Sea Ray vs....

Discussion in 'Sport Boats' started by ironexecutioner, Aug 9, 2009.

  1. Presentation

    Presentation Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 3, 2006
    Wisconsin - Winnebago Pool chain of lakes
    280 Sundancer, Westerbeke MPV generator
    twin 5.0's w/BIII drives
    I have experience with both.

    For relaxing cruises and all around fun, go with the I/O.

    For hairpin turns that are sure to keep no one in the boat dry, go with the Jet.

    Either way you've made a good choice.


    PS: the original poster mentions cost several times.
    Jet boats suck lots of gas but tend to have lower total operating costs due to less maintenance expense. They are also less expensive to buy, new or used.
    I presently own a 280 Sundancer and a 3 person PWC.
     
  2. ironexecutioner

    ironexecutioner New Member

    34
    Aug 9, 2009
    PA
    Boatless
    Boatless
    The one dealer I spoke to today does not do test rides on the water. I plan to keep searching for one that may though. Can you go into the service statement a bit more? Everyone seems to have skipped over this and every dealer I talk to says "oh all you have is winterization" which I know is not all you should plan on. I would get it winterized as my garage is not heated. The Sea Ray dealer I spoke to today said that runs 240$. They also said they store boats for 24$/ft for the winter months. One time charge per year. Are there certain models that come with the closed loop system or is that an aftermarket setup that one adds? What are you considering "occasional salt water use"? Thanks!
     
  3. black magic

    black magic New Member

    100
    Mar 25, 2009
    La Porte, TX
    2007 185 Sport w/Tower
    4.3L
    That is a great point and one of the reasons I strayed from Sea Doo. There weren't many "plan B dealers" if things went south with the one I were to purchased from... even in Houston.
     
  4. billandamy

    billandamy New Member

    Oct 22, 2007
    Southwest CT
    2008 205 sport. MonsterTower wakeboard tower.
    5.0 mpi (260 hp) alpha one drive with 19p ss prop.
    Any of those are good choices, you'll be happy with any of them, however, make sure you get the 4.3 motor at the minimum, imo if you are going to be doing a lot of watersports.
     
  5. comsnark

    comsnark New Member

    Apr 10, 2007
    NJ Shore
    SeaRay SunSport
    5.7LX
    There is a reason they are glossing over the service aspect. . . . just remember what BOAT stands for. Break Out Another Thou.

    Winterization for a I/O engine at a dealer may very well cost $240. But that will not include the necessary oil change (for which they may well charge another $240), maintenence of the outdrive (lubricate, leak check), or the required tune up in the spring (necessary after fogging the engine in the fall)

    Nor does this $240 include replacing the raw water pump impeller (probably a few hundred) every 50-100 running hours (2-3 years tops) on the boat. And it certainly will not include the shrink wrapping that they will try to sell you for winter storage.

    For a 18-22' I/O drive boat, I would figure about $1000 per year for maintenance. Plus fuel. Plus "winter storage". . . .need a plan for that.

    For a jet boat, I don't know what is involved. My jetski's run about $90 spring and fall for the necessary work. If you are looking at a jet boat with two engines. . .figure $400-$500 per year. Remember. . . . no volume discount for servicing two engines. Twins= 2x single engine service. Sometimes more (rich people with twin engine boats obviously have money to give poor little dealer struggling to make ends meet)

    And I NEVER met a dealer willing to test drive a boat on the water. Others say they have done a test drive. . .but I never was offered and was ALWAYS refused when I asked. The said "no contract, no ride". That is the MAIN reason I bought used. (No way was I plunking 40 large on a stupid 22' bow rider I never had on the water. . . And a contract is a contract. . .I don't sign a contract when merely shopping). When buying used, much easier to get a few rides to see what you are buying.
     
  6. billandamy

    billandamy New Member

    Oct 22, 2007
    Southwest CT
    2008 205 sport. MonsterTower wakeboard tower.
    5.0 mpi (260 hp) alpha one drive with 19p ss prop.
    Except wakeboarding :grin:
     
  7. ironexecutioner

    ironexecutioner New Member

    34
    Aug 9, 2009
    PA
    Boatless
    Boatless
    THANK YOU. that's some info I wanted. He did seem to state that the 240$ did include an oil change. So $1000 plus fuel plus storage as a fair estimate? Basically the way I want to handle this is I want to set aside an amount that I take out of each pay check all year long and form my "Boat fund" so that I don't come up short and have to pull unexpected money from wherever. Do others agree with that expected amount? Is an oil change performed as easily on a boat as a car?

     
  8. ksarauer

    ksarauer New Member

    7
    Jun 22, 2009
    Waconia, MN
    210 Bowrider 2001
    MerCruiser 5.0 with Alpha I Drive
    I have a 2001 210 Sea Ray and have stored it in the garage during summer months, and in a pole shed during winter months. (It does not cost me for storage) If you need storage in the winter months, 20-25/foot for a boat under 26' is pretty common.

