Rust on Engine/Missing Seat

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ASDF, Oct 29, 2017.

  1. ASDF

    ASDF Member

    57
    Sep 18, 2017
    Boatless
    Boatless
    hi all I'm looking at buying a 96 370 sundancer..only problem is..owner said something happened to the single cockpit seat on the port side before he owned it and previous owner just got rid of it. Does anyone know replacement cost? I can't seem to fine that exact seat online anywhere.
     
  2. ASDF

    ASDF Member

    57
    Sep 18, 2017
    Boatless
    Boatless
    IMG_3026.JPG IMG_3025.JPG here's pictures
     
  3. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    ASDF, I'd be wondering what else the prior owners had not taken care of. Something like a missing seat is not a minor thing, it might be an indicator of other things like poor maintenance. Anyone who buys a boat like a 370 and doesn't take the time or spend the money to replace a seat makes me wonder.

    Be sure to get a competent surveyor.
     
  4. RollerCoastr

    RollerCoastr Well-Known Member

    Nov 15, 2007
    Cedar Point, OH / Miami, FL / MacRay Harbor, MI
    1997 400DA
    340HP 7.4 Mercruiser Bluewaters
    Garmin 8212, 741 24HD, Intellian I2
    1999 280BR
    Twin 250HP Merc 350 Alpha Ones
    I've actually seen other 370DA's missing that seat. I don't disagree that it could be a bad sign, but it at least has an asterisk.
     
  5. rondds

    rondds Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Oct 3, 2006
    Jersey Shore
    2001 380DA
    Merc 8.1s (2008)...Hurth ZF 63 V-drives...WB 7.0 BCGD (2013), Garmin 8208 & 740 MFDs, GMR 24xHD dome
    The crappy SR plywood that backs and bottoms that seat is notorious for rotting away. I can see why someone would scrap the whole idea in that case, esp if he prefers having the counter space. This happened to a friend of mine on the helm and the shotgun seat. He rebuilt both seats and put the same cushions and upholstery back on.
     
  6. ASDF

    ASDF Member

    57
    Sep 18, 2017
    Boatless
    Boatless
    IMG_3022.JPG IMG_3021.JPG Cool thanks guys and yes that was my first thought was if he doesn't care about fixing this what else wasn't fixed. Good to know though I can rebuild with plywood. I'm thinking I may pass on this boat only due to the unknown with the rust and leaking at the riser manifold. The boat started on the Great Lakes and has been on lake George in Florida (freshwater lake) but I'm still concerned about anything that could lurk beneath considering its a RWC engine. I know they say it's fresh but you just never know if it's possible it's a little brackish. I talked with FWebster about it and he suggested having a look at risers manifolds before buying the boat. Here's a couple pics. It's a great price but if I have to replace two engines next month it won't be a good deal at all and my wife will finally get to see me cry!
     
  7. ASDF

    ASDF Member

    57
    Sep 18, 2017
    Boatless
    Boatless
    I'm moving the boat to the TN by the way, so fresh water.
     
  8. rondds

    rondds Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Oct 3, 2006
    Jersey Shore
    2001 380DA
    Merc 8.1s (2008)...Hurth ZF 63 V-drives...WB 7.0 BCGD (2013), Garmin 8208 & 740 MFDs, GMR 24xHD dome
    Rule of thumb is, if it's leaking outside it's probably leaking inside. Could be a serious problem in there. Compression check would be a must and I'd bet the cylinders below those elbows are going to test very poorly, because that's where the leak winds up.
     
  9. Raeoflight

    Raeoflight Member

    109
    Sep 29, 2015
    Pickwick, TN
    1999 SeaRay 460
    Twin diesel
    Where you moving it to on the TN?
     
  10. Stee6043

    Stee6043 Active Member

    890
    Jun 1, 2015
    West Michigan
    1999 Sundancer 340
    454 Mercruiser's w/ V Drives, Westerbeke gen set
    Is that rust on the intake also? I've got a '99 always fresh water boat and there is no rust anywhere on the motors. A touch of flaky paint here and there but no rust.

    Interesting...
     
  11. ASDF

    ASDF Member

    57
    Sep 18, 2017
    Boatless
    Boatless
    Moving it to Goosepond in scottsboro on lake guntersville if I buy it. Can get it for under $30k with 800hrs, camper canvas and very clean interior.
     
  12. RollerCoastr

    RollerCoastr Well-Known Member

    Nov 15, 2007
    Cedar Point, OH / Miami, FL / MacRay Harbor, MI
    1997 400DA
    340HP 7.4 Mercruiser Bluewaters
    Garmin 8212, 741 24HD, Intellian I2
    1999 280BR
    Twin 250HP Merc 350 Alpha Ones
    Same here with my freshwater '97. That seems like a great price, but that's a scary amount of rust. In fact, my salty '99's look better than that.
     
