Saltwater or freshwater boats/better purchase???? HELP

M

Msk4marshall

New Member
Jan 24, 2014
5
Charleston, WV
Boat Info
Looking at 280 Sundancers
Engines
Trying to decide.
Looking to buy 2003-2006 280 Sundancer ASAP. Finding many available in salty areas of the country. Am I safe buying one that has spent its life in saltwater? I'll be 100% freshwater on lakes and rivers. Thanks for any assistance.
 
If it was properly maintained and has a clean survey, there is no reason to balk at a good boat that has been in salt water. A good surveyor will be your insurance policy so ask for recommendations here from people in your region.
 
You will get varied opinions on this one, as Ken and I disagree, but I only would purchase a freshwater vessel for freshwater use. Salt water use with outdrives has certain maintenance issues and I see no reason to purchase those issues and need to watch out for them in a freshwater environment.

Good luck,

MM
 
MonacoMike said:
You will get varied opinions on this one, as Ken and I disagree, but I only would purchase a freshwater vessel for freshwater use. Salt water use with outdrives has certain maintenance issues and I see no reason to purchase those issues and need to watch out for them in a freshwater environment.

Good luck,

MM
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Mike, you did mention something I did not take into account. I would most likely not purchase an out drive boat from saltwater unless it was on a lift and flushed routinely. I stand corrected......partially.
 
MM is the voice of reason.
Lots of 280's out there. In my opinion, finding a 8 year old salt water out drive that has been properly cared for is no easy task. Not that they aren't out there, but please don't buy one thinking that you'll "just replace 'em next year". Price one (or two) before you leap.

edit - be careful buying a boat while in "ASAP" mode.
 
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Parts are not cheap. Not only do you face many maintenance issues with a saltwater outdrive but the engine itself will have many issues. Frozen bolts and corrosion will not be a one time issue to deal with. It will plague ownership for years. The only boat I would own from a saltwater environment would be an outboard (where as you back up to the dumpster and toss it in then repower) or an inboard with heat exchanger system. Go inland for your search. There are lots of boats available and it's worth the drive.
 
Last Dollar said:
Parts are not cheap. Not only do you face many maintenance issues with a saltwater outdrive but the engine itself will have many issues. Frozen bolts and corrosion will not be a one time issue to deal with. It will plague ownership for years. The only boat I would own from a saltwater environment would be an outboard (where as you back up to the dumpster and toss it in then repower) or an inboard with heat exchanger system. Go inland for your search. There are lots of boats available and it's worth the drive.
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You do realize that replacing a pair of 225 mercs or yamies (the typical power on a boat equivalent to a 280) will cost as much as a used 280?


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Most 280's are not going to left in saltwater. They will be lift kept or better not stored in a high and dry which is out of the elements. As many people put minimal hours on a boat anyway (you know who you are) that means these boats although run in the salt are still in very good shape. I wouldn't hesitate to look/buy a salty boat just because it's been used in salt water. Maintenance is the key. The outdrive bolts and such shouldn't be frozen unless the baot salt in salt and the impellers were never changed. I totally disagree that buying a salt boat is a problem. My 280 has 560 hours (yes I use it!) and I don;t have 1 bolts that's frozen anywhere on my boat.
 
Bucit said:
Most 280's are not going to left in saltwater. They will be lift kept or better not stored in a high and dry which is out of the elements. As many people put minimal hours on a boat anyway (you know who you are) that means these boats although run in the salt are still in very good shape. I wouldn't hesitate to look/buy a salty boat just because it's been used in salt water. Maintenance is the key. The outdrive bolts and such shouldn't be frozen unless the baot salt in salt and the impellers were never changed. I totally disagree that buying a salt boat is a problem. My 280 has 560 hours (yes I use it!) and I don;t have 1 bolts that's frozen anywhere on my boat.
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+1 on lift kept and minimal maintenance issues. That said I "contaminated" a fresh water boat from Lake George, NY with evil brackish Chesapeake bay water :grin:. Just so happens it was relocated by the dealer to my area.

