Shaft leak (V-Drives)

Discussion in 'Gas Engines/Drives/Transmissions/Props' started by thbouro, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. thbouro

    thbouro Member

    91
    Jan 6, 2011
    VA Beach, VA
    310 Sundancer 2001, Raymarine A65, Lowrance HDS 9 Gen 2 Touch, Raymarine Evolution EV-200 A/P
    350 Mercruiser Mag MPI V-Drive
    Last week I flushed the engines (twin Mercruiser 350 MAG MPI with V-Drives) on my dry docked 2001 310 DA and I noticed that, when the engine was running, plenty of water was coming out of the starboard shaft, outside the boat. According to the surveyor's report when I purchased the boat, the shaft seals are Strong Dripless (the articulating hoses of the seals are blue, so I assume they are Tides Marine seals...). When I was flushing the port engine I didn't notice any apparent leak.
    Is it normal? Any suggestions? If the leak is abnormal, how should I fix it?
     
  2. hottoddie

    hottoddie Well-Known Member

    Jan 11, 2012
    Boston/Cape Cod
    1986 Sea Ray 390 Express
    Garmin 4212 Chartplotter
    Garmin 24 HD Radar
    Garmin GSD 22 Sounder
    Garm
    454 Crusaders
    You should get water from both sides. Remove the end of the hose and blow thru with either compressed air or water. Mine have cross feed hoses that provide water to both sides if only one engine is running.
     
  3. outlaw32

    outlaw32 Member

    71
    Mar 15, 2014
    St Petersburg Fl
    340
    496 V drives
    there is no seal to keep water from leaking out the bottom of but shaft. The seal are to keep water from leaking into bilge. There are bushings in the tides marine but some water can leak by.
     
  4. cfd95

    cfd95 Member

    288
    Nov 5, 2013
    Northport Long Island
    2002 310 Sundancer
    350 Horizons
    V Drives
    When boat is in the slip you can check it everytime before you head out.
    With the motors running look over each side you'll see intermittent bubbles come up from the middle of the boat.
    This will verify the seals are getting water.
     
  5. LG111

    LG111 Active Member

    413
    Jan 4, 2015
    NW
    410
    8.1
    Water needs to come out of both. One is plugged. Look at you manifolds. On one end is a hose that runs down to your dripless. This cools the seal and nylon inner guide at the shaft. If no Water, the nylon guide inside the blue hose will melt. Requiring a new dripless system. About 500 each, labor not included.
    2001, as mine did not come with cross over water hoses. Highly recommended to upgrade, if one engine goes down you can limp back one one without harming the dripless on the dead engine.
    Cast Maniolds as they age flake material and some can flow down that hose and get hung up at the dripless or plug at the manifold nipple, hence reducing water flow or complete blockage. Bad!

    Just stuff to be aware of and check occasionally when boat is hauled by pulling the blue dripless hose back to see the nylon guide.

    Good luck,

    Mark
     
  6. thbouro

    thbouro Member

    91
    Jan 6, 2011
    VA Beach, VA
    310 Sundancer 2001, Raymarine A65, Lowrance HDS 9 Gen 2 Touch, Raymarine Evolution EV-200 A/P
    350 Mercruiser Mag MPI V-Drive
    Thanks guys for the info!

    One more question: when dry docked (on a trailer), during the flushing of the engines, is it permissible to shift the engine into gear for some seconds? (of course keeping all the safety precautions...). I keep her out of the water for many months and regularly start up the engines (following the flushing procedures) for about 15-20 min (my mechanic told me to do so every month, to avoid stuck engine condition). I am wondering if I should (or have to) do the same with the transmission...
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  7. SeadawgVB

    SeadawgVB Member

    192
    Jul 8, 2013
    Tidewater Virginia
    '03 Sundancer 360
    Twin 8.1s with V-drives
    I used to do that with my trailerable boat, only at idle. Just to splash the gear lube around inside the gears and seals. I do it with my current boat at the dock (obviously in the water, I don't have a trailer), just pop it in forward, then neutral, then reverse, one engine at a time so that I don't strain my dock lines.
    I think I don't need to say anything about the dangers of rotating propellers on a trailer, but I just did.
     
  8. hottoddie

    hottoddie Well-Known Member

    Jan 11, 2012
    Boston/Cape Cod
    1986 Sea Ray 390 Express
    Garmin 4212 Chartplotter
    Garmin 24 HD Radar
    Garmin GSD 22 Sounder
    Garm
    454 Crusaders
    You can damage the cutlass bearings and shaft seals if you run them dry for any length of time. A few seconds shouldn't hurt or you can have someone spray them with a hose while they are in gear. As said stay clear of the props.
     
  9. rondds

    rondds Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Oct 3, 2006
    Jersey Shore
    2001 380DA
    Merc 8.1s (2008)...Hurth ZF 63 V-drives...WB 7.0 BCGD (2013), Garmin 8208 & 740 MFDs, GMR 24xHD dome
    Older generation Tides dripless did not have a cross-over. My original 2001 seals, which I changed since getting this boat did not feature a crossover. Look under the engine and if there are two hoses coming off each shaft log you have a crossover and the crossover may be clogged. If you have only one hose coming off each shaft log you have the old style and you wont get water coming out of the other non-running engine.
     
