Shafts vs Zeus

I know a couple who lost an engine out running on a trip, they had one heck of a time getting their IPS boat into the dock or able to track straight without the port drive engaged.

A shaft driven boat loses an engine, turn the rudders the opposite direction and prepare for a slow but straight ride home.

This reminded me a situation I was in. I had an engine failure on my 320 and I had to take the boat to local MM. I did the delivery singe handed at night, went through Point Pleasant canal (very narrow with 3-5kts current). While in the canal I had passed River Lady (local dinner cruise vessel), obviously I did that with proper communication with the captain of the cruise ship. I don't think if I had PODs I would even thought of taking the trip, not to mention alone, not to mention at night. This just goes to show you why old and well tested equipment/technology works very well in most situations, even when something fails. The only nerve rocking part of that experience was docking in the river with strong current in the foreign slip.
 
The best story i have heard about them is when a sales man for MM Brick lost one on the way bock from AC boat show in Sept 2010.
 
The best story i have heard about them is when a sales man for MM Brick lost one on the way bock from AC boat show in Sept 2010.

That's a good one. I've read that there's a service to retrieve them from the bottom if you have coordinates.
 
I think with new technology there will always be many of us who are reluctant to change, including me. But the one thing that really gets me going is all these sensors on these new engines, boats and I am sure these pods. More sensors just mean more stuff to break. I can't tell you how many times I have heard someone with low oil pressure, high temperature or similar say , must be a sensor I'll just get it back to the dock to check it out or call service. What really bothers me is that the computer shutting systems off to ptotect the equipment while there may be times when I would rather protect myself and those aboard and sacrifice the systems. Sensors shut too many things down and limit systems too damn much on these new technology boats. Give me a pair of mechanical diesels, shafts, cables for fshift and throttle and I am happy.

I also think there is way too much stuff hanging on the bottom of a boat with pods or outdrives especially in salt water. Non-serviceable seals as mentioned a couple years ago by Volvo (I will also assume zeus ) just scares me when you can't perform routine maintenance on the seals that keep water out of the boat. Thanks but no thanks.
 
I have a couple of neighbors that have IPS drives and both of them keep their boats on lifts. Both are concerned about the long term effects of salt water in Fla.'s warm water, but they really enjoy the handling and performance. The IPS also has forward facing props (unlike Zues) and one neighbor has had to replace props more than once.

Art
 
I still say that Zeus was invented for people who can't drive, which is why when a friend (who can't drive twins to save his life) went to Merritt Island for a demo when they first came out, the sales people made such a point of having all the wives of the couples that were there drive the boats, and they pointed out how simple it was for anyone to drive. There might be other benefits as well, but Sea Ray/Merc/Cummins knew perfectly well that many people are intimidated by operating big boats, and they're doing whatever they can to open up the market to more customers.
 
Here's a counter point. Having joystick controls makes docking easier for most people. My wife would not dock my 320 which had twin V drives and she said she really wanted a boat that drove like a car so she could dock it. If that 320 had pods or even Axius I would likely still have it instead of the new single engine bowrider I just bought. Not everyone, especially women, are boating purists and if some technology eliminates one of the largest causes of stress in boating so be it.
 
I remember boaters saying that they wouldn't trust the new "electronic ignition" and rather stick with points/condenser setups due to simplicity.

I remember boaters saying that they wouldn't trust the new "fuel injected" engines and rather stick with carbs.

Sure there was the odd boater left stranded due to the new technology, but today ignition and fuel delivery systems are quite reliable. I really enjoy the ease of hitting the starters and hearing those bad boys fire up then idle sweetly without any effort or throttle manipulations and I prefer it over the older technology.

Pods will most likely be seen in the same way years from now. I would consider a boat with pods in the future, once most major design flaws have been identified and corrected. In my opinion the pro's outweigh the con's.
 
I'm with you Bob, Zeus was intended to make it easier for people to dock the boats equipped with it.
 
... Sea Ray/Merc/Cummins knew perfectly well that many people are intimidated by operating big boats, and they're doing whatever they can to open up the market to more customers.

