So how busy can a boat broker really be?

Well, since I am on a quest for Red Balls today. . . .

. . .I think pictures can serve two primary purposes:

1) Confirm that the boat is not grossly neglected (i.e.; floating in the slip as opposed to sitting in mud at the bottom of a slip)

2) Confirm major options on the boat. When I shopped, I found that the descriptions could be less than informative, but if you have a PICTURE of the options. . then you know what the boat has. Examples includes a engine pic to confirm the type of engines, pic of the seating to verify which seating arrangement the boat has.

Not sure a picture could confirm details on boat condition.. . .unless it was REALLY bad.

I looked at a boat whose YachtWorld ad said it had cockpit AC but one of the 4 pics showed the vents missing. I asked about this discrepancy. The ad was wrong.

Another boat...I emailed asking for the list of options on the boat as hardly any were showing on the yachworld ad and they were so abbreviated as I couldn't figure out what it meant. The listed broker copied and pasted from the crappy yachtworld ad text and send that back to me. (Another broker sent me the build slip from the manufacturer - the right response to the inquiry..)

But the worst is the complete lack of response to email and voicemail including, I'm sad to say, to some of the brokers who participate on the board here at CSR. Just nuts...:huh:

I think most people selling boats today are stuck with a 70's mentality. It not just the pictures... It's the whole game... Buying a car 20 years ago was similar but that industry changed since then as the foreign cars ate into the business. I was shopping for cars a while back and was very impressed with the sales techniques and processes now employed, including the use of technology and better than expected communication, sales training, attention to detail, product knowledge, etc. I don't agree with the view that the broker is only trying to qualify you as a buyer, hence all the games upfront. That's a sorry excuse for a sales strategy. No offense to the brokers on the board but there is great room for improvement here...
 
Bought my first boat last year and found two kinds of brokers in my search. Those who sell boats and those who expect boats to sell themselves. Not sure how some of them actually make enough money to buy groceries with their disinterested approach, nor do I care, but they didn't see my money just land in their lap. Show me you have something to sell and I MIGHT buy.
 
After reading all of this, I think I may give up my honest sales job which requires me to respond to each and every inquiry with great enthusiasim and effort and become a boat broker. I mean really, it sounds pretty cool.

You simply stand up and do a little paperwork once a serious buyer plunks down a wad of cash sight un-seen!

And to think, I've wasted 25 years of my life as a hard working, responsive, cross my t's and dot my i's sales professional! Gosh!! I should have joined this site years ago and saved all that hard work getting back to each and every potential client that every took the time to ring my bell, text me a message, call my office or wave me down at the Piggly Wiggly!

A very well respected and well heeled sales pro once talked and wrote about the theory of 21- it takes 21 calls/follow ups/attempts to make a sale. I guess the boat brokers skipped that class.

Good Luck everyone. I think I'll just keep doing factory orders and take the depreciation up the waa-zoo. It's worth every penny to avoid a broker.
 
I'll give you a little seller perspective.

First, every buyer out there right now thinks that, regardless of your asking price, they are going to buy your boat for 50k less than the asking price. After awhile, you get jaded with the "can I get a few more pictures of this and that" inquiries. It is no small effort to run to the marina to do that. I personally am tired of the "I am in the area, and would like to see your boat in an hour" BS. I can not drop everything I am doing at a moment's notice to drive an hour to my boat whenever some idiot asks me too.

I have spent more time with people than I care to mention that are "serious" on the phone, then when they show up, they "have never been on this model before" and are comparing a bridge boat to cruiser or something. God that pisses me off. I waste my tikme, driving over there, to deal with some fool is there because their favorite cartoon is over on Saturday morning.

Or, after wasting 2 hours of my time, the best question "you wouldn't be willing to trade for a 1989 30 Sundancer?". Are you kidding me? Why the hell did you show up and waste my time with that as your last question?

I had a buyer from Mexico who showed up. I had to leave my office to go meet him, which I told him. I told him I had about 45 minutes with him, and had to get back to work. After an hour, he asked to for me to run it out. I refused, and told him to make me an offer first. He persisted, saying this was his only trip to the states to look. I relented (huge mistake), and went for about a 20 minute ride. I told him before he came that I had already rejected 2 offers at xxx,xxxx, and he had to do better than that, because I didn't want to waste his time. After the joyride, he took another 30 minutes to try to negotiate an offer for 25k less than I had told I had rejected. This turned into a 3 hour total waste of my time - time I could not spare from my work.

I imagine that brokers, who deal with more than 1 boat, have these issues as well.

You don't have to be jerk about it, but you have to differentiate yourself as a buyer. If you are serious, you think they owe you something because in your mind, you are serious. On my end, I am ready to get lost at sea or crash into a jetty for a total loss and an insurance claim. Buyers, on the whole, are pricks, and I'm sick of them.