    I've also been told to plan for $1000/year on maintenance.
    I change oil twice a year, and winterize it every other year myself. Winterizing is pretty easy, and takes a couple hours, oil filter, oil, and 1-2 gallons of antifreeze. Less than $100 when I do it.
    The years I do have it serviced, I figure $300 to winterize it. I've replaced the gimbal (sp?) bearing twice in the past 7 years. This costs an additional ~$200 each time. I've had purchased a battery the year after I bought it, and one again this year (added it as a 2nd battery). I have not had any other issues with the boat. I have yet to spend a $1000 a year for maintenance. - knock on wood, it's been a good boat! Needless to say, I am very proud of our purchase.
    If you store it in the water, your yearly costs will be more to clean the hull, polish/wax, dock rental, etc...

    We have 3 kids, ages 9-14 and they love tubing. If it was just the wife and I we would have looked at a different boat. I think it depends on how you would like to spend you time on the water. If it was just the wife and I we would have looked at different boats, one with a cabin. Because we have kids, it was not practical for us at this time. Bottom line, your decisions may be different depending on how you plan on using the boat.
    We plan on spending ~$200 a year on miscellanious items - life jackets, water toys, beach bag, grill, etc... Stuff that you use over and over that add up but tend to be forgotten about.

    I'm not familiar with the lakes your interested in, but I believe they are comparable to what I experience... We do most of our boating on Lake Minnetonka (in MN). There are many types/sizes of boats, up to 60' and we see a lot of boats in the 20' - 24' range. It can get to be a rough ride at times, but not bad by any means.


    Wow... time to end this post... :smt024
    Just trying to provide you with what we've experienced and insight...
     
  9. comsnark

    comsnark New Member

    Apr 10, 2007
    NJ Shore
    SeaRay SunSport
    5.7LX
    Ok. . .here is my experience: I have a 28' boat. It has twin engines. My winterization bill is roughly $700, including two oil changes at about $190 each. Can't remember. . this may include removing and storing outdrives off the boat. In the spring, I get a bill about $1200 for reinstalling drives, installing new zincs, any necessary drive maintenance (not impellers), as well as new plugs. Small maintenance items that take the tech under 1/2 hour total (but would take me weeks) are not included on the bill.

    Replacing outdrive impellers (this is a wear item) is done every two or three years, and costs $2-500 (can't remember). Zincs and bottom paint is annual - but only if you store in water. Don't forget $50-$100 of waxing stuff. The Porter Cable 7524 is a wonderful tool.

    This is with an independent mechanic who comes to my house. A dealer will charge possibly competitive rates, but will add line items for "environmental surcharges", "shop rags",and "Battery Removal" ($27 each! I have a quote!) and depending on honesty will make parts like thermostats an annual replacement item.

    The winterization is fairly constant bill. Spring bill is a bit higher because the mechanic goes on a fishing expedition looking for broken things and everything shows up on the spring bill. Usually, one drive or the other requires new seals (WTF). I once needed a new gimball ring ($500).

    As I said above, I can count on $700 in the fall, and $1800 in the spring (this year was less, because nothing was broken!). I am fairly certain that if I had one engine, I would pay exactly half.

    My Jetski mechanic also comes to the house. . and makes everything happen for $90 per ski.

    - - - - -

    Winterstorage requires a plan. If you are on a trailer and have a truck, you have many options. Your garage? In a barn? Side of the house (CHECK ZONING -> Many towns will not allow boat/RV storage in your yard. My subdivision allows a 28'x10' boat maximum.) I use a big tarp to cover my boat. Costs $60 every year. Most people where I am use shrink wrap -> $200-$300 for a 20' boat? Custom cover (lasts 10 years - but is really good) will be $500-$1000. My jetski's go in the garage and are uncovered. I have been quoted $100 to shrink wrap them.
    - - - -

    For you, buying new, I would download a service manual for engine/drive and talk to a dealer / mechanic about how much the routine services cost. Do NOT ask the salesperson.

    - - - - -

    DO NOT forget insurance. This is VERY zip code dependent. My jetskis have $300K liability only for $300 (EACH). My 28' Searay costs $700 for $500K liability and purchase price hull value. Naturally, I have my fat home/auto umbrella policy extended to both, and the boats are a definate ADDER to the premium. Don't let your teenage son, or your stupid friend do something stupid and lose your house.

    - - - - -

    For the DIY: Oil change is stupid easy, except that you can't drain from the bottom of the engine. You suck out through the dip tube. Others know better. Fogging is similar easy, and so is filling the engine with antifreeze. (oh. . that is part of winterization); I am lazy and know nothing so I pay. I also like having someone who actually KNOWS what is going on look at the boat twice per year. Several minor problems have been caught and resolved off season without an on the water "oh crap" because of this.

