Reg Sunbrella vs Seamark

LMBoat

LMBoat

Well-Known Member
Oct 4, 2006
751
Ft Lauderdale
Boat Info
1999 450 EB
Engines
Cummins 6CTA's
Hello All,

I just had my canvas redone. I had a local guy do it as Great Lakes doesn't make mine any longer. Based on comments here, my own observations, and the canvas guy, I used reg Sunbrella vs Seamark <Sunbrella with the vinal coating on the inside>. The Seamark product did keep the water out, but as it was cracking/failing. This was the main reason I did not select it again.

My new canvas leaks bady through the material during moderate to heavy rain. I have treated it with 303, but it did not help. I'm going to try a second coat, but I'm bummed about my new top. We had a bad rain storm over the weekend. I might as well have just left the canvas off. Everything was soaked. The old Seamark DID keep the rain out all the time. I called Sunbrella and they were no help: "Sir, the product is only water resistant, not waterproof? Did I make the wrong decision regarding Seamark, or does anyone have any more tips?? Thanks for the commets.
 
If the water "pools" then it will seep through. Maybe it needs to be stretched tighter?

Also, give it some time. Sometimes this stuff needs a little bit of time to "break-in". Give it a few cycles of "getting wet, then drying". You can quicken this process by using a hose, rather than waiting for rain.
 
Did you use regular 303 (blue label) or the waterproofing 303 (green label)?

I seem to recall reading that new Sunbrella will leak for a while, but will pretty much come to a stop once a little dirt embeds itself into the fabric and starts plugging up some of the pores. Mine keeps us 95% dry. There are a few seams, and some spots around the edges that leak a little. No big deal. I count on getting a little wet every time I head out to the marina...

Michael
 
Last edited:
I've noticed "sweat" on the inside of the aft curtains during heavy rain but never enough to drip. The vinyl backed bimini's never leak.
 
Water does not pool on the canvas. It is tight. I used 303 watarproofing.....and in regards to "once is gets a little dirty it will get better", this seems to be contrary to the directions on the 303 waterproofing bottle that says to wash if first.

Yes, Seamark never leaked <until it needed to be replaced>
 
Hi Larry:

Did you make a mistake? Who knows!

I suppose it depends on the price consideration you made. I've had them all. You probably have 8.3 Oz Sunbrella vs. the more expensive 12 Oz material. The shops will Sub the thin stuff to hit the price point the buyer is seeking and after all it's Sunbrella right? Not so. The thin light weight material is not sturdy enough for the SoFla sun and rain and chemical attacks from power plant pollution.

But, you've got it and now have to make the best of it, so from my experience here is the Rx for what I'd do if I were in your shoes after making sure I was delivered what I was promised in materials and construction.

#1 The goal is to seal those thread punctures across the top. In the sunlight they probably show holes cleanly. Take clear silicone caulking with the tip cut very small and use it as a seam sealer. Carefully mask these seams to allow a fine 1/16th in bead over the thread line. Tool this bead into the thread holes with a paper towel or dull plastic tool and remove any surface lumps, we do not want any sealer sitting up proud to be a dirt catcher. You can use a water wet sponge to gently wipe this seam smooth before taking off the tape. To make a neat job of this will take some patience. This seam sealing should last several years before requiring a second hit.

# 2 Buy a gallon of Starbrite Canvas Silicone Wterproofer treatment. Using a small foam paint roller coat the top liberally with this water thin solution, you want to soak it evenly. Allow to dry over night and then recoat again in the same manner. Two coats should do it. If you have any product left, hit those seams across the bows and along the zippers and fabric again.

This will water proof your canvas for about a year. There after clean the canvas and reapply the Starbrite Silicone annually. But you'll know when you need to do it again. :wow:

Now some comments:

I like you live in Lauderdale and find canvas reaches its useful servicable life in about 4 years and the 5th year is a continous run of repairs.

The harsh UV rays eat up canvas and vinyl coverings.

I've had Sea Mark by Sunbrella and it was not the answer. I'd installed it vinyl down and fabric to the weather. It was prone to mildew on the vinyl side and thread punctures were leakers until I sealed them The fabric was dry and tough, but became unsightly requiring frequent clorox baths, which of course causes early failure as well.

I've had 12 Oz regular Sunbrella and it was a solid performer, but heavy and required seam sealing and silicone waterproofing after a year the Starbrite Silicone waterproofer, but the canvas looked great to its dying day. The seams were leakers until I devised the sealer method.

My current canvas is Stamoid vintage 1995 and it is just about shot and the color layer is failing and giving me a blotchy look, the eisenglas is failing and gone cloudy. The material has failed to hold snaps requiring a new cockpit cover skirt to hold new snaps.

I've replaced windscreen glass, , replaced a few RiRi Zips and I'm now at a point of not seeing any sense in any further repairs as the vinyl is failing in appearance. With all this said, the vinyl Stamoid has given me 4 years of solid performance and weather two hurricaines. It is water proof to this day and while looking a little tired and used, is still servicable. I'll limp through the summer and buy a new set in the fall when lofts prices moderate. I'll go back to Stamoid, but will use the newer heavier product that has a double layer of vinyl to protect the color layer better.

My one significant complaint about Stamiod is that it perpetually outgasses a plastic odor which is noticeable when stored below decks.

A second consideration is that I've never had a seam failure these past 4 years as I'd spec'd the use of Gore Tex Thread, that stuff really takes the weather and conditions.

Write me here if you want to talk more about it and we can hook up by phone.
 