We have had boats in the family for 25 years, and as long as you wash down the exterior, flush the motors, and keep up with the routine / preventative maintenance of the raw water cooling components it should not be a problem. I certainly would not strike a well maintained salt water / brackish boat off the list "just because". Sure if there are freshwater boats in your area that work for you out there, pounce on them too.

To me its all about the boat, and the previous owner(s). Salt water boat w/o TLC is bad... but so too can a fresh water boat without TLC be a problem.

Just my .02.
 
Other issues you may face are all the electrical components that have been subjected to a least salt air if not some salt water. Things like starters and alternators and of course the worry of risers and manifolds. I remember seeing the bilge of a 3 year old boat here on CSR and all the bronze was fully coated in the patina from salt water corrosion, my 1997 still has bronze colored strainers etc. This issue usually comes down to freshwater boaters, like me, advocating stay fresh in fresh and salties saying it is no big deal. If one is going to put a boat in a salt environment there is not much to be gained by seeking out a freshwater vessel but conversely if you are boating in freshwater it is best to be patient and seek a freshwater boat.

Good luck, MM
 
Wow...I am overwhelmed with the differences in opinions. There are many out there. I've narrowed down to 2. First one being freshwater, lift kept under 200 hours, 1 owner. Second one is saltwater, lift kept, 400 hours, 2 owners, meticulous records. Both are similar twin 5.0s 2003 models. $13,000 difference in asking prices. Broker vs. owner. Actually looked and saw freshwater boat. Really clean and very interested. However, broker won't negotiate price without purchase agreement and 10% down just to negotiate. Lot of time and effort wasted just to get a price. Owner on other took time to speak with me and negotiate over phone before even making a trip to take a look. So I am trying to compare apples to apples. If freshwater boat was in the ballpark, I'd lean that way....however, right now....$13,000 is a lot of money for a lot of maintenance and fuel. How about them apples!!! Lol. Thanks for the assistance guys.
 
Take my opinion with a grain of "salt". Go see these boats before putting any offers in for the first bit of advice. It is just as much of an up hill battle trying to negotiate on a boat that you haven't physically been on as it is to give a broker a 10% deposit.

Second, if you are not picky a salt water boat would be just fine. I have not once ever see a salt water boat with no signs of salt use / corrosion / pitting / rust somewhere on board. Usually within the first minute of being on board I can see the difference. This is not a bad thing but its something I personally would go crazy over just from what I am used to.

If cosmetics aren't bothersome to you it all comes down to the mechanics of the boat, especially on a small out drive vessel.
 
Msk4marshall said:
However, broker won't negotiate price without purchase agreement and 10% down just to negotiate. Lot of time and effort wasted just to get a price.
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Not asking for the name, but that's not the broker I would want to have. As a seller I'd really annoyed if a potential buyer came to look at the boat, showed interest, and walked away because my broker was being stubborn. I understand that there can be a lot of casual browsers, and time wasters, but man thats just bad.
 
It also comes down to how long you plan to keep a salty before trying to sell it in a fresh water region. Any hint of green on bronze parts sends a LOT of freshwater buyers running. If you keep it for a while though, just saying "fresh water for the last 6 years" etc goes a long way to mitigate salt fear.
 
At this level of boating, the industry standard practice is as the broker says. The reason is pretty simple....the broker doesn't get paid until you buy the boat, so he isn't going to spend time negotiating for you until you are committed to his boat. It is just the way it is. The other side of the coin is that you don't want to waste time negotiating on the wrong boat. These aren't like autos. "What is your selling price or bottom line price?" is a meaningless question......you will never find out the bottom line cost until you convince the seller you are a serious and qualified buyer....and you do that with a contract and a deposit check.