    I did finally figure out how to winterize my fresh water systems. . and the 1 hours of effort and $20 of pink stuff (4 gallons) saves me $100 off the winterization bill.

    It is possible to shrink wrap your own stuff.
     
  10. K-9

    K-9 New Member

    477
    Jul 4, 2009
    long island sound
    1980 sea ray sundancer 260 raymarine c120w radar/sonar+
    6.2mag 320hp
    B3 seacore ss props
    salt water sea core
     
  11. ironexecutioner

    ironexecutioner New Member

    34
    Aug 9, 2009
    PA
    Boatless
    Boatless
    Thank you. The removal and reinstalling of the outdrives.. is that something that occurs with all boats or just larger ones? Something that must be done? If not, what is the benefit? Approx how many hours do you put on your boat each season? Thanks
     
  12. ironexecutioner

    ironexecutioner New Member

    34
    Aug 9, 2009
    PA
    Boatless
    Boatless
    Is this something that can be installed on say a 185 sport or is it just something that comes from factory on certain models? If it is an option, any approx cost? And to what degree of salt water use would it be worth while to obtain?
     
  13. douglee25

    douglee25 Well-Known Member

    Jan 13, 2008
    NJ
    Boatless
    Big ones!
    Pulling the drives is optional. Some do it, some don't. A lot pull them in the fall because they're going to do maintenance on them in the spring anyway, which will require removal at that time.

    As a side note, if you're handy, you can save yourself a ton by purchasing the service manual and taking on the winterizing/springizing yourself. It's not difficult. In fact, you could winterize a smaller boat like that in a couple of hours. There isn't much to them.

    Doug
     
  14. Presentation

    Presentation Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 3, 2006
    Wisconsin - Winnebago Pool chain of lakes
    280 Sundancer, Westerbeke MPV generator
    twin 5.0's w/BIII drives
    I do not agree with Dougs post unless you feel changing the oil in the engine is also optional and you just want to run the boat until it breaks or sinks.

    Maintenance reasons to pull the outdrive:

    Grease various parts to prevent premature wear. This needs to be done about every other year or 100 hours, what eve comes first.

    Check engine / drive alignment. You may as well do this when you have the drive off.

    Change bellows so the boat does not sink. This needs to be done about ever 4 to 6 years.

    Replace the trim gauge and trailer trim sending units. They last about 4 to 6 years.

    Other items like changing the oil and tightening the gimbel ring, changing the anodes, greasing some of the parts, touching up the paint and adjusting the trim gauge sending unit can be performed with the drive on.
     
  15. douglee25

    douglee25 Well-Known Member

    Jan 13, 2008
    NJ
    Boatless
    Big ones!
    I guess you failed to read the rest of my post.

    Comsnark was referring to pulling the drives in the fall for winterization. Iron asked about pulling the drives if it was necessary or not. My answer was in response to his question.

    So quick to judge, so quick to judge....

    Doug
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2009
  16. ironexecutioner

    ironexecutioner New Member

    34
    Aug 9, 2009
    PA
    Boatless
    Boatless
    How detailed are the service manuals? Are there classes that I could find that will give instruction on proper methods or is that uncommon?
     
  17. douglee25

    douglee25 Well-Known Member

    Jan 13, 2008
    NJ
    Boatless
    Big ones!
    If you get the actual mercruiser manuals (which actually can be found online for free I believe), they are pretty detailed.

    I am unsure if you can find classes. They may offer them somewhere.

    Edit: Where are you located?

    Doug
     
  18. Jack F

    Jack F Active Member

    Oct 3, 2008
    Cape Cod
    2008 240DA,
    Garmin 545s,
    North Star NS100ss.
    MMSI#338093894
    350 Mag Seacore BR3
    I couldn't find them online so I ordered them.

    Engine service manual
    Price: 71.45 Quantity: 1 Total: $71.45

    Sterndrive service manual
    Price: 71.45 Quantity: 1 Total: $71.45

    Parts manual - Engine
    Price: 14.30 Quantity: 1 Total: $14.30

    Parts manual - Sterndrive
    Price: 14.30 Quantity: 1 Total: $14.30


    Order Total: $171.50
    Shipping + Handling: $9.95
    *Total: $181.45
     
  19. ironexecutioner

    ironexecutioner New Member

    34
    Aug 9, 2009
    PA
    Boatless
    Boatless
    Harrisburg pennsylvania. Are these similar to the shop manuals you get for cars? (Not the ones sold at auto zone, the real ones used by the dealerships)
     
  20. Jack F

    Jack F Active Member

    Oct 3, 2008
    Cape Cod
    2008 240DA,
    Garmin 545s,
    North Star NS100ss.
    MMSI#338093894
    350 Mag Seacore BR3
    I believe they are the same ones the techs use.
     

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