Rl80c

Discussion in 'Electronics Q&A' started by Russ Calasant, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. Russ Calasant

    Russ Calasant Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    Dec 9, 2009
    East Greenwich, RI
    2001 480 DB
    CAT 3196
    Has anyone experienced issues with the radar not “painting” targets on screen? It started doing this in the fall but would seem to warm up and start working. Now it does not seem to and only marks with the gain cranked up. Antenna or display? And the bigger question, replace? With what? Whole helm is antiquated raymarine. I use the autopilot often, radar occasionally and my iPad always. And depth of course is important.....what would you do?
     
  2. NotHerDecision

    NotHerDecision Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor GOLD Sponsor

    906
    Jun 28, 2016
    Houston, Texas
    2001 Sea Ray 460 Sundancer
    2014 Seadoo 155 LTD
    2105 Seadoo 130 SE
    2013 Mercury Dinghy
    Cummins 6CTA 8.3L
    Russ this just happened to me and I learned apparently the radar has 2 "arrays" Try zooming out beyond 6 miles and see if that works... If so and you have nothing close up then Raymarine told me it was "that" time.
     
    Russ Calasant likes this.
  3. Havana Shamrock

    Havana Shamrock Active Member

    Sep 9, 2008
    Long Island.
    2005 500DB
    QSM11's,
    Honda 30HP
    Russ, just a reminder I have a 4’ open array avail if needed.
    Just sayin.
     
  4. RollerCoastr

    RollerCoastr Well-Known Member

    Nov 15, 2007
    Cedar Point, OH / Miami, FL / MacRay Harbor, MI
    1997 400DA
    340HP 7.4 Mercruiser Bluewaters
    Garmin 8212, 741 24HD, Intellian I2
    1999 280BR
    Twin 250HP Merc 350 Alpha Ones
    I would upgrade. I'm addicted to electronics, but I've done well by buying close-outs or previous models just as new stuff is released.

    I consider the helm on the 480DB to be part of the social space - that's one of my favorite features of that boat. At the dock or underway, you can engage with people while sitting at the helm. That's a great justification for MFD's that link to the stereo and even TV feeds, not to mention to modern RADAR, your iPad etc.

    Things have come a LONG way since that RL stuff - I say do right by your boat and at least upgrade the RADAR and MFD's. (if your AP works well, I'd keep it)
     
    Krazzeeddie and Russ Calasant like this.
  5. dtfeld

    dtfeld Member

    31
    Jun 5, 2016
    Atlanta
    410 Sundancer 2001
    Cat 3126 V-Drives
    I am interested in the response to this question too.

    I just put an offer in a 2001 410 w/ the original Raymarine package...RL80C,RN300, ST7000 etc.

    RN300 is dead, so I’m going to have to do something immediately.

    Easiest would be to buy a used RN300 but seems to be a waste of time and money.

    I can get a used E120 that looks like it might fit the helm and get a little more modern...but not sure of compatibility with everything else in the system

    Beyond that, looking at a total refit. Would love to do 1 system at a time, start with the MFD and build out.
     
  6. NotHerDecision

    NotHerDecision Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor GOLD Sponsor

    906
    Jun 28, 2016
    Houston, Texas
    2001 Sea Ray 460 Sundancer
    2014 Seadoo 155 LTD
    2105 Seadoo 130 SE
    2013 Mercury Dinghy
    Cummins 6CTA 8.3L
    The rn300 is just a gps. All you need is another source for gps signal. Under 300 bucks to source
     
  7. dtfeld

    dtfeld Member

    31
    Jun 5, 2016
    Atlanta
    410 Sundancer 2001
    Cat 3126 V-Drives
    I was under the impression the RN300 is a GPS and a "plotter" and that it has an old external antenna. The antenna connects to the box via coax and the data goes out over Seatalk to the other units. The box itself is dead, not the GPS antenna, so without the RN300 box, I can't get the data out to other units.

    Do they make Sea-Talk GPS antenna?
     
  8. dtfeld

    dtfeld Member

    31
    Jun 5, 2016
    Atlanta
    410 Sundancer 2001
    Cat 3126 V-Drives
    Answered my own question. Can use a RayStar 150, but have to add a Seatalk1 to Seatalkng converter. Still $400 all in. I think I can then bypass the RN300 all together, but i've seen where the RN300 needs to be setup as a GPS repeater. I'll have to nail that down.


