Replacing Dripless Shaft Seals in the Water

[Hampton]

Tides Marine SureSeal Shaft Seal - Lip Seal Change - Stolen from their You-Tube Demo clip which I stole from another thread on this forum. Print this out and put it on your boat.

This should only allow a couple of gallons of water in at most.

1) Ensure shaft is clean between the new seal’s carrier kit and the sure seal, then remove the screws to the new seal’s carrier kit.
2) Remove the five cap screws from the base of the old seal.
3) Slide the cap forward over the replacement seal.
4) Separate the split retaining washer and remove it from the shaft
5) Pry out the old lip seal with a screwdriver working around opposite sides and then cut the old seal off of the shaft.
6) Carefully slide the new lip seal into the opening.
7) Return the split retaining washer to the shaft FORWARD of the new seal.
8) Fit the split retaining washer into the recess in the cap and then slide the pair aft until they touch the lip seal.
9) Align the holes and start the five screws back in.
10) Alternately tighten them to press the lip seal into the opening. They are seated when the cap touches the housing.

 

[fwebster]

I urge anyone to be very cautious with this repair in the water.

Even on larger boats, access to the lip seal face is very limited. There is almost no room to drive the new seal into place on a v-drive. You have to pick out the old seal and cut it in order to put the new one in, while standing on your head working up under the engine and transmission. Once you have cut the old seal, you have to (HAVE TO!) finish the job, there is no come back and try again tomorrow. Even if the upper screws require an off-set wrench or screw driver and you only get 5 degrees of rotation at a time, you have to finish the job once you remove the old seal.

The real problem here is that just replacing the lip seal is usually only a short term fix because what causes the seal to leak in the first place is that the Delrin seal body (the part up in the blue rubber hose) gets worn and allows the lip seal to wobble on the shaft. Replacing the seal as outlined in John's post only replaces the lip seal; it does not fix the real problem, and that cannot be done without partially removing the shaft.

Good luck if you decide to try it..............

 

[Kreole Kid]

John, are you having these troubles already?

My Starboard side came loose over the summer and wouldn't you know it, it happened when I had 4 couples on the boat heading out to one of the stops at a poker run:wow:. The bilge pump was able to keep up so we continued out, and when I anchored at the meeting spot, I was able to put a bandaid on it for the day. After really investigating the problem further, there were 2 set screws missing and the 2 remaining were really loose as well.

 

[Hampton]

No, but I did have my seals replaced under warranty last week. After watching the video, it came to me that the video wouldn't do me any good if I needed it, so, I took dictation, transcribed the process, copied it here, and sent myself an e-mail for future reference. Frank's cautions are extremely important, but, if you are stuck and have run out of options, it may be the solution. Or, if you are somewhere safe but want to possibly save hassles and costs, it may help.

 

[fwebster]

Since we do have several regular inboard guys here, it occurred to me that I might not have included enough of a qualifier in my post above . My cautions are certainly valid for v-drive boats. On my 450DA I switched seals one time and will never spend that agonizing day again, but on larger boats, you might have room. Similiarly, if you have straight inboards where your seal assembly is not located under but is behind your transmission/engine, you may also have room. Every boat is different, so get your tools and go look at your seal and see what you think before you assume you can tackle this one.

 

[barlow]

Seasons greetings

Frank, do these seals deteriorate gradually ie start leaking, or do you have a regular replacement interval in your maintanence programme?

 

[Hampton]

Beauty of Straight Drives:

 

[fwebster]

Ok, but how are you going to get your wrench, screw driver, pliers, and hammer between the seal body and the coupler? Its never as easy as those videos shot on a test stand..............

 

[Jimmy Buoy]

I replaced my port seal while in the water. There wasn't much water flowing even once the old seal was removed. Of course, the new seal was already on the shaft and its protective plastic cover had been removed. Once the old seal was pryed out, it was cut off with side cutters, removed from the shaft and the new seal was carefully eased into the housing as far as my thumbs could push. At that point, the water stopped flowing even without completing the installation.

All that being said, my boat is straight drives. Not sure if I'd want to tackle it on my previous boat's V-Drive setup. I couldn't even see the shaft seals on that one - but I could feel them (with one hand only).