The problem is, for every 1 serious person, there are 20 that are out killing a day, and killing my time with it. I hate those people for wasting my limited God-given heartbeats to indulge their stupid fantasies.

It is very difficult to tell over the phone which you are. You have to make yourself stand out.

Just a seller's perspective, that may help you buyers understand why, after awhile, people don't jump to attention because the guy on the other end of the phone is "serious".

I forgot, so I might as well add - Why do you care why someone is selling? I have reasons, but after explaining it 30 times, I just now say "I'm getting out of boating". Inside, I'm thinking "it's none of your business". I am sick of answering that one too. Probably seems like casual conversation to you, but to me, that's like saying "I'm not serious, and I'm going to offer you half of your aksing price, just to see if you're desperate". Come up with a new opening line. I'd rather someone said "I think you're an a@$%^, but your boat is the model I've been looking for". I'd have more respect for them, and probably take them more seriously.

So, there's your answer as to why everyone doesn't heed your beckoned call. Act real, and they'll treat you real back.
 
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After reading all of this, I think I may give up my honest sales job which requires me to respond to each and every inquiry with great enthusiasim and effort and become a boat broker. I mean really, it sounds pretty cool.

You simply stand up and do a little paperwork once a serious buyer plunks down a wad of cash sight un-seen!

And to think, I've wasted 25 years of my life as a hard working, responsive, cross my t's and dot my i's sales professional! Gosh!! I should have joined this site years ago and saved all that hard work getting back to each and every potential client that every took the time to ring my bell, text me a message, call my office or wave me down at the Piggly Wiggly!

A very well respected and well heeled sales pro once talked and wrote about the theory of 21- it takes 21 calls/follow ups/attempts to make a sale. I guess the boat brokers skipped that class.

Good Luck everyone. I think I'll just keep doing factory orders and take the depreciation up the waa-zoo. It's worth every penny to avoid a broker.

Do you really have Piggly Wiggly's in Kingston? SB
 
But the worst is the complete lack of response to email and voicemail including, I'm sad to say, to some of the brokers who participate on the board here at CSR. Just nuts...:huh:

Which ones? Let's "out" them! :grin::smt038 What model were you looking to move up to that has cockpit air?
 
hahahaha this thread is awesome. We should make this a sticky
 
Some great comments here. Ultimately, I do believe some effort needs to be made to demonstrate you are a serious buyer (I differ significantly from Frank W in what that effort should be).

However, I have been in sales at various levels for all of my professional career. There is a difference between selling and order taking. If I pay a broker to list my boat, they better be willing and able to answer detailed questions to a prospective buyer. I would grant modest leeway in regards to buyers that appear insincere. But beyond that, I would expect good faith effort.
 
I just read and enjoyed the entire thread and although my purchase was far less than the $150k examples, the principals remain the same and there are valid points on both sides of the deal.

Why would you ask the broker the reason the seller wants out? Are you going to believe his answer? Really? What value is there in the answer anyway? "Oh, he's moving up in size". Does that mean he wants to take a acid bath on this deal? Its like asking your wife if she needs all those clothes. No matter what her reply is ..............so what!

Keep in mind I am a realitively new to boating but lets not fool ourselves into thinking that boats are this unique and mysterious world in which outsiders could never understand. Boats, houses, airplanes, race horses. These things are bought & sold everyday. Hell, I even heard of one deal going down with out a broker!

Two things I suprisingly found lacking though were these...

1. Broker is an upscale word for salesman. A broker, sellers OR buyers, is a salesman. There is a reason he is not called a fair-deals-man or a show-n-tells-man. He is a salesman. He does not want to hold your hand while you decide which layout is right for you. He prospers when boat deals go down. Not when boat deals are talked about. Sure some are hungrier than others and will be more accomidating. So what.

2. As far as setting the tone to let him know you are serious, check this out... when he was "feeling me out" on our first encounter he suggested I might want to talk with a finance guy to establish a true price range. I looked him dead in the eye and said "No need. I am the finance guy. This will be a cash deal". He retrieved some cold waters from the fridge and proceeded to show me three boats that day.

Yeah, he "brokered" the deal...........At the end of the day, He helped Bob "sell" the boat & he helped me "buy" the boat.
 
The problem with brokers is just like any other customer service employee. They have none I walk in to a place of business and they look at you and decide weather they want to do business with you. It should be the other way around. Don't judge me by how I look or the questions I ask. It took us a year of boat shows and dealers and lots of questions before we made our decision. Treat eveyone the same. Customer Service is something most business in this country lack.
 