    I'm leaning toward Garmin. Can I buy a Garmin to replace the RL80C and get data out of it onto a seatalk network?

    Hey Google...
     
  9. ZZ13

    ZZ13 Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Nov 25, 2009
    Lady's Island, SC
    2001 400 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins 450 Diamond
    It is a primitive plotter and route manager. Its actually not to bad as a central place to display all your nav data such as SOG, COG, depth, seawater temp, etc. Although it is tough to read at times. I have two RN300 that work fine and two passive antennas that go with it. You can have one if you want. I'll be back home Wednesday and could ship it out to you end of this week.
     
  10. ZZ13

    ZZ13 Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Nov 25, 2009
    Lady's Island, SC
    2001 400 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins 450 Diamond
    I removed my RN300, and replaced my VHF with Standard Horizon GX2200 which has GPS built into it. Had planned to feed GPS to my RL80C over NMEA from the GX2200, but then I landed a Raystar125 for free. FYI, I use Navionics on an IPAD for charts and kept the RL80C for high level route viewing and backup charts and to display all the nav numbers in data boxes. Not saying this will work for you, but another option that's pretty inexpensive.
     
  11. ttmott

    ttmott Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 3, 2012
    Space Coast Florida
    2006 52 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins QSM11
    Not a chance..... The Garmin has propriety connectors and communications for the radar directly to the back of their MFD. Raymarine is the same.... The two shall never meet....
     
    dtfeld likes this.
  12. dtfeld

    dtfeld Member

    31
    Jun 5, 2016
    Atlanta
    410 Sundancer 2001
    Cat 3126 V-Drives
    If If the boat passes inspection, I'll take you up on that! Leaving tomorrow for the inspection sea trial. I'd love to get the system back to working order ASAP.

    My "backup plan" was to get a standalone GPS and use the iPad and use my Navionics as well.
     
  13. dtfeld

    dtfeld Member

    31
    Jun 5, 2016
    Atlanta
    410 Sundancer 2001
    Cat 3126 V-Drives
    I think the path regardless of Mfg, the MFD and Radar are going to have to be replaced together. Old Raymarine analog radars are not compatible with any modern Raymarine MFD either. Beyond that, the radio, autopilot and tridata could be integrated, but probably with a lot of hassles.

    Been reading some tech reports today, and looks like there are a number of good paths forward, but as usual its a matter of time and money.
     
  14. ZZ13

    ZZ13 Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Nov 25, 2009
    Lady's Island, SC
    2001 400 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins 450 Diamond
    There is no need to replace your course computer. It gets its data from the mfd via NMEA. I inherited the same factory setup as you and my course computer wasn't even connected to Seatalk. It has a point to point connection from the RL80C on NMEA0183.
     
  15. rondds

    rondds Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Oct 3, 2006
    Jersey Shore
    2001 380DA
    Merc 8.1s (2008)...Hurth ZF 63 V-drives...WB 7.0 BCGD (2013), Garmin 8208 & 740 MFDs, GMR 24xHD dome
    My RL80C just sort of stopped working in the Fall of 2016. I don't know if it was the display or the array but I knew from the day I bought this boat that it would need to be replaced at some point. Worked well for the 4 seasons I owned it but it was "that time."

    So, over the winter of 2016/17 I replaced the dispay with a Garmin 8208 and the open array with a Garmin 24x HD dome. I kept the Ray ST60 TriData in place as sort of a stand-alone depth sounder (b/c it won't talk to the Garmin at all). And that's fine b/c I like depth right in front of me anyway, not in a data box, off to the side on the display. I was able to connect the Ray ST7001 Autopilot to the new Garmin via NMEA0183. Also was able to connect the Ray220VHF to the Garmin by 0183. So everyone is playing nicely together.