 

[fwebster]

Steve,

The tides seal has a Delrin seal body that runs on the shaft. The lip seal is placed in the end of the Delrin body. The only 2 parts of the Tides seal that can wear are the Delrin body and the lip seal. If the lip seal wears; you get a leak. If the Delrin seal body wears, the lip seal wobbles and will soon wear out and then it will leak. As long as the water you run in and that cools the seal is free from sediment and sand, the seal can last a long time. We just saw some original seals changed here on a 1997 EB. Most Sea Ray owners here, however get a very short life out of Tides seals, There are 2 primary reasons........people anchor with their stern too close to the beach and the water under our boats in their slips is very shallow. Either situation stirs up sand and sediment with is then ingested into in the cooling circuit and the sand then ends up between the shaft and the Delrin seal body which causes wear.

Typically, a leaking seal begins with a few drops a minute leaking from the lip seal. That progresses to a steady stream that will eventually stop after the boat sits a few hours. The next stage is a leak that never stops. The time from when you first notice a few drops to the point where the leak is uncontrollable is about 12 months @ a 100 hr per year use rate. Since I haul out every winter to check the bottom and do whatever is needed, I am never more than 12 months from a haul out. About 1/2 the labor cost of a seal replacement is the haulout. For that reason, I don't change seals preemptively or on a regular schedule, but choose to wait for my next haulout, whenever that happens to occur.

 

[Edwin G Littke]

Hi
I am dealing with a 1996 450 Sundancer with a shaft seal that is streaming water while underway. Likely the original with two more spares on the shaft. Bilge pump cycle on about every 20 minutes running at 16 knots. No drip sitting at the dock. I have a 4 hour trip to my haul out marina and would prefer to change while on land. Looking for advice if thats ok? To fun a few more hours while streaming?

 

[fwebster]

The problem with running a leaky shaft seal indefinitely on a 450DA is that there is a glassed in sump under each engine. If you are leaking enough seawater that the bilge pump cycles on, then you are filling and overflowing the sump under the engine which can cause some long term problems with corrosion where you don't need it.

I have a 1500 gal automatic bilge pump mounted to a scrap piece of fiberglass that connects to 12vdc with alligator clips. When I get a seal that starts leaking, I put the portable pump in the sump under the engine. It pumps the water that leaks from the seal into the bilge pump sump area between the engines. The built in float switch starts the portable pump when there is about 2" of water in the sump so I never get anything wet that needs to stay dry.

Post # 10 explains the Tides construction and why just replacing the lip seal probably isn't a long term solution. Since you can usually pay a mechnic less money to replace the entire seal housing than to replace the lip seal only, your only added cost is the difference between the entire kit and the lip seal or about $375. I am in Florida on the Gulf coast and we do wear out a lot of seals due to ingesting sand from shallow water. If I am hauling the boat out anyway, and need to replace a seal, I always replace the entire housing kit. You don't give us a location, so I can't advise you other than to tell you the Tides seals have changed since your boat was built....the housing is more robust and is now glass-filled and the seals now have cross over cooling, so you get more than new parts.

 

[ttmott]

The older Tides assemblies had a simple hose-like rubber tube between the seal holder and shaft log in the hull; that hose was rather stiff and if there was any wobble in the shaft or the hose was not aligned correctly the bearing in the seal holder would wear then the lip seal would leak profusely when the shaft turns. The newer Tides assemblies have a bellows style hose between the hull and seal holder and are a much better leak free solution. Changing the seal in the water is normal provided you have a spare seal already on the shaft. Changing the seal without a spare on the shaft or changing the entire Tides assembly requires the boat to be hauled.

 

[Edwin G Littke]

Right, thanks, I will deal with it over the winter. This is the older type. We are in Cape Cod Bay. Pretty clear water. I have pumps under the engine near the seal that pumps to the rear main pumps. The leaking that occurs underway cycles the pump on about every 20-30 minutes. Since my trip to the haul out marina is about 3 hours, I am hoping to make the trip with only the same amount of water coming in. But am wondering if these ever have some catastrophic failure? Is it safe to make the trip? Since the dripping stops when the engine is off. Gives an idea of how badly worn it is?

 

[fwebster]

I only know of 1-2 catestrophic failures on a Tides style shaft seal. Both of those were caused by blocked cooling lines when in turn caused the Delrin seal housing to melt.

Since your boat is leaking seawater thru the housing when underway, I don't think you have any worries about a catestrophic failure.