I totally agree and we can add that with fuel prices on the rise (for number of years now) they have additional selling points when it comes to performance. In the meantime I'm happy that we're in the position to choose. Don't like PODs or Zues, stick with shafts and rudders.
 
I'm with you Bob, Zeus was intended to make it easier for people to dock the boats equipped with it.

I'm not trying to argue the point but I want to challenge the notion that the sole motivation with pods is to make it easier for people to dock or for people who can't maneuver twins. I agree that it does open the door to more boaters but I don't think that Cabo, Viking, Sabre, Riviera, Mikelson and other yacht builders are using Zeus pods to attract new boaters. There are definite advantages to pods as many have stated and it's not just about the close quarter handling. People who buy these boats are more likely to be seasoned boaters....not wives and girlfriends who get nervous at the dock. It's innovation and it's great.
 
I never said it was the sole motivation, but the Sea Ray rep certainly was selling it to my friends like that was their intention with Zeus and Axius. What advantages does Axius have over a typical stern drive powered boat other than the fact that anyone can drive it?
 
I'm not trying to argue the point but I want to challenge the notion that the sole motivation with pods is to make it easier for people to dock or for people who can't maneuver twins. I agree that it does open the door to more boaters but I don't think that Cabo, Viking, Sabre, Riviera, Mikelson and other yacht builders are using Zeus pods to attract new boaters. There are definite advantages to pods as many have stated and it's not just about the close quarter handling. People who buy these boats are more likely to be seasoned boaters....not wives and girlfriends who get nervous at the dock. It's innovation and it's great.

Innovation? Absolutely. There can be no doubt that this technology has a major advantage when it comes close quarter handling of a big boat. If I was a salesman I'd be pushing that every chance I got, especially to the girls who might have that final say in the purchase. But if that was the main reason these pods were developed then it would have been far cheaper, easier and sensible to just link a computer to some well placed thrusters. Marine architechs and designers have long had to put up with shafts, gear boxes and unfortunately positioned engines taking up otherwise good usuable space in the boat and as we all know, our boats are too small no matter how big they are. Pods have opened up options to the architect and designers that now see mid-cabin staterooms to die for. You dont have cut a hole in the cabin to get the engines out for overhaul either. All I have ever heard about handling at sea is positive and I suspect pods give a great deal better control in steep following seas. This gives pod equipped vessels a margin of safety over shafts in bar crossings.

Another poster commented about sensors and about the complexity of the technology in general. Actually, there is nothing complex about sensors providing data to computers which in turn are programmed to operate the engine or drive in the most effective, efficient and econmical way based on the data from those sensors and the driver or operators inputs or commands. This is the way of the world today and we see it in aircraft, cars, medical equipment, engineering and cabinerty CNC machinery, earth moving machinery, cranes....need I go on. And now we see it in that last ludite populated bastion, recreational boats!

This whole thing reminds me of when on board navigation computers first arrived on our aircraft in the air force. They were Inertial Navigation Systems or INS. At the gate you entered the current lat/long position of the aircraft and accelerometers would determine how far and how fast you had travelled in any given direction and update your position accordingly. Even though they made their job much simplier, our navigators thought INS was the devils work and continued to proudly announce that a more accurate position had been gained with a 'sunshot' from the sextant. Navigation theory aside, they may have been right with regards to INS which had a tendancy to 'drift' becuase it had nothing external to reference against but further development and the introduction of GPS has consigned air force navigators and their sextants to nothing more than colourful history.

I doubt that pods will completely remove shafts, rather pods are an improvement and will do better than shafts in some applications and boat sizes. They will exist side by side for some time to come. But as pods become more widespread, are produced by more manufacturers and their technologies improve, competition will drive prices down. I think many doubters are waiting for a string of catastrophic failures which will prove their theories that the devil was at work with these things and that shafts and rudders are the only true path. But so far, that has not materialised and I doubt it will on properly serviced pods. One thing we can say, like them or deride them, they are here to stay and they are formidable players in the marine propulsion market.


Terry
 
Last edited:
I never said it was the sole motivation, but the Sea Ray rep certainly was selling it to my friends like that was their intention with Zeus and Axius. What advantages does Axius have over a typical stern drive powered boat other than the fact that anyone can drive it?