    20170407_115356.jpg

    New faux wood panel courtesy Flounder Pounder. I installed the Garmin 740 three years ago to get engine data up at the helm. Now both units read from the engines...
    20170719_103018.jpg
    Old line-up still hanging in there and fully functional
    20170506_120650.jpg
     
  16. 370Dancer

    370Dancer Member

    650
    Oct 2, 2006
    Florida - Alabama
    1998 370 Sundancer
    380hp MAG MPI V drives
    I wouldn't go that far. Modern Garmin units use NMEA 2000 Device Net hardware, and Raymarine uses Seatalk (1) which is NMEA 183 in a proprietary connector, and newer (not the newest) units use Seatalk NG, which is NMEA2000 with proprietary connector hardware. I won't go into too much detail here, but rather will post a new thread about the modernization of my helm over the last couple of months. I am utilizing a NMEA 2000 backbone for my engine monitoring systems, which is then bridged to a Seatalk NG backbone (this is just a custom cable that I built). The Seatalk NG backbone has a quad tap, of which one is designed for a Seatalk (1) leg. The net result is I have twin ST70 MFDs that can display both NMEA 2k, ST-ng and Seatalk data. The RL80CRC is gathering info from a DSM-300 for depth, which can also be displayed on the ST70s, or on my other Seatalk displays (I have a ST80 Masterview display). The RL80CRC is also my radar. I have a Standard Horizon CP1000 for chartplotting tied into the S1-G autopilot, which is also talking on the Seatalk(1) leg to the 8001 controller, and hence the rest of the Seatalk displays. Basically just about any data anywhere, if it can handle it. My plan will be to replace the CP1000 with a Garmin unit, and tie it into the NMEA 2000 backbone side, or use a Device Net to ST-ng drop cable to the ST-ng backbone. It really won't matter. The big deal is to watch out who is supplying, using, or passing power.
     
    dtfeld likes this.
  17. ttmott

    ttmott Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 3, 2012
    Space Coast Florida
    2006 52 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins QSM11
    I thought we were discussing the Radar interface to a chartplotter/MFD which do not interface or work with with Seatalk, Seatalk2, Seatalkng, Seatalkhs, NMEA0183, or NMEA2000 data networks. Some of the newer scanners do have NMEA2000 interfaces however. Other instruments that have Seatalk, NMEA0183, or NMEA2000 interfaces are a different and more flexible story.....
    For the benefit of the OP:
    Seatalk / Seatalk1
    Raymarine Seatalk and Seatalk1 are the same - This is a slow speed data network (4.8kbs) where the single data wire can host simultaneous "talkers" and "listeners" (NMEA 0183 lingo) by utilizing Raymarine propriety data stream multiplexing management. Seatalk/Seatalk1 can be interfaced with a NMEA 0183 network by using a Raymarine E85001 interface module. Seatalk/Seatalk1 wires cannot be directly connected to NMEA 0183 wires and expect to be fully compatible; in fact the system will most likely crash.
    Seatalk2
    Seatalk2 is/was Raymarine's move towards a high speed duplex (can send and receive at the same time) data buss which is similar to NMEA2000 but does not have the language set to be fully compatible with the more diverse NMEA2000 protocol. Seatalk2 can be interfaced to Seatalk/Seatalk1 but that must occur through a Raymarine device that has both interfaces; Seatalk/Seatalk1 cannot be directly wired together with Seatalk2 and expect to work. Seatalk2 was eclipsed with Seatalkng
    Seatalkng
    Seatalkng is Raymarine's answer to NMEA2000 and from a data protocol is fully compatible. Seatalkng is plug and play and can be interfaced to any NMEA2000 device. The issue is, which is what I think the big downfall using Raymarine is their interface cabling and connectors are still propriety and not in line with the NMEA2000 standard; consequently, if one wants to interface with other NMEA2000 networks or devices they have to purchase connector adapters.
    Seatalkhs
    Seatalkhs is Raymarine's propriety Ethernet based high speed data exchange system. Seatalkhs can only be used between Seatalkhs instruments and components like the Raymarine DSM30/300 fishfinder, FLIR video driver, SR100 Sirius weather, and the E/C series MFD's. Seatalkhs use standard Ethernet connectors like those connected on your PC. The great thing about Seatalkhs is everything shares and exchanges that data equally and it's all plug and play. This is how multiple E and C series displays can simultaneously use and control a single radar scanner, fishfinder, etc.. To connect two Seatalkhs devices together a Seatalkhs "crossover coupler" is required. To connect more than two Seatalkhs devices together an Ethernet switch such as E55058 must be used; many are using standard network switches with success but keep in mind these home/office switches do not have conformal coated electronic components / boards and their lifespan in marine use will be very limited; I wouldn't bet my navigational "farm" on a few dollars cost difference between the Raymarine and commercial switches...... The limitation is if there are two or more MFD's then one of the group must be designated as the "Master" and the radar scanner must be connected to the Master. If the Master should fail the radar scanner must be then connected to one of the remaining good MFD's and then that MFD must be designated as the "Master".
    NMEA0183
    This is the first real standardized data exchange and protocol technology. The basic architecture is only one "Talker" can be on a network with up to three "Listeners" on that network. If an instrument is both a "Talker" and "Listener" like a E120 MFD or Raypilot then two data networks are required (one copper path for talking and one copper path for listening); it can quickly get complicated and confusing. A talker could be a GPS NMEA0183 antenna or a Smart NMEA0183 DT800 transducer and these "Talkers" would be wired as talkers then the listener circuits of things like the E120 or Raypilot or VHF tie in as listeners; different wires are needed for each talker unless a multiplexer is used. Multiplexers like Raymarine E55059 and Actisense NDC-4 schedule the data on the NMEA0183 wiring so the Talkers are not talking at the same time thus confusing the listener. This network is slow, very slow, at 4800 baud and not compatible with the higher data rate transmitters like a radar scanner. There are certain upgrades that are propriety Raymarine that increase the baud rate to 38400 for their AIS (as a note, the Actisense NDC-4 has the capability to multiplex the AIS required 38400 baud).
    NMEA2000
    NMEA2000 is a hardware and software protocol in which data is transmitted and received through a single wired backbone, is high speed (250Kbs), and very simple to install and use. NMEA2000 is plug and play. The NMEA2000 data buss is the same as the widely used CAN (Controller Area Network) typically used for over-the-road vehicles and industrial controls. The NEMA2000 cabling (backbone) is powered which enables low current demand instruments to also be powered through the single connected interface. NMEA has established a data convention for the NMEA2000 technology that is standard across most manufacturers and that convention continues to expand; these are called PGN's. The NMEA2000 backbone can be installed in several configurations and is very flexible provided some basic rules are followed. Most all of the marine electronic manufacturers are now basing their systems on NMEA2000 however Raymarine and Simrad continues to be unique from a interconnection aspect (they do not use the NEMA2000 standard DeviceNet Micro-C five pin connectors) and in my opinion drives many to Garmin and others.

