SmartCraft_Diesel View help

Discussion in 'Electronics Q&A' started by villain style, Oct 20, 2019.

  1. villain style

    villain style Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Oct 10, 2006
    Mears Point Marina Kent Island, MD
    2006 44 DA
    QSC 8.3s
    Cummins QSC 8.3s 500HO
    All year my Port 4 in 1 Cluster gauges and Tachometer have worked intermittently. The DieselView also only had the Stbd data working. Started intermittent in June and by August no Port data or Port gauges worked. I had multiple times taken all the connections apart and cleaned them at the Engine (The ECM), the big plug connections behind the dash as well as the two plug connectors that go into Smartcraft.
    Yesterday with a few hours to spare I jumped into the bilge to try again. I disconnected ECM plug and reconnected a few times and then started engines up. Unbelievably both Stbd and Port gauges were working but there was still no Port data indicating on Smartcraft. I was always under the belief that the Smartcraft just sent the data to the gauges. No data on Smartcraft meant gauges were not going to work. Now I have gauges apparently working and still no data on Port side for Smartcraft/DieselView. Can anyone help explain what might be going on?
    Thanks-
     
  2. rlynch03

    rlynch03 Member

    116
    May 16, 2019
    Annapolis, MD
    07 52 Sedan Bridge, 2019 Brig Falcon 360HT-30HP Honda, 2008 Regal 3760-Sold, 2003 16' Dauntless
    Cummins QSM 11 660 HP w/ ZF 325-1A
    I also have a bit of an intermittent issue going on with my starboard 4/1 gauge and Vessel View gauges. I thought it was related to the momentary ignition switch. I replaced that switch but it is still happening.
     
  3. ttmott

    ttmott PhD in OCD GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 3, 2012
    Space Coast Florida
    2006 52 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins QSM11
    The Dieselview drives the gauges. If neither the Dieselview nor gauges work then probably a systemic issue with the harnessing or connectors or a failure within the Dieselview unit (but unlikely). First swap the CAN 1 resistors (yellow capped connectors on the helm J-boxes and see if the problem follows to the other side. Then swap the CAN 123 resistors on the engine harness (yellow capped connectors on the engine harness' and also see if the problem follows. If the problem follows a resistor swap then a defective resistor. If the resistors are ok then swap the port and starboard engine main cables (circled in the below diagram) coming into the helm at the J-boxes; they should be the large yellow cables that terminate into two J-boxes under the helm. If the gauge problem follows that swap then the issue obviously exists between the engines and the end of that yellow cable. If the issue does not follow then the issue is between the J-boxes, Dieselview, and gauges.
    connectorswap.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
    RBB and villain style like this.
  4. villain style

    villain style Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Oct 10, 2006
    Mears Point Marina Kent Island, MD
    2006 44 DA
    QSC 8.3s
    Cummins QSC 8.3s 500HO
    TTMOTT - Thank you for the detailed writeup and schematic. That gives me additional information and a process to try. Much appreciated!! It is still a bit strange to me that my gauges appear to be working now but my Dieselview shows no Port data,only Stbd....
     
  5. Carpediem44DB

    Carpediem44DB Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    644
    Aug 18, 2015
    Sanfransico Bay area
    2006 44 DB Sedan Bridge Raymarine gs165 w Quantum HD Radar
    Achilles 350 Dink
    Nick Jackson Davit
    Cummins QSC 8.3 500 HD
    Different problem but a big one none the less. I just did my 1000 hr service and on the port engine I disconnected several of the wire harness plugs to facilitate removal of the oil and fuel cooler as well as the aftercooler. When I started the engines to leak check the alarm sounded on the Diesel View and showed that I had low fuel level and low water flow. The engine started and ran with no problem and I have plenty water flowing thru the exhaust. The boat has 1/4 tanks of fuel. When trying to figure things out by scrolling thru data I noticed also that I had no gear oil temp or pressure data for the port engine.
    I am wondering if I have to reconfigure the system since the wires were disconnected. There is no guidance on this in the DV operators manual at all. Any one have any ideas? I noticed that after fiddling with the DV that all of a sudden I have no data fields for the gear oil temp or pressure for either engine.
    Very Frustrating! Any help would be very appreciated.
    Rusty Mayes
     
  6. ttmott

    ttmott PhD in OCD GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 3, 2012
    Space Coast Florida
    2006 52 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins QSM11
    Rusty - these peripherals (fuel level, gear oil pressure, water flow, etc) I believe are wired to the SIM module (see below schematic) and the SIM module then gets that data on the Smartcraft CAN H (CAN 1) network. The SIM module is the black box with Motorola printed on it. You might have scrambled the SIM module if the power was turned on with the sensors disconnected. First check the SIM module fuse in the harness then verify all of the connections then turn on the ignition key then cycle in slow (one or two second) intervals the helm ignition switch on and off three times then leave on but don't crank or start the engine. It should re-acquire the data.
    upload_2020-1-15_20-39-59.png
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020 at 8:59 PM
  7. Carpediem44DB

    Carpediem44DB Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    644
    Aug 18, 2015
    Sanfransico Bay area
    2006 44 DB Sedan Bridge Raymarine gs165 w Quantum HD Radar
    Achilles 350 Dink
    Nick Jackson Davit
    Cummins QSC 8.3 500 HD
    TTMott, Thank you for the input. Is the SIM on the engine or is it up on the helm? I have not looked specifically for a fuse in the harness but haven't run across one while digging around and exercising the harness plugs either. Ill use the procedure you outlined and post the results
    As always I appreciate your expertise on these technical matters.
    Rusty
     
