Shafts vs Zeus

[Tonka Boater]

Axius is an outdrive system. Zeus is the POD drive. Some of the software is the same, but the 2 systems are entirely different.

Correct -- Axius is two independent stern drives with thrusters that gives the same benefits as the pods.

Setting cost aside, the main disadvantage is the availability of parts and service but this will change as the adoption rate increases. This can also be regional too. For example, we can't even get diesel fuel on our lake and there aren't any diesel mechanics. The handful of boats with diesels have fuel trucked in. Areas with more pods systems will have greater availability of parts and service. I read recently that Princess Yachts opted to not go with pods because there aren't enough places for parts or service.

Cost is a personal issue in my opinion -- if someone is willing to pay then cost is irrelevant.

I don't have a horse in this race...I'm just a fan of the systems. But I am also a fan of technology and innovation.

 

[Boulder GT3]

I'll respond from an IPS point of view which rhymes with Zeus. I'm one of the few people I know that has owned and operated the system in real big water conditions for 4 years. The short story is, I like it but I'm not buying another one.

1. Service with Volvo is fine. They have 40K units in market. I could get a complete drive in So Florida in 2 days if needed. Zincs are $150. I'm sure when there are more Zeus units out there the knowledge and parts base will expand. The Bahamas is a different story.

2. Service pricing- Maybe 10% more than a conventional system. The every 2 yrs/200hr oil change is $900. Painting the drives every year is $600 vs. prop speed traditional running gear. Props are $25oo a set and they are good on either side. You can change them with a 10MM wrench.

3. Economy- With the boat loaded, I was 1.1MPG at 26KTS. When I was in the slop at 18KTS it dropped dramatically to .7-.8MPG.

4. Smooth and quiet. Better than conventional by a subjective 20%

5. I think the catastrophic risk is really overplayed. My reality is that if you hit hard enough to tear a drive off you've probably done a huge amount of damage in a conventional boat as well. Shafts and pushed struts are expensive too. Not to rationalize it, but it's best to avoid head on accidents.

6. Docking. Smooth and as good as people say. This was a primary driver for the people that just bought my boat although it didn't really matter to me. The people that bought my boat wanted to be able to just have an easier experience where the wife drops the rope on the cleat. I think that is terrific.

7. I never had a problem with a drive in 4yrs and 450hrs. No errors codes, nothing. Again, real running in all conditions.

My concerns with them were not around hitting something or service. My issue was more around the system in a heavier boat. I just felt that even in a 23K/lb boat it was at the limit. Also, I was impeccable with my service and the way I ran the boat. I wouldn't touch a used one unless it was the one I had. One slip up with letting a drive get hot, running the wrong fluid, not being on top of the zincs and so on is a massive problem. It is very easy to ruin a drive and I know people that have done it.

As I reread this, I guess somewhat contradict myself and I haven't added clarity. I love the pod systems for certain applications and really like that it may bring new people into the boating world. That said, I don't care about many of the benefits. The new boat I bought is CATs with conventional drivetrain.

 

[andy k]

If I kept my boat in salt water I would prefer the conventional shaft drive train over the pod system. However being that I only boat in freshwater lakes I would prefer the Pod system do to the performance and fuel economy increases. Freshwater outdrives have very minimal maintenance issues compared to out drives kept in salt water. I would assume that would be true for the pod systems as well.

 

[Alex F]

.... The short story is, I like it but I'm not buying another one.....

Can you elaborate why?

....My concerns with them were not around hitting something or service. My issue was more around the system in a heavier boat. I just felt that even in a 23K/lb boat it was at the limit. Also, I was impeccable with my service and the way I ran the boat. I wouldn't touch a used one unless it was the one I had. One slip up with letting a drive get hot, running the wrong fluid, not being on top of the zincs and so on is a massive problem. It is very easy to ruin a drive and I know people that have done it....

That is a great point. We've heard all the selling points, but with respect to a new and functional POD drives. But, when we start talking about used market for them, this opens a whole new can of worms.

 

[fwebster]

OK, for you freshwater lake POD drive proponents, what are you going to do in Door Co., Wisconsin, or East Jesus County, MN when your drive system goes into idle mode and the indicator panel says "water in drive oil"? From what I am hearing, this is a regular occurrence with Zeus drives. It requires a haul out and removal and resealing the drive unit. Do you have haul out facilities on your lake and who is going to do the work and who has the parts?

When your new boat is blocked up waiting on a mechanic and parts, handling is not real high on the priority list, but the dang thing is very efficient.