Close quarter handling, better handling in tides and currents, better ride, better control and handling while underway, more fuel efficient, no bow rise, they take up less engine space, the pods are designed to shear off if they hit an obstruction thereby not damaging the rest of the engine, etc. Lord Farrington also gives a good detailed explanation of the benefits.
 
Close quarter handling, better handling in tides and currents, better ride, better control and handling while underway, more fuel efficient, no bow rise, they take up less engine space, the pods are designed to shear off if they hit an obstruction thereby not damaging the rest of the engine, etc. Lord Farrington also gives a good detailed explanation of the benefits.

All valid points, except... ride is not really any different from the boats I have ran, that has to do mostly with the hull shape, bow rise is still there at least on the zeus 48 Sundancer I ran (ips boats not so much), and the pod sheering off is an expensive endeavor.
 
I know a couple who lost an engine out running on a trip, they had one heck of a time getting their IPS boat into the dock or able to track straight without the port drive engaged.

A shaft driven boat loses an engine, turn the rudders the opposite direction and prepare for a slow but straight ride home.
There is a process to set the drive to a neutral. It involves running rotating key wrench down the top of the drive. It's not a big deal. I've done it. Because the remaining pod rotates independently there is more control that a single screw rudder set up. I've done both.
 
Close quarter handling, better handling in tides and currents, better ride, better control and handling while underway, more fuel efficient, no bow rise, they take up less engine space, the pods are designed to shear off if they hit an obstruction thereby not damaging the rest of the engine, etc. Lord Farrington also gives a good detailed explanation of the benefits.

These things may apply to Zeus, but I asked what advantages Axius has over a regular stern drive since it doesn't appear to me that there's any point to it other than to make it simple to maneuver at low speeds. The reason I ask about Axius is that the joystick is the same. I don't necessarily agree that there's a noticeable difference in handling in tides and currents, or the ride, or the bow rise, but I'm not arguing those points.
 
These things may apply to Zeus, but I asked what advantages Axius has over a regular stern drive since it doesn't appear to me that there's any point to it other than to make it simple to maneuver at low speeds. The reason I ask about Axius is that the joystick is the same. I don't necessarily agree that there's a noticeable difference in handling in tides and currents, or the ride, or the bow rise, but I'm not arguing those points.

Axius and Zeus are the same thing -- Axius is gas powered and Zeus is diesel powered -- they are otherwise identical. The better handling with the tides and currents comes from the ability to hold the boat in place regardless of the current. You can lock your position and the boat won't drift with the current while waiting for a bridge for example. Another example is being able to hold the boat against the dock with an opposing current so someone else can handle the lines. Not arguing either but there are definite advantages.
 
Last edited:
Axius is an outdrive system. Zeus is the POD drive. Some of the software is the same, but the 2 systems are entirely different.


I am a little curious. If the POD drive system is end all- cure all to boating as you guys describe, where are all the satisfied Zeus customers in this discussion? And, why is Sea Ray moving back toward offering conventional inboard power on most models with Zeus as an option?

These systems have been out for several years now and I still have more questions than answers...........

1. Who repairs them?........no Sea Ray dealer that I know of can work on Zeus, so that means you are waiting on a Zeus specialist from Mercruiser for drive repairs.
2. Who stocks Zeus parts?
3. Do you really really want $60,000 worth of exposed gear cases and $10,000 worth of prop sets running under your boat? If you lose a Zeus drive in deep water, where is the replacement drive coming from? Even better, who has the shear bolts in stock?
4. I've run several different Zeus boats and the handling is great........but do you really need a 45 ft. cruiser to handle like a ski boat?
5. Handling around a dock is excellent, but can be "twitchy"..........some folks feel they need it, but I've never had a problem putting my boat where I want it to go and I don't even have a bow thruster. Do you really need it?
6. Are you prepared for the unexplained, difficult for the owner to diagnose, problems where the "system" puts the boat in limp home mode?
7. Are you prepared for the maintenance cost? Zincs are about $600 a set..........


Maybe some day when parts and service are available and the systems are refined, but I'm not a buyer now.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
112,948
Messages
1,422,806
Members
60,930
Latest member
Ebrown69
Back
Top