  13. ASDF

    ASDF Member

    57
    Sep 18, 2017
    Boatless
    Boatless
    I should add the oil looked and smelled just fine and the engines start right up and ran well as did the generator. I'm hoping this is a case of no internal damage and I can just replace the risers/manifolds and clean the bilge up.. but the unknown is what worries me.
     
  14. CliffA

    CliffA Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Dec 29, 2009
    Lake Norman, NC
    2001 Sea Ray 340DA
    Name: 'Happy Place'
    4.5kW West. Generator
    Purchased Nov. 2014
    Fresh Water Use
    Twin Merc. 6.2L (MPI)
    Raw Water Cooled
    V-Drive Transmissions
    one look at the rust on the engines and I would have walked away from that boat....but that's just me....to me that is a very clear sign that the boat has not been taken care of....any owner that took care of his boat and has pride in it would never let the engines look like that and would have replaced that missing seat....and that is just the things that are visible.....it really makes you wonder about the condition of the things you cannot see like inside the engine and genny.....

    again just my opinion....

    good luck with your search....

    cliff
     
  15. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    Just for the record, I suggested popping the risers off and inspecting the castings as a part of the survey BEFORE i saw the photos of the engines.

    After seeing the pictures in a subsequent PM.....freshwater boat? Right...and I am running a special on the Brooklyn Bridge until Friday too. I can easily add up $8-$10K worth of repairs including, seat base, blow molded seat form, cockpit upholstery, timing covers, intake manifolds, manifolds, risers, spacers, water pumps, etc. etc. so at a $30k starting point, this one will be an expensive project to do in a place with limited access to skilled marine tradesmen.

    I think the OP has decided to pass oon this one and keep looking............
     
  16. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    Price isn’t everything. That 30k boat could easily wind up costing you twice that or more by the time you get done with it.
    Unless you are really looking for a project I think I’d spend more money and get a nice clean boat that you could start to enjoy right away.
     
  17. ASDF

    ASDF Member

    57
    Sep 18, 2017
    Boatless
    Boatless
    I'm having a surveyor look over this one with a sea trail and a compression check. At $25k if the needed repairs aren't too bad I can afford to make them and still be under what I'd normally pay. I just feel the need to investigate this one further.
     
  18. 370Dancer

    370Dancer Member

    668
    Oct 2, 2006
    Florida - Alabama
    1998 370 Sundancer
    380hp MAG MPI V drives
    Sounds like you are not afraid of a project. I would, prior to purchase, definitely have someone remove the elbows on all 4 exhaust manifolds. You will understand a volume of information just by looking at the water passages, and the exhaust passages. If that has always been a fresh water boat, then those are probably the original exhaust pieces. I have lived through many rusted through hose clamps, spraying (salt and fresh) water all over the engines without realizing it until it has already happened. Search my posts. The 370 is a boat worth having, but you also need to know what you are getting into.

    You will never find the "replacement" seat for a Sea Ray older than 5-7 years unless you have it custom built, or find one off of a salvage boat. There are lots of possibilities for that space, which some have turned into a serving platform, some have found a seat close to the rest of the cockpit theme, and some have "rebuilt", including me. I replaced all of my bones in the cockpit with starboard. I will NEVER have plywood rot in the cockpit upholstery or trim. New skins this year = new cockpit on a 19 year old boat for me. Still cheaper than $500K for the 2017 version. (smiley face)
    BTW, I spend some time on Guntersville Lake, even though the 370 is back in Florida now. Very involved at Ditto Landing.
     
  19. ttmott

    ttmott Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 3, 2012
    Space Coast Florida
    2006 52 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins QSM11
    Have them do a leak down test not a compression check. The leak down will tell much more about the condition of the cylinders, piston rings, and valve train. This rust in the pictures seem isolated to that one area and can be attributed to a hose that leaked of something in that riser. To baseline the boat, if you should buy it, or any other boat with risers I would replace the risers anyway; they are probably the biggest source of engine damage; eliminate the question mark right of the start. My take is if the boat is overall well taken care of and clean this may not be a deal killer; but due diligence is your responsibility.
     
  20. ASDF

    ASDF Member

    57
    Sep 18, 2017
    Boatless
    Boatless
    Thanks guys that is great info. The loose/leaking hose possibility as a cause of some of the rust isn't something I had thought of. I'm trying to find a surveyor in central Florida that can do full survey plus mechanical like leak down (thanks ttmott).
     

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