 

[Woody]

Door county is in Lake Michigan, lots of big boat services available and we even got us some SeaRay dealers too.:grin:

 

[mainstream]

I have an employee that ran tugs for quite a few years pods on tugs is not new it was designed for close quarter maneuvering but in the recreational boating arena it was adapted so the larger cruisers were easier to handle for people that didn't have skills or better put not comfortable with twins so by incorporating it into recreational cruisers and such it opens up a larger buying pool of customers I've been boating for 25 years with twins but my neighbor went and bought a new 450 never docked twins before Zeus made him into a pro in no time he admitted that he would of never went that size without pods

 

[Henry Boyd]

I have an employee that ran tugs for quite a few years pods on tugs is not new it was designed for close quarter maneuvering but in the recreational boating arena it was adapted so the larger cruisers were easier to handle for people that didn't have skills or better put not comfortable with twins so by incorporating it into recreational cruisers and such it opens up a larger buying pool of customers I've been boating for 25 years with twins but my neighbor went and bought a new 450 never docked twins before Zeus made him into a pro in no time he admitted that he would of never went that size without pods

Not trying to be a nit picker, but tugs typically employ Z-drives. These sort of look like the IPS drives, but are not the same. The big distinction is that the prop on a azipod drive is fixed vertically typically on a 3:00-9:00 line. It then can spin 360 degrees about the vertical. Z drives on the other hand not only duplicate the 360 degree spin, but also allow the prop to point up and down as well.

Henry

 

[wvsundancer]

Someone help me out two years ago I struck a log on the ohio river that was stuck below the water on plane at 40MPH. New props was my only expense. Would this have ripped the pod off?

 

[Alex F]

Someone help me out two years ago I struck a log on the ohio river that was stuck below the water on plane at 40MPH. New props was my only expense. Would this have ripped the pod off?

Very possible, but it depends on the force of impact between the pod and the submerged object.

Your question reminds me similar situation I had on my 320 with v-drives. I hit a log the size of telephone pole that was barely visible and popped out in the split moment. I hit it at about 25MPH. I have to admit that I was very lucky. The extend of the damage was.........slightly bent one blade on the port side prop. The blade moved so little that it was not noticeable to an naked eye. I continued on with my vacation trip feeling VERY LIGHT vibration. I had a hard time understanding if there was any extra vibration, but somehow I just felt that something was a bit different. The repair cost was $100 short haul and $200 to fix the prop by the prop shop (I took both props off and reinstalled them myself). I wonder how would PODs survive the same impact? If I was just as lucky with PODs on that day I'm willing to bet I would be in for at least two props, if the PODs remained in-tacked.

We have to realize the fact that with shafts we have prop pockets (yes, not every boat, but a lot of models do). Boats with PODs have the whole unit exposed to the impact. IMO, it adds a risk of heavier impact and much more expensive recovery. Anytime I think about the impact I always give Zues drives bigger survival chance compare to IPS drives with forward facing props.

 

[Pietro]

I’m late on this topic, but… I would chose shafts every day! It’s not a matter of cost but a matter of complexity.

With pods or i/o you relay on a specific marque and its service in your area or were you are cruising to.
With conventional shaft you just need spare props, shaft and strut and every mechanic in the world can fix your boat.

I do not care what the manufacturer say, there are no service shop in the middle of the sea and pods are way too complicated for me.

How can I relay on electronic for steering? What if I hit a reef? I’m sorry but I’m not convinced yet! (..and I can pilot my boat with just two props, rudders and some skill)

 

[wrasse]

Beware the failures...

IPS/Zeus, new(er) with warranty, great! Used out of warranty, would never consider it. Depends on the kind of boater/buyer you are.

I shopped heavily for a 4-5 year old boats with IPS systems mainly for docking ease as my wife has no interest in learning conventional docking. Several boats had water intrusion into the drives from the metal seal where the drive meets the hull. Once water gets in the drives, it's not only the gears that are affected but also the transmission/clutchpacks as they are all connected and use the same oil for lubrication. Both boats with intrusion were moored in fresh water. Cost to repair, $38K ! for a $180K boat. I walked on both. I am certain these type of failures will be noticed more now that those early drives are getting to be of some age.
Add in mandatory yearly haul-out service, propspeed paint, limited selection of knowledgeable shops, I gave up on used IPS/Zeus boats.

The financials and hassles compared to marginal benefit just didn't pencil out for us.. We're now looking at Meridians with bow/stern thrusters. Nearly all of the benefit of dockside handling without the service/durability issues.

 

[Alex F]

Thanks for sharing your findings. I guess in the next few years the word will be out on how these drives are "holding up" while out of warranty. I can see a major improvement in the design as more and more claims come in. Man, I can buy a LOT of fuel for $38K. I can only imagine what will happen to the $180K boat that needs drives for $38K.