Rotted floor/stringers on 1999 370. Help!

Creekwood said:
Maybe not dishonest, but a surveyor should know to caution a buyer that rot in any form in the interior of a cruiser can often be much more than what is immediately visible. He could have recommended a more comprehensive inspection or at least cautioned about the risks.

I can tell you if that buyer had posted the survey here on CSR and asked for advice from Sea Ray owners before buying, he would have been warned by most of us that he should either not buy the boat, or do a lot more investigation into the extent of the rot before making an offer. I would expect a surveyor to be at least as good as us who are not paid for our advice. This could have been avoided with a few words from a competent surveyor.
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This is the right thing the surveyor should have done and the discussion to have with the potential buyer during the survey. Comment that the surveyor is liable is bunk; they are well covered for both issues not seen and things missed in their report. I will say that these survey companies should have the disclaimers and a discussion with potential owners before they enter into an agreement to do a survey; not as a post facto note in the final document.
Regardless, to the owner - move forward and get a plan in place for the repairs then get on with it; the boat is yours now so make it a project and turn this into a positive. Then, enjoy your better than ever toy.
 
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DWABoat said:
Wow. Thanks for that, ttmott. I knew surveyors did not do any mechanical evaluations - got to hire a mechanic for that. I did not know they have that extensive of a disclaimer for the service of evaluating a boat for a potential buyer. So, lesson here is, even with a survey, if we ever plan to purchase a used boat, we better be unemotional and do our own detailed evaluation.
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For the larger boats two independent surveys are done; one for the hull which includes all of the boat's systems and one for the engines which includes the running gear.
 
douglee25 said:
Anymore updates?
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my friend met with another surveyor sent by his insurance company. The surveyor said who ever did the original survey should have told him to run. I guess the person who did the original survey has only been doing it for less than two years and does not have much experience. He said the boat is safe to use for another year...so my buddy is gonna save up, bite bullet and fix it next winter. Surveyor said it might have been that way for years. Lesson learned is if something needs fixing, make sure YOU get to pick who fixes and it have the seller pay for it all.
 
Creekwood said:
Maybe not dishonest, but a surveyor should know to caution a buyer that rot in any form in the interior of a cruiser can often be much more than what is immediately visible. He could have recommended a more comprehensive inspection or at least cautioned about the risks.

I can tell you if that buyer had posted the survey here on CSR and asked for advice from Sea Ray owners before buying, he would have been warned by most of us that he should either not buy the boat, or do a lot more investigation into the extent of the rot before making an offer. I would expect a surveyor to be at least as good as us who are not paid for our advice. This could have been avoided with a few words from a competent surveyor.
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I bought a boat in basically the same market and the bank required a survey (which I wanted anyway).

My survey felt like an underwriting formality meant to grease the skids, which is kind of crazy from the bank's perspective because they may be gaining a junk asset from a weak survey. It will hurt me, but at the end of the day I can always choose to walk away from the loan and the boat, but the bank will have to unload the boat and if its only worth 20% of its outstanding loan value it will cost them money.
 
mobocracy said:
I bought a boat in basically the same market and the bank required a survey (which I wanted anyway).

My survey felt like an underwriting formality meant to grease the skids, which is kind of crazy from the bank's perspective because they may be gaining a junk asset from a weak survey. It will hurt me, but at the end of the day I can always choose to walk away from the loan and the boat, but the bank will have to unload the boat and if its only worth 20% of its outstanding loan value it will cost them money.
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Maybe, but try getting another boat loan after walking away!
 
Sounds like buying a house...the appraisal always seem to come in right around the sale price then the loan gets approved! Voila! Everyone gets paid! Realtor, Closing Agent, Title Attorney, and Lending Bank.
 
DWABoat said:
Sounds like buying a house...the appraisal always seem to come in right around the sale price then the loan gets approved! Voila! Everyone gets paid! Realtor, Closing Agent, Title Attorney, and Lending Bank.
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Its like the years before 2008 all over again! I wonder if one of the banks is packaging up the boat loans and turning them into a high yield investment vehicle.
 
mobocracy said:
I bought a boat in basically the same market and the bank required a survey (which I wanted anyway).

My survey felt like an underwriting formality meant to grease the skids, which is kind of crazy from the bank's perspective because they may be gaining a junk asset from a weak survey. It will hurt me, but at the end of the day I can always choose to walk away from the loan and the boat, but the bank will have to unload the boat and if its only worth 20% of its outstanding loan value it will cost them money.
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You can't be serious..... So, you will walk away and leave us that pay due diligence and honesty with a lending institution with your burden for your simple convenience or ignorance? The lending institutions will not hold that debt; they pass on to their customers. Just so you know, surveys protect you, the lenders and the insurance underwriters. You gotta be better than that brother....
 
ttmott said:
You can't be serious..... So, you will walk away and leave us that pay due diligence and honesty with a lending institution with your burden for your simple convenience or ignorance? The lending institutions will not hold that debt; they pass on to their customers. Just so you know, surveys protect you, the lenders and the insurance underwriters. You gotta be better than that brother....
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It's a worst case outcome, obviously, and contingent on the stars aligning. A low-effort survey that doesn't accurately describe problems with the boat, a set of needed repairs which are some substantial percentage of the boat's purchase price, and no other avenue of redress.

I can't over-emphasize the "no other avenue of redress" as I would look at every other option first, including legal action, all possible repair options, and negotiating with the lender and probably anything else that I can't think of off the top of my head. Walking away from a loan isn't a healthy thing to anyone's credit record at a minimum.

But do you honestly expect me to eat a boat loan and a set of repairs in excess of some significant percentage of the boat's cost for some vague sense of obligation to the larger boating community? Sorry, I'm not willing to go in the poor house because everyone else got paid. Maybe you should focus your righteous indignation on totally dishonest people selling boats in known poor condition, surveyors who don't stand behind surveys. And the banks are big boys, too, you loan people money for an asset that serves as its own collateral, maybe you should do more to guarantee the asset lives up to its collateral value.

And yes, I did do my due diligence when I bought my boat, including paying for a survey and a complete mechanical inspection, and it still earned me $10k in repair work within two years for mechanical issues that should have been identified by MarineMax, especially considering much of them were known Mercruiser fuel system issues for boats in my model year. At least Mercury stood up and honored their product (at 10 years!) and provided warranty parts, including two full sets of fuel injectors.

Maybe the larger problem is the level of gross dishonesty in the boating business. That MarineMax mechanical inspection? They did the inspection and provided me with a list of issues that needed repair, and when I authorized repair they tried to charge me thousands of dollars more than their own presale inspection report quotes, including their own parts and labor rates being flat out wrong. It took a hard-nosed conversation with management to indicate I would consider a lawsuit alleging intentional fraud and collusion between their brokerage and service businesses, essentially low-balling mechanical issues to make a brokerage sale to get them to honor their own written quote.

My point wasn't "I walk away from loans when its inconvenient", either, my point was that the lender (who specializes in marine lending!) is as or nearly as dependent as I am on a quality marine survey, as this asset is what backs the loan they are providing, and I didn't feel like the survey really fulfilled the underwriting role from the *bank's* perspective, not just mine.
 
If you chuck a spear, expect one to be thrown back, perhaps with a grenade tied to it. I'm not sure when this site got to judging decision quality over decision guidance. but it's happening on all threads. Have a cocktail, and help someone out.
I'm going to work on the boat (or go for a ride, which ever happens first)
 
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