Sea Ray Diesels

Sindbad

Sindbad

Member
Apr 11, 2010
218
North Channel
Boat Info
340 Sundancer 2006
390 Sundancer 2005
44 Sundancer 2006
Engines
8.1L Horizons (2006)
8.1L HO (2005)
Cummins QSC 500 (44 DA, 2006)
Following our first long distance trip with our yacht club, I am now a definite believer in diesels. We traveled 475 miles round trip to Mackinac Island (Lake Huron) and the diesel boats had much better mileage/range ......not to mention the lower cost/gal vs. gas. I am planning to start looking for diesel and will likely stay with the Sundancer model, 2003-2005 vintage. We like our 2005 DA 390 with the 8.1HOs, but planning to do more long distance trips. I have heard lots of "water cooler" chatter about diesel over the years (e.g. high maintenance, etc. etc.) but am now looking for good factual trusted input from folks on the CSR board. I would appreciate any input, particularly with the 2003-2005 model years, and any things to avoid. Thanks so much.

Capt Frank
 
We have had both, gas and diesel. If you do a lot of long distance, diesels make sense. If short local runs, I would stay with gas. Maintenance on diesels can get very expensive. It also depends on what diesels engines you get. Frank Webster told me the 3116 Cats are great, low maintenance engines. I love the power of diesels, we have 8V92 Detroits, 735HP each, its like a tank coming up on place.
 
Bahamabreisus, thanks for the input; much appreciated.
 
We have 3126's in our 1998 450DA (similar to Frank's) and love them! We tend to burn a 3rd of what our gasoline counterparts do when on long-distant runs!
 
Dj -

Is that a CAT model?

Thanks.
 
I've got 9 years on Lakes Michigan and Huron with a 410DA powered by CAT 3126TA's (385hp). Trying to sell to move to a trawler but I'm sure going to miss the ride, economy and reliability this boat has provided for long distance family cruising where time has been a factor. And very easy around the dock.
 
We have the Cummins 450hp C series diesels in our 2004 420 Sundancer. We could not be happier with performance, fuel economy and reliability. As far as high cost maintenance is concerned... I do my own regular maintenance and no issue there with cost... with major issues my feeling is they come when there is a lack of preventative maintenance, not propped properly or running the boat too hard.

2003 and 2004 Sea Ray used the 450hp mechanical Diamonds in the 420's... in 2005 Cummins switched from a mechanical diesel to electronic. My understanding is the mechanicals are a lot less complex so less things to go wrong but I am no expert. A good source would be Seaboard Marine... ask Tony what the Pros and cons of both are on his forum and I am sure he would be happy to explain. https://www.sbmar.com/

As far as things to avoid...if your looking at 2003-2005 Sundancer's I am not aware of any issues. I know when I was looking I wanted a 390 with Diesels but they were almost impossible to find in fresh water. The 420 was very popular in that year range so there are a lot more out there but still hard to find. The 2003 had the canvas top on the 420. 2004 was the first year with the hard top. If it was my choice I would go with the hard top.

Good luck on your search
 
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Have had both gas and diesels.

Agree with all the comments above.

Day to day, diesels are more economical when it comes to buying fuel for traveling a distance. But there are maintenance costs that when required can amount to significant dollars. Have heard more often though that a properly maintained diesel has more engine life in hours.

Read somewhere one time that the cut over point is in the mid 30's LOA. If you are 30-35ft, gas is fine, maybe the preferable power. Over 35ft then diesels are preferred. Not sure how scientifically accurate that statement is.

My preference is diesels. Our next boat will be over that threshold in length and will be used for long distance cruising.

Mark
 
Dan,

Good to hear. What avg. mi/gal do you get, since the 420 DA is the model I will be looking for?

Thanks,

Frank
 
Thanks Mark.
 
I am going to assume you boat nearly entirely in fresh water based on your location and comments. If so the "water cooler" issues you hear about would not be an issue for you.