    Radar Scanners
    Up until very recently all radar scanners have propriety wiring and data protocol and must be directly interfaced to the radar displaying/controlling instrument like Raymarines E/C MFD's as well as all earlier models. Radar prior to the mid 2000's required a dedicated radar controller and display with secondary functions as chartplotters through separate plotting devices. Today all are integrated and now consequently referred to as Multi-Functional Devices (MFD).
    370Dancer - I'd like to understand how you have adapted your scanner to one of the above data protocols as the OP desires.....
    Tom
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  18. 370Dancer

    370Dancer Member

    650
    Oct 2, 2006
    Florida - Alabama
    1998 370 Sundancer
    380hp MAG MPI V drives
    I apparently went off topic. Sorry about that. I was reacting to the part that I originally quoted about Garmin and Ray incompatibilities. Scanners, as you say are completely proprietary, save perhaps some very late models, where the radar data is treated as just another sensor on the bus, contributing to your overall situational awareness.
    In my setup, the RL80RC remains the sole display of my older 4K dome scanner. Where and how I boat, is serves more as a large screen depth plotter. Standing down.
     
  19. dtfeld

    dtfeld Member

    31
    Jun 5, 2016
    Atlanta
    410 Sundancer 2001
    Cat 3126 V-Drives
    Good stuff!!
     
  20. rondds

    rondds Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Oct 3, 2006
    Jersey Shore
    2001 380DA
    Merc 8.1s (2008)...Hurth ZF 63 V-drives...WB 7.0 BCGD (2013), Garmin 8208 & 740 MFDs, GMR 24xHD dome
    Radar (at least with Garmin) is NOT NMEA2k. It's a specialized plug that runs from the scanner directly to the back of the unit. And that cable is not NMEA2k cable and does not utilize NMEA2k connectors.

    I believe each manufacturer has their own special plug for Radar, which does not allow you to mix and match manufacturers. As far as Ray stuff, I was able to connect my Ray AP and VHF via NMEA0183, but not the TriData. That is purely SeaTalk. Someone said above that SeaTalk is really just NMEA0183 with a fancy Ray plug. If that's true maybe I could cut the plug off and splice wires to get the TriData stuff onto the Garmin (??)

    My Garmin radar is pretty much the latest technology, sanz the function that tracks a moving target by showing it in red.
     

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