  10. rondds

    rondds Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Oct 3, 2006
    Jersey Shore
    2001 380DA
    Merc 8.1s (2008)...Hurth ZF 63 V-drives...WB 7.0 BCGD (2013), Garmin 8208 & 740 MFDs, GMR 24xHD dome
    STRONG seals are the old style. SURE seal is the new one. Note the difference in the blue hose and the two hose nipples on the newer style, and the one hose nipple on the older one.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. cfd95

    cfd95 Member

    288
    Nov 5, 2013
    Northport Long Island
    2002 310 Sundancer
    350 Horizons
    V Drives
    Follow the cooling line up from the seal.
    M IMG_1524.JPG
    My 2002 gets water off a Tee fitting plumbed in
    to the raw water hose on the heat exchanger and not the manifold.
    This is how mine came from factory.
    If the seals have 2 fittings on them then you can run a crossover line to other.
    If it only has 1 you can't do it without replacing the seals with new ones with 2 fittings.
    As was stated above do not relaunch this season until you know that seal is getting cooling water. It will melt the bushing and hose.
    Inspect the cooling hose too.
    Sea Ray installed fuel line on my boat for the cooling hoses.
    I replaced both seals 2 years ago the hoses were hard and brittle.
    i replaced all the hoses with silicone hose.
     
  12. hottoddie

    hottoddie Well-Known Member

    Jan 11, 2012
    Boston/Cape Cod
    1986 Sea Ray 390 Express
    Garmin 4212 Chartplotter
    Garmin 24 HD Radar
    Garmin GSD 22 Sounder
    Garm
    454 Crusaders
    Cfd can't help but notice that the 2 fittings are capped with no hoses attached. Am I missing something?
     
  13. cfd95

    cfd95 Member

    288
    Nov 5, 2013
    Northport Long Island
    2002 310 Sundancer
    350 Horizons
    V Drives
    That picture was when i replaced my seals
    Was one of the old ones before i took it out.
    You can see the seal inside and the carrier cover and washer removed from the housing.
     
  14. thbouro

    thbouro Member

    91
    Jan 6, 2011
    VA Beach, VA
    310 Sundancer 2001, Raymarine A65, Lowrance HDS 9 Gen 2 Touch, Raymarine Evolution EV-200 A/P
    350 Mercruiser Mag MPI V-Drive
    upload_2018-2-27_11-24-52.jpeg
    Here is a photo from my boat. I suppose the black device (looks like a ring) just to the right of the Strong Seal is the Spare Seal Carrier, is that correct? Does anybody know how I can replace the old seal with the Spare one?
    Also, watching this photo I noticed an unscrewed bolt, at 12 o'clock of the Spare Seal as seen on the pic, any idea what is that?
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
  15. cfd95

    cfd95 Member

    288
    Nov 5, 2013
    Northport Long Island
    2002 310 Sundancer
    350 Horizons
    V Drives
    Picture is not showing up.
    Go to you tube and search tides shaft seal.
    They have video on how to replace the seal.
     
  16. thbouro

    thbouro Member

    91
    Jan 6, 2011
    VA Beach, VA
    310 Sundancer 2001, Raymarine A65, Lowrance HDS 9 Gen 2 Touch, Raymarine Evolution EV-200 A/P
    350 Mercruiser Mag MPI V-Drive
    Thank you cfd, searching the YouTube I can find video concerning the replacement of SureSeal but not the StrongSeal. In the SureSeal I can understand that the Seal may be changed by removing the Face Cap which is fastened by 5 screws. The face of StrongSeal, (as seen below), is totally different, without any screws, so I can't realize how to remove the face in order to replace the lip seal! By the way I changed the picture in my previous post, hopefully it showed up...
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
  17. cfd95

    cfd95 Member

    288
    Nov 5, 2013
    Northport Long Island
    2002 310 Sundancer
    350 Horizons
    V Drives
    Those are probably original from when the boat was built.
    According to Tides they stopped selling them in 2002 and supporting parts for them in 2010.
    I would bite the bullet and replace both of them with the Sure Seals.
    It's costly but cheaper then having them fail and sink the boat.
     
  18. ZZ13

    ZZ13 Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Nov 25, 2009
    Lady's Island, SC
    2001 400 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins 450 Diamond
    The Strong Seal has a metal retaining ring that holds the seal in place. Remove the ring to replace the seal. It springs outward so you have to twist it inward with a pointy tool to free it up.

    Tides guideline is replace seal at 5 years and entire assembly at 10 years. For me, changing the seal on my 2001 install in 2017 didn't help. I guess the seal carrier was worn and the spare seal itself was 15 years old. I ended up replacing with the new Sure Seal.
     
  19. jetpartner

    jetpartner Member

    67
    Jan 12, 2012
    Fort Lauderdale
    2000 310 Sundancer
    350 MAG MPI Horizons V-drives
    As the owner of a 2000 310 Sundancer with V drives I can tell you that don't try and change the shaft seal in the water. The black plastic ring on the shaft is a spare seal. You would need to remove spare seal cover, 2 screws. Changing the seal in the water requires you to hang upside down and pull out a small retaining ring that holds the old seal in place, then prying out the old seal while water pours in the bilge. Once you pry seal out then you must cut it free and slide the spare into place all while hanging upside down with never ending water pouring in. Now your ready to put retaining ring back in place while water pours in. To do all of this I would remove both inboard exhaust manifolds so you can hang upside down. I do all my work on my boat, I have replaced engines etc so I know what I am talking about. Consider hiring a yard to pull the boat and do this. Trust me!!
     
    Jaybeaux likes this.
  20. thbouro

    thbouro Member

    91
    Jan 6, 2011
    VA Beach, VA
    310 Sundancer 2001, Raymarine A65, Lowrance HDS 9 Gen 2 Touch, Raymarine Evolution EV-200 A/P
    350 Mercruiser Mag MPI V-Drive
    Thank you very much jetpartner, thankfully the boat is dry docked at the moment so I think I can do it. Your instructions are extremely helpful, I appreciate that!
     

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