Sea Trial coming up for potential purchase, '97 300 'Dancer..what speeds/rpm?

YeOldeStonecat

Active Member
Jun 10, 2018
332
Waterford, CT, boat in Deep River, CT
Boat Info
'97 300 DA "Me-Shell"
Engines
Twin 5.7 V-Drive
Going through the motions of purchasing a '97 300 SunDancer. She has 604 hours on the pair-o-5.7's, v-drives.

We have a surveyor who was recommended by a lot of resources, including several posts in this forum.

Anyways, for my curiosity...I know straight inboards and v-drives loose a bit of performance from the I/O's. I know a lot of boats with a pair of 350's with bravo III's would nudge 50. And with single props would be low to mid 40's. What should the same setup on v-drives get...36 or 38 mpg? What's good rpm for WOT? I'm sure the surveyor would know just curious for myself as I eyeball the gauges on the sea trial.

Believe the tanks will have ~75 gallons. Current owner quite meticulous...does much of his own work and I've seen it, he's a carpenter that does fine woodworking for boats. Fresh bottom paint this year, just launched ~10 days ago, well scraped/sanded so the paint job is smooth not several layers crusty and peeling.
 
Under ideal conditions (clean bottom, engines perfect running condition, no wind, no waves, etc) you should be able to hit around 40. I'd be happy with 35-38 considering age, etc. Recommended WOT RPM's for those engines is between 4400-4800RPM.
 
Had the sea trial today. Idle, and up to around 3/4 throttle...she ran great. Once the Captain put her to WOT..started getting popping out of the port engine. Starboard engine got to 5,000 rpm, port engine around 4,400 rpm but she was protesting with pops (backfiring). GPS had us around 34 knots. Capt Chris Nebel (That Boat Guy) was our surveyor. Said engines running nice 'n cool anyways, and sounded great otherwise, likely a timing or ignition issue that should easily be sorted out.
When we came back for hang time on the winch exam, the owner came by to check on the sea trial...and was alarmed at the "popping". The owner never took it above 3,600rpm...so he never knew. We took it out on a 2nd quick sea trial with the owner at the helm and at first he didn't want to run her WOT..was afraid of taking the engines that high, but Capt Chris encouraged him and said it's all OK..good to do that to the engines now 'n then. So the owner heard some popping too.
 
So what's going to be done if anything? 34 knots at 3400rpm is really moving. 4400 rpm is about max at wot. Sounds like the boat could use another inch of pitch in the props. Could be a minor issue of spark plugs or dist. cap.
 
I musta gotten distracted by a phone call. So to answer "what will be done"...owner/seller has to fix the port engine. Agreed...hopefully just distributor cap, or wiring. Possibly ignition system...none of which is too much $.
The survey showed up other minor things, only 2 other big items I want addressed are...all 3 batteries failed his test, and the cutlass bearings had a little wiggle on 'em..not bad, surely enough to finish the season if not another 3.
Slight soft spot on the deck to the starboard side of the sun deck area up front. Water pump system had a leak preventing good pressure buildup to stop the pump. Rear bilge float didn't work. Navigation 'n anchor light pole atop the radar arch didn't work. I noticed a slight incorrect curve on the trailing end of a blade on the port prop...very minor, like it whumped a soft log. When she was up on the slings, I also noticed the divers plate anode on the stern...the 2 bolts through the transom were loose through the hull. Seeped water into the engine bilge. Had those pulled, sealed, tightened while she was up.

Wondering if the props have been reconditioned...and lost some diameter...if the starboard engine was nudging 5k.
 
That's actually a pretty good list of issues. If it were me, I would ask for the seller to fix everything and deliver a sound boat. Now, he will most likely tell you to pound sand but depending on how bad he wants to sell he may say OK. doesn't hurt to throw the poop against the wall and see what sticks. Anyway, if/when he balks at your demands ask, "What will you fix?" It's time to negotiate.

Good luck. I hope it all works out and remember....don't get emotional at this point. This is a business deal and if you don't get this one you'll get the next. You're in the driver's seat.
 