Furthermore, you should never buy a boat, particularly and outdrive boat, without seeing it in person. There have been several freshwater corrosion horror stories here on CSR and you can identify that issue by just looking. Lift kept or dry stacked really makes a difference in condition and value. We have 650 dry stacked boats in my marina and it is on the Gulf coast. Many of the outdrive or outboards look brand new....even though they have never seen anything but salt water....because folks who boat here understand how to reduce the impact of salt water on drives. My point here is that it is about more than $$.......you need to find the best boat for you; condition and service history are critical to appraising how right each boat is.

Salt water is not acid and it isn't evil.........there are many very good-excellent salt water boats out there. It is true that your due diligence is more important, but don't discount a salt water boat. To give you an example, I own a 450DA that I've had since 1997....we maintain the boat and have been at this long enough to know what is needed. I was asked to look at 2 other 450DA's for a friend who is moving up.....both on the Tennessee river, one in Chattanooga and one on Lake Guntersville in Alabama. The Chattanooga boat was about a 7 out of 10 after the dealer spend $25K on refurbushment; the Guntersville boat was a 6.......my boat, that has spent every day of its existence in salt water is about 9.7 out of 10. You just never know until you go look at one and see its condition.

I realize I'm a little late to the party on this one, but I hope that helps...............
 
JimFromMD said:
Not asking for the name, but that's not the broker I would want to have. As a seller I'd really annoyed if a potential buyer came to look at the boat, showed interest, and walked away because my broker was being stubborn. I understand that there can be a lot of casual browsers, and time wasters, but man thats just bad.
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But.......it was probably a very honest answer. Most brokers are afraid of running off a potential buyer so their answer to the question may be "Oh, I think the seller will probably take $XXXXX (which is 90-93% of the listing price)....why don't you come on down and take a look at her" Well, take a look at the sold boat listings and you will see that the selling price is usually 7-10% less than the listing price, plus, the broker has probably already coached the seller with "You know buyers expect to negotiate some, so why not list the boat for 7-10% more than you really want to give yourself some room."

Don't fret the system.......learn how it works and make the system work for you. Find the right boat, then write a deposit check and ask the broker for a contract, fill it out, then hand it to him and tell him to stop talking and get busy making the deal work.
 
Thanks for sticking up for us Salty Dogs Frank! :smt038
 
Msk4marshall said:
Looking to buy Sundancer ASAP.
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The first thing I would suggest is that you slow down. My Rule #1 in buying a boat/car/truck/etc. is that the wrong boat, at the best price in the world, is still the wrong boat. A wonderful price does not make a bad boat into a good boat or the wrong boat into the right boat.

Secondly, I never as what a person will sell something for. I determine in my mind what I'm willing to pay for something, then make the seller an offer. He has a couple of choices he can make--turn down my offer or make a counter offer, or accept my offer. Either way, if he accepts or counters I know that I'm about to buy a boat for what I wanted to pay for it, or a negotiated price that was close to what I wanted to pay but is acceptable to me.

When I bought Beachcomber, we started negotiating in the first week of February and didn't seal the deal until the last week of March.

Take your time, do your homework, hire a surveyor to look over the boat, and examine it yourself. THEN you will know whether or not it's the right boat or the wrong boat. If it's not the right boat, why would you want it?
 
Salt water markets have lots of boats competing to sell, and that makes a competetive market. That's a driver when a pricing decision is reached. A given boat in Florida or the Chesapeake Bay market would probably be cheaper than the one on the Tennessee River. The salt environment and transporation costs certainly make a difference, but when I was looking, the differential was substantial, and I bought a boat in Florida. I looked at 4 380DAa in one day in the Tampa area.

Don
 
Frank,
Thanks for the more experienced perspective (not being sarcastic). I guess I was more bothered about it because he was there in person looking at the freshwater boat but the broker didn't want to talk. I could understand if he was trying to negotiate over the phone sight unseen. I've only been through the process once on my own, and I didnt have to put down a deposit or tentative contract until I wanted to move forward to survey and sea trial. That was my vantage point looking at the discussion.

That said, I do see your point in that the broker can say anything he wants about the price, but nothing is serious until something is on paper and you have some skin in the game.

James.
 
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