I don't believe that what I read was taking about that "kind" of dirt, at least not the kind you can see on the surface. What it was talking about was the impurities in rain water will soak into the threads and fill in the gaps between the fibers.

Just be patient. Between getting wet and drying in the sun, the 303, and the "dirt" in the rain water sealing it up, the leaking will get to an acceptable level.

One other thing, when you treated it, did you just spray the 303 on or did you rub it into the fabric? I seem to get much better results if I spray the canvas with the 303 (I get it pretty wet) and then rub it around with my hand.
 
Last edited:
LM, give it some time. It will get better.

Then, if you still need to, follow the advice above. Nicely written, Chad.
 
I have been told the thread used will make a difference. Apparently cotton thread swells and fills the needle holes immediately. Synthetic thread doesn't change dimension so it takes a while for the needle holes to fill with "dirt" and stop the leaking. The tradeoff here is that the synth stuff hold up much better to the effects of UV light.

My friend had a problem similar to yours on his 99 330DA. He replaced his original canvas with a custom canvas from Gioia last spring. It leaked enough for him to call Gioia and inquire. They told him it would stop and it did. He did not go with the Seamark stuff but I don't know what gauge of Sunbrella was used - it does have a sort of "felt" feel on the inside. I have never heard of Sunbrella (regardless of the weight) leaking like a sieve. I have a feeling things will settle down and your canvas will be watertight in a few weeks.
 
Last edited:
Guys,

Great info, thanks to all.

Chad, you like the Starbright waterproofing? I've seen it, and it is signficantly less expensive the 303 waterproofing, but have not bought it because Sunbrella recommends 303. Your experience with Sea Mark mirrors mine, and are the reasons I did not choose it again.

I'm not leaking at the seams, it is through the material itself.

I have not heard of different weights of Sunbrella. I need to check that.

Thanks
Larry
 
Sunbrella is woven acrylic and Sunbrella may not like the use of solvent son their acrylic. If you have a warrnatee on the fabric i'd go with their requirement.

If you are using typical 303, it is an acrylic polymer solution that can form a water barrier if used profusely enough, but I don't know. I'd have to experience the use in this way to have an opinion.
 
LM,

You said that Great Lakes does not have your original canvas, I just replaced all my canvas from Great Lakes after there discounts it came to about $1700 this is including even all new hatch covers. Our boats are the same, I don't understand way they said they do not have the patern anymore. They did a fantastic job too, with all the rubber seals and they do silicone all the edges near stitching too, sorry about your experience, but for the price I paid (or for any price) I got a perfect fitting and water tight top
 
Where was your boat built? SR built this boat in 2 different plants. Mine was built in Palm Coast FL. Great Lakes says they have had too many fit complaints for 95' 330DA's built in Palm Coast. They will make a top for me, but no guarantees about the fit and it will not be returnable. I have talked with them several times and got the same answers. If anyone has different info, please let me know.
 
I believe mine was built in Tennesee. What could be different, maybe the Stainless frame?? I doubt that the windshield or the arch is in a different place. Does yours have snaps for the windshield or is it the rubber with the track?
 
I may be wrong,but I think 95's had two different arches,the early ones arched back,the laters forward.
I just purchased new canvass from Great Lakes ,but have not installed it yet.I went with standard Sunbrella as my color is no longer availible in Seamark.(standard would had been my choice anyway).As mentioned, dealing with the mold and mildew was a PIA.
My last boat had standard Sunbrella and was still water tight after 10 years with no mold and mildew issues ever.I also found rubbing a white candle on the seams helped seal them,as the sun melted it into the threads.
 
Last edited:
'94 had the radar arch aft, 95's had it tilted forward. Mine has the rubber track

As for why, I was told too many inconsistances. Not ones that you would ever notice, unless you were trying to make canvas fit. I asked for another quote this week just to be be sure. Here's what I got from Great Lakes today:

Thank you for your interest in Great Lakes Boat Top original replacement canvas. We are sorry, but unfortunately, the items you have requested for your 1995 Sea Ray 330 Sundancer are not available because we no longer have the pattern(s). You could contact a local custom canvas shop to perhaps make the needed canvas for you.
 
LMBoat said:
'94 had the radar arch aft, 95's had it tilted forward. Mine has the rubber track

As for why, I was told too many inconsistances. Not ones that you would ever notice, unless you were trying to make canvas fit. I asked for another quote this week just to be be sure. Here's what I got from Great Lakes today:

Thank you for your interest in Great Lakes Boat Top original replacement canvas. We are sorry, but unfortunately, the items you have requested for your 1995 Sea Ray 330 Sundancer are not available because we no longer have the pattern(s). You could contact a local custom canvas shop to perhaps make the needed canvas for you.
Click to expand...

Did you check SeaRays part numbers from 95 to 96?
 
I suppose it depends on the price consideration you made. I've had them all. You probably have 8.3 Oz Sunbrella vs. the more expensive 12 Oz material. The shops will Sub the thin stuff to hit the price point the buyer is seeking and after all it's Sunbrella right? Not so. The thin light weight material is not sturdy enough for the SoFla sun and rain and chemical attacks from power plant pollution.

+1.

I berth near a sand and gravel pit and a few miles from a chemical plant. My 2 year old lightweight sunbrella aft enclosure (came with the boat) is terribly discolored. Washing everything twice according to the instructions on Sunbrella's website did little to cure the discoloration problem. It is nothing I can't live with as it all comes down when the boat goes out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
113,120
Messages
1,426,612
Members
61,037
Latest member
wojozobl
Back
Top