Do you really have Piggly Wiggly's in Kingston? SB

No, but on while on vacation in the States a few years ago I was approached in the parking lot. (I always letter my company vehicle.)

It was just someone looking for some "advice" and we chatted. I had no chance to make so much as a dime from this individual and I was on vacation with my family. It doesn't hurt to be nice.
 
I'll give you a little seller perspective.

Buyers, on the whole, are pricks, and I'm sick of them.

The problem is, for every 1 serious person, there are 20 that are out killing a day, and killing my time with it. I hate those people for wasting my limited God-given heartbeats to indulge their stupid fantasies.

Ahh- my theory of 21! 20+1=21 Not sure what you do for a living, but I bet it ain't sales. (And if it is, I bet you are enjoy a monopoly in whaterver it is you do sell) In selling this is an accepted ratio. The reality is, when you stick a for sale sign on anything, be prepared for everyone from nosey neighbors to tire kickers to ex cons stopping by for a look. It is part of the "sales process". As they say in real estate, every house will eventually sell. There is a buyer out there. It just may take time. When we sold our first home years ago, we had over 115 visits, plus 4 Open Houses. It was a unique little home that required the right couple. They finally showed up. Showing a home/boat 100+ times is alot of work. It needs to be clean and it will be a hassle, however, the right buyer will eventually show up.

If you don't want to invest the time showing the boat, then why not hire a friend, a retired neighbour, etc. to do the showings. You can take the call, but tell your friend that you will toss them some coin when the boat sells. They may love the idea of having something to do.

You can't sell from an empty wagon.
 
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"The problem with brokers is just like any other customer service employee. They have none I walk in to a place of business and they look at you and decide weather they want to do business with you. It should be the other way around. Don't judge me by how I look or the questions I ask. It took us a year of boat shows and dealers and lots of questions before we made our decision. Treat eveyone the same. Customer Service is something most business in this country lack."

Should be? Customer service? They are selling man, commisions. Not new friendships, or engagement to be married, they have something to sell and its not theirs So if you walk, you may miss a good boat.When buying you must deal with the crap, but the sellers reps deal with the same crap. My boat is listed on yachtworld, so far there has been over 2000 hits, imagine if 25% of the lookers asked for additional photos.
 
Great thread, so here's my 02 cents. There is "precieved" fault on both sides of the sale. That being laziness on the sellers part in not knowing the product, and laziness on the buyers part in not knowing what he wants. The best advise I read today was Turtle's "lessons learned via Frank W). Shop on your own and know what you want prior to contacting a broker or private seller. And this works for used and well as new boats. With each boat I bought and with each trade up I would hit the boat shows and spend hours looking and feeling, then would ask a few key questions to the salesperson that was aboard. When I was ready I had a detailed list of options in a prioritized order. When I bought Fra Diavlo last October it was through the dealer I have bought all my boats from so they know me. I don't like wasting my time and I don't waste others, they had 3 hulls all varying in price. (close price) I gave them my priorities (white hull/black canvas on top down to TNT on bottom) and they picked the one hull that fit. Deal was done in 20 minutes.

The best waste of time...being on the boat you love. (until the next one comes along).

Rich
 
I think everyone really is missing Franks point here.

One of my favorite movies of all time is Glenn Gary Glenn Ross. When Alec Baldwin is talking to the sales team and he repeats the saying "Always be closing". If you haven't seen the movie, it's fantastic.
 
"Shop on your own and know what you want"

So if I think I like a new car based on the commercials I should not visit the dealer until I am prepared to leave a deposit and buy? I cannot go to look at the car to see if I like it? Interesting.

The boats we like simply do not exist in our area. So how do I see them other than photos and the internet to decide if this model interests us? How do I know the differences between model years without asking questions?

It appears obvious to me there is a price point somewhere that puts the buyer in a position where they need to reveal a little more information than they would below that price point, in order to get the broker to talk, heck just to get the broker to listen. Example, we purchased a 1998 Center Console 3 weeks ago. The seller never asked me what my budget was. He never asked me for a deposit to look at it. Same thing when we purchased our 330, listed at $85,000. I was never once questioned on my budget nor was I ever asked for a deposit first. The broker showed me the boat, answered my questions and, get this, he actually knew the boat and it's history....image that.

So, what is that price point? $100K? $150K? At what price point does a broker actually take the time to learn the boat, take pictures and respond to inquiries? Or, is it more "does this guy have money" ?

And, you will never be able to sell me the "I am too busy" answer. We all have the same 24 hours...it's about priorities. If it's a priority to you you will find the time. "I don't have enough time" or "I am too busy" is a lame as it gets. Then find another job/career because the one you chose is obviously not for you.
 
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Greg, Watching the process of you buying a boat is like having my fingernails ripped out. I mean that in a loving way.
 
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