Whelp...owner/seller won't budget. Well..he agreed to replace the engine bilge pump...but won't budge on taking care of the engine, the broker said the seller actually went to the engine mechanic at the yard and said "They took it up to 6,000 rpm and it started popping a little" and the mechanic told him it was just the rev limiter kicking in.
Myself...I saw it start popping at around 4200-4300 rpm..she never made it up past 4500rpm. As did the Captain that the broker hired for the sea trial, and the surveyor.

Fighting the emotions...she was extra clean and very nicely done inside, gorgeous custom woodwork, cabinets, etc. But having to get 3x new batts..and with the owner pulling that stunt about the engine tune-up...my wife and I are trying to keep realistic and walk away.

Asked the broker if the yard will do anything to help meet in the middle, since we'd be new clients of theirs staying there year around..that's 6 grand a year plus work for the marina! Think they'd try to help close the gap on the deal.
 
It’s a tough call.
The popping could be as simple as a cap and rotor replacement (which cured the popping issue I had late last season) or as bad as a valvetrain issue, or something in between.
 
OR (to play devil's advocate and speaking from experience) the popping and failure to get up to WOT rpm's could be low to no compression in one or even two cylinders from a shot valve intake. In which case the whole upper unit needs a rebuild complete with new heads. Just saying ...that's what happened to me when I had a little sputter/pop which only happened at higher RPM's. That was on my old 24ft with a 350 carbed engine.

It could be something simple, but it also could be something serious. You don't really know.

I would walk away.
 
Run....Fast. There are plenty of other boats out there and you will find one better and in a few months tell yourself how glad you are the deal fell through.

Personally I don't see how that engine revved to 6000 RPMs under-propped.

The seller now has a bigger problem. Everything that was discovered during survey should now be disclosed in the listing now that the seller knows the issues exist. Tip: always insist the seller or a licensed captain conduct the sea trial.
 
Doesn’t sound to me like the owner was that great at keeping his boat up. He must be better at woodworking.
 
The popping and the soft spot would be deal breakers for me. The other stuff sounds relatively minor. If the seller won't budge, I'd wish him good luck, and move along to the next candidate.
 
He won't fix the popping? And he heard it too?? Damn, If I was the owner I'd be more concerned for myself then trying to sell it. If he doesn't care I'd walk away.
 
He just keeps insisting it's the over rev protection. (I know it's not) I got the broker to get the marina to take on the "having their top mechanic take a look this week". I pushed my angle of "I'll be a new returning customer paying 6K + per year for your slip and winter storage, plus shop business". If it's a minor issue like distributor or plug wires or plugs or fuel filter..I don't mind taking that on. I insisted on a computer printout from the engine. Also asked for a compression test just to rule out bad valves/piston rings/cylinders.

Question...are the transoms of this model SOLID glass or foam core? Since I did notice that the divers zinc plate on the transom had a little wiggle room with the through bolts, if it's foam core transom that makes me think it got water logged. if it's solid glass, or if there are reenforcement tubes or something in there...less of a worry.
 
Update to the story, my pitch to the marina worked. They had their mechanic go over both engines, ran engine diag and compression test on both. Compression within 15% on both engines (basically from 155-175). He found a tracking issue with the distributor cap of the port engine, replaced the cap and rotator as well as the plugs. They took another sea trial and ran her WOT and said no more popping/backfiring.

Also getting a pair of new gr-27 batteries for low cost. Owner put in new bilge pump.
Closing is Friday...wife and I looking forward to spending out first weekend on the boat this weekend!.

So..guess I'll become a permanent member here now! :)
 
Sounds like a good outcome.

I would suggest another sea trial with YOU on the boat.
 
Good deal - friend had one of these, nice boat with v-drives in a 30ft Sundancer - the 290 with outdrives replaced it in 98. Engine room is tight, but that's the case in about any < 35' with twins. As far as the transom anode, hopefully the bolts are just loose - I can't say for sure about the transom, but I know the hull bottom on that boat is solid glass. I would get to the bottom of it though.
 
I had a 95' 300 with same engines and v-drives, got similar speed and loved it. pita to service motors due to cramped engine room, but all else was great. If you run into questions, I'm happy to help. I had to replace my port motor and became very familiar with the systems over the years, Congrats. Dan
 

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