  8. ttmott

    ttmott PhD in OCD GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 3, 2012
    Space Coast Florida
    2006 52 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins QSM11
    The SIM (System Integration Module) is a black box about 4 inches square mounted on the engine. The photo below (from Seaboard Marine's web site) shows the SIM on a Cummins QSC 8.3. The below shows the wire harness configuration which I think is similar for the QSC, QSM, and 480 engines. A similar looking black box under the helm is for the C-Cruise integration into the CAN network; that box is called a Smart Multiplex Module. The fuses are in the wire harness and are covered with hard plastic covers that snap on and off. In the photo below you can see them behind the stainless raw water pipe.
    upload_2020-1-16_6-25-15.png
    qsc sim.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020 at 9:49 AM
  9. alnav

    alnav Active Member

    890
    Sep 16, 2009
    West River, MD
    40 MY
    QSB 425
    Rusty, I certainly agree with Tom's advice on checking the SIM and wiring. But, if that doesn't work, you should probably try a Sensor Detection Reset on the Diesel View. The menu is buried in System...System Calibration...Factory Defaults. I've moved on from DV but I remember using it to solve a similar problem albeit related to speed input so not an engine parameter. I found a manual at SBMAR here that may be helpful if you don't already have it.
     
  10. Carpediem44DB

    Carpediem44DB Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    644
    Aug 18, 2015
    Sanfransico Bay area
    2006 44 DB Sedan Bridge Raymarine gs165 w Quantum HD Radar
    Achilles 350 Dink
    Nick Jackson Davit
    Cummins QSC 8.3 500 HD
    Thank you, I know what to look for now. I think I was so far into the Forrest I couldn’t see the trees! I’ll have a chance today to try your reset protocol.
    I really appreciate the help on this.
    Rusty
     
    villain style likes this.
  11. Carpediem44DB

    Carpediem44DB Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    644
    Aug 18, 2015
    Sanfransico Bay area
    2006 44 DB Sedan Bridge Raymarine gs165 w Quantum HD Radar
    Achilles 350 Dink
    Nick Jackson Davit
    Cummins QSC 8.3 500 HD
    Well I checked the fuses, verified all plugs are clean and secure and cycled the engine start rockers three times with no resolution. I disconnected all power from the boat and then powered everything up again and tried the three cycles on the rocker start switches again with no change. I am wondering if I should consider swapping SIM modules between engines and see it the problems follow the SIM. What makes no sense is that I removed and cleaned the starboard engine fuel and gear oil cooler and had no problems with those indications upon start up. Only the port engine is having the issues. Has anyone had success getting help from Cummins with the Diesel View trouble shooting? This just might be the straw that breaks the camel's back with me upgrading to anything else!
    Carpe Diem
     
  12. ttmott

    ttmott PhD in OCD GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 3, 2012
    Space Coast Florida
    2006 52 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins QSM11
    Sorry to hear.... Do not swap the SIM modules; they are specific to the engine and features (steering, fuel tank, ets) that are tied into them. There is an instance 0 and instance 1 that sets in their memory when installed... I learned all of this from the work Shearwater Marine (Stuart Fl) did on my engines after a lightning strike. Their (Shearwater) biggest issue was to get the SIM's to communicate on my boat. I suspect possibly the ground to the sensors you are not seeing has been lost. For example on the gear oil pressure connector you should get 5 volts between pins 1 and 2 when the ignition is on. I suspect ground because you are not getting fuel level either which operates from a ground bias (it is not fed positive voltage) but same ground wiring as the gear oil temp and pressure. Look at the wiring schematic posted previously. If the 5 volt instrument power provided by the SIM (for example) was shorted then the SIM will return an error to the DV, however, it may not with a loss of the ground. Last ditch thing you can try is to short out the seawater flow switch (which is the thermo-switch) on the water cooled exhaust with the ignition on and see if a fault is returned on the DV; short the two bare conductors on the switch together. This verifies communication between the SIM and DV and does not use the same conductors as the other sensors.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020 at 8:26 AM
  13. Carpediem44DB

    Carpediem44DB Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    644
    Aug 18, 2015
    Sanfransico Bay area
    2006 44 DB Sedan Bridge Raymarine gs165 w Quantum HD Radar
    Achilles 350 Dink
    Nick Jackson Davit
    Cummins QSC 8.3 500 HD
    Problem Solved! Big shout out to ttmott (CSR) and Corey Schmidt from SB Marine for the trouble shooting advice. Turned out to be a bad Medusa Harness on the port engine. I kept putting off removing the harnesses to swap them partly because after studying the Cummins Quantum Schematics that Tom sent me I was convinced the problem had to be either in the SIM or the OEM harness. Today I took a deep breath, removed the harnesses and swapped them between engines and viola the problem followed the harness just like Corey said it might. New one is on order which will mean I can take a nice break from contortionist practice in the engine room. I was going to dig through the old harness and just fix the open or short which ever but then thought... for $200 what's the point. If I had half a brain I'd buy one for each engine.
    Carpe Diem
     
    villain style likes this.
  14. villain style

    villain style Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Oct 10, 2006
    Mears Point Marina Kent Island, MD
    2006 44 DA
    QSC 8.3s
    Cummins QSC 8.3s 500HO
    Carpe Diem
    That is great news. Does that harness run from the engine to the helm dash or is it contained in the bilge?
     

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