd expect it on a Nordhaven or Grand Banks. Not so sure about a 340 Sundancer.

 

[Golfman25]

Well, I'm not sure one can expect that level of craftsmanship in a mass production boat. I'd expect it on a Nordhaven or Grand Banks. Not so sure about a 340 Sundancer.

Agree. But it’s still a design issue. They could make it right but choose not to because of cost. Problem is many unsuspecting owners are left with a mess.

 

[DeRudd]

If he’s willing to fix it then I’d stay interested. Just need to verify it’s a proper fix. But it’s a common problem and and particularly in the early 2000s 340 Sundancers. When I was looking, 75% had deck issues. It can be fixed and end up with a perfectly good boat.

I haven't heard about any "design flaw" with respect to the deck of 340s. Whenever you have cored fiberglass combined with protrusions through the glass and core, you're going to eventually have moisture getting into the core and causing problems. There are multiple variables. The environment in which the boat is used (lots or rain or not so much), the QC at the factory with respect to the installation and sealing of deck hardware (hatches, stanchions, windlass, etc.), use of the boat (would guess heavy use in seas would lead to more flexing and more leaks). Masterfab would tell you that anyone with a 20 year old SeaRay should remove and rebed the hatches, stanchions and windlass.

I live in SoCal, so I would imagine wet decks are far less of a concern given the relative lack of rain. I'd be far more worried about the issue on any boat if I lived in Seattle. My 2001 340 is rock solid. I plan to remove and rebed the windlass this offseason. Can't say I'll ever get to the stanchions. Might do the three hatches if I get really bored....

The one thing the 2000 era 340s DO NOT have is a cored hull--which is a good thing.

B.

Agree. But it’s still a design issue. They could make it right but choose not to because of cost. Problem is many unsuspecting owners are left with a mess.

The broker said he has seen this often. He thinks we are better off fixing the one that we know has a problem. According to him there are many “unsuspecting owners” out there.

 

[Golfman25]

The broker said he has seen this often. He thinks we are better off fixing the one that we know has a problem. According to him there are many “unsuspecting owners” out there.

As I said, I was looking at 1999-2003 340s and 75% had the issue. Wasted $1000 on a survey only to find half the deck toast. One poor guy bought one unseen and the surveyor “missed” it. He had to have it fixed. It was really an issue of not if, but when. I agree with the broker. If you found an owner willing to fix, that’s the one to buy. Good luck.

 

[Stee6043]

As I said, I was looking at 1999-2003 340s and 75% had the issue. Wasted $1000 on a survey only to find half the deck toast. One poor guy bought one unseen and the surveyor “missed” it. He had to have it fixed. It was really an issue of not if, but when. I agree with the broker. If you found an owner willing to fix, that’s the one to buy. Good luck.

I had the same experience. The prior model 330 had the same issue from what I saw when shopping.

The 340 I ended up buying had the foredeck removed and repaired before I bought it. To the tune of $14k...

I would not walk away from a boat if the owner is willing to repair it. Rotten decks can be repaired to look and feel as good as new...

 

[Gallf1]

Mine was a small area which was caught before it could have become worse.
Having repaired a soft spot in the cored deck of my 2000 38DA, I can tell you that it is not a design flaw but a workmanship issue. During survey a small soft spot (about 12" x 12") was found just outboard of the small ventilation hatch over the mid cabin. I removed the hatch to see what was what and I found that the factory used some sort of butyl foam tape as a hatch to deck sealant and that when it was applied it had shifted over to one side and basically wasn't making a seal. Over time, water had made its way under the hatch and was absorbed by the raw unsealed edges of the balsa core which then wicked its way further out into the deck.
I dug out all of the bad core and filled the void with a thickened epoxy mix. I also sealed all the raw edges of the balsa in the area with epoxy resin and resealed the hatches with copious amounts of LifeCalk. The deck is rock solid now and no chance of water intrusion.

I then pulled the other small hatch over the head and the large hatch over the bed and while they werent leaking or had soft spots, the factory butyl tape was basically dried out and crumbling. I again removed the butyl tape, sealed the raw edges of the balsa with epoxy and reinstalled hatches with LifeCalk.

 

[Golfman25]

Mine was a small area which was caught before it could have become worse.
Having repaired a soft spot in the cored deck of my 2000 38DA, I can tell you that it is not a design flaw but a workmanship issue. During survey a small soft spot (about 12" x 12") was found just outboard of the small ventilation hatch over the mid cabin. I removed the hatch to see what was what and I found that the factory used some sort of butyl foam tape as a hatch to deck sealant and that when it was applied it had shifted over to one side and basically wasn't making a seal. Over time, water had made its way under the hatch and was absorbed by the raw unsealed edges of the balsa core which then wicked its way further out into the deck.
I dug out all of the bad core and filled the void with a thickened epoxy mix. I also sealed all the raw edges of the balsa in the area with epoxy resin and resealed the hatches with copious amounts of LifeCalk. The deck is rock solid now and no chance of water intrusion.

I then pulled the other small hatch over the head and the large hatch over the bed and while they werent leaking or had soft spots, the factory butyl tape was basically dried out and crumbling. I again removed the butyl tape, sealed the raw edges of the balsa with epoxy and reinstalled hatches with LifeCalk.

that construction is by design. Proper way to do it is to leave no exposed core anywhere. Hatches etc should be cut out where there is no core, just solid glass.

 

[bfernald0]

Mine was a small area which was caught before it could have become worse.
Having repaired a soft spot in the cored deck of my 2000 38DA, I can tell you that it is not a design flaw but a workmanship issue. During survey a small soft spot (about 12" x 12") was found just outboard of the small ventilation hatch over the mid cabin. I removed the hatch to see what was what and I found that the factory used some sort of butyl foam tape as a hatch to deck sealant and that when it was applied it had shifted over to one side and basically wasn't making a seal. Over time, water had made its way under the hatch and was absorbed by the raw unsealed edges of the balsa core which then wicked its way further out into the deck.
I dug out all of the bad core and filled the void with a thickened epoxy mix. I also sealed all the raw edges of the balsa in the area with epoxy resin and resealed the hatches with copious amounts of LifeCalk. The deck is rock solid now and no chance of water intrusion.

I then pulled the other small hatch over the head and the large hatch over the bed and while they werent leaking or had soft spots, the factory butyl tape was basically dried out and crumbling. I again removed the butyl tape, sealed the raw edges of the balsa with epoxy and reinstalled hatches with LifeCalk.

How much work was it to remove and rebed the hatches?

 

[Gallf1]

How much work was it to remove and rebed the hatches?

I did it myself.....it was easy. Back out screws, run a utility knife between the hatch and deck (to cut the sealing tape) and carefully lift off the hatch. Clean up the old sealing tape from the deck and under the hatch lip, seal the edges of the exposed balsa core with epoxy, reinstall hatch with caulking, trim dried caulking.
I used West System epoxy with slow hardener and LifeCalk sealant.....maybe $100 total?

 

[bfernald0]

I did it myself.....it was easy. Back out screws, run a utility knife between the hatch and deck (to cut the sealing tape) and carefully lift off the hatch. Clean up the old sealing tape from the deck and under the hatch lip, seal the edges of the exposed balsa core with epoxy, reinstall hatch with caulking, trim dried caulking.
I used West System epoxy with slow hardener and LifeCalk sealant.....maybe $100 total?

Thx. Sounds like a good project after this season is up.