For salt water boats, any turbo powered Cummins engine has the aftercooler as the weak link in the engine. In salt water the aftercooler should be removed, disassembled, cleaned, inspected and put back together with liberal grease every 2-3 years. Failure to do so will likely end up in it plugging, causing a water leak and feeding the turbo with large amounts of salt water and/or filling your bilge with water! This is 6-8 hours of labor per engine, plus parts. On average its about $1200 per engine every 2-3 years done by a professional.

I would assume the 03-05 420DA runs about the same as my 07 44DA does (same hull as 420DA), I normally run at about 25 kts burning about 37 gal/hour.

The 420/44 DA is a great boat - I would HIGHLY recommend the hardtop, makes it so much nicer. I believe it was introduced as an option in 04 so there are some 04's with it, in 05 and 06 it was still an option but don't think many boats were made without it, and I think in 07 it became standard.
 
I also concur with most of the comments above. We have a 2001 460 with Cummins 6CTA engines. I get about .8mpg on plane and 1.3 at hull speed. I'll admit that I love the diesel power and I also love to tinker with the mechanics. If you are not a diy person the labor on the diesels is significantly more just because a diesel mechanic is averaging 150.00 an hour around here and a gas mechanic can be had for 100 an hour. Diesel engines also use more oil, have more expensive filters and parts. I like the comments about size of the boat above and I think that's a good range of gas versus diesel but I'll also add this. In my opinion, gas boats are good for 1000-1200 hours before a major overhaul or refit. Diesel boats are good for 3000-3500 in the marine environment. That's my thoughts and so if you are running the boat for a long time the pricing gap is not so far apart.

All in all, if you can afford the diesels I would get them, you will like the performance better, like the lack of co2, and the resale is significantly higher. My .02


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NotHerDecision said:
In my opinion, gas boats are good for 1000-1200 hours before a major overhaul or refit. Diesel boats are good for 3000-3500 in the marine environment.


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There are so many variables that using those numbers are not even close to being accurate.

What matters on any engine is how well it's maintained. I've maintained (and owned) both Diesel and Gas boats. The problem for lots of boats are cheap owners who want to treat their boat like an automobile and only fix something when it breaks. These engines will have a shorter than necessary life span whether gas or diesel. On a boat that is correctly maintained the life of the engines can be greatly increased. I've seen gas engines that would rival a diesel in longevity because the owner took care of them.
 
Excellent. Thanks Dan.
 
Swaterhouse - Yes, boat solely in Great Lakes. I agree on the hardtop, which I have on my current 390 2005 DA. Some of the guys (w/out hardtop) in our club said it adds weight, therefore fuel burn. Perhaps, but in the grand scheme it can't be a factor that would move the needle in my opinion. Thanks for the input.

Frank
 
Thanks NotHer Decision.
 
NotHerDecision said:
I also concur with most of the comments above. We have a 2001 460 with Cummins 6CTA engines. I get about .8mpg on plane and 1.3 at hull speed. I'll admit that I love the diesel power and I also love to tinker with the mechanics. If you are not a diy person the labor on the diesels is significantly more just because a diesel mechanic is averaging 150.00 an hour around here and a gas mechanic can be had for 100 an hour. Diesel engines also use more oil, have more expensive filters and parts. I like the comments about size of the boat above and I think that's a good range of gas versus diesel but I'll also add this. In my opinion, gas boats are good for 1000-1200 hours before a major overhaul or refit. Diesel boats are good for 3000-3500 in the marine environment. That's my thoughts and so if you are running the boat for a long time the pricing gap is not so far apart.

All in all, if you can afford the diesels I would get them, you will like the performance better, like the lack of co2, and the resale is significantly higher. My .02



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3000-3500?? I hope you mean to break-in. It's not uncommon to see commercial 3116 and 3208 Cat's with 8 thousand hours on a well maintained boat.
 
CSR folks, thanks for all the valuable input.....much appreciated.......now to start the search!

Frank
 
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