Raymarine - SeaTalk and NMEA0183 wiring

hynespa

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2010
314
Marina Del Rey, CA
Boat Info
2005 420 Sundancer
Engines
T-VD-8.1 S HO MerCruiser (T-420 hp)
I know from reading this forum there are many opinions about Raymarine electronics vs Garmin / Furuno / etc.

I inherited the (recently upgraded) Raymarine electronics from the previous owner in May when I purchased my 420 Sundancer. My issue was with the MFD and autopilot not talking to each other. The PO gave me the contact information of the local installer who upgraded the MFD and Radar the previous year. That installed came out on the boat, and let me know that the MFD and Autopilot were incapable of talking to each other via Seatalk, and that I would have to upgrade the Autopilot if I wanted them to be integrated.

I then decided to register and join the Raymarine forum. I was actually highly impressed after reading the thoroughness of how Raymarine (particularly Chuck from Raymarine) responded in detail to each and every forum post. I decided to photograph and trace myself (but not disturb) how all the Seatalk and NMEA wiring had been hooked up by the installer (including the installer trying to make their own SeaTalk cables by splicing tables together with electrical tape).

I posted a very detailed query, with supporting photographs to Raymarine and Chuck responded the next day with very detailed instructions of where the installer went wrong with the installation, and how the cabling would have to be fixed. Having lost faith in the installer, I proceeded to redo the SeaTalk and NMEA cabling myself of the course of a couple weekend days. I was thrilled that Chuck's guidance worked - and my Autopilot was now talking to my MFD via SeaTalk!! This gives me the ability to control the autopilot from the MFD which is what I really wanted to do. I was also glad I didn't have to shell out $$$$ for an autopilot upgrade.

Attached are two network diagrams I made as a result of Raymarine's detailed response. The first shows the SeaTalk1 / SeaTalkng wiring between components (including the model number of each Raymarine cable / junction) and the second diagram is the NMEA0183 rewiring (using a Blue Sea Systems style wiring block).

I encourage anybody with Raymarine networking issues to register and post to the Raymarine forum. I am not passing judgement one way or another on the quality / capabilities of their electronics - however I would give an A+ to their customer support on their forum.

It would be interesting to hear from other Club Searayers whether Garmin and Furuno have customer forums where company tech support responds to customer postings and questions with highly detailed (and accurate) responses.

SeaTalk wiring diagram.jpg


NMEA0183 Wiring Diagram.jpg
 
That's awesome! Unfortunately, incompetent/lazy installers are anything but rare. A friend of mine took delivery of a brand-new, custom ordered boat with Garmin Nav/VHF and a Fusion stereo. None of them were attached to each other. If they hadn't kept the NM2K parts that were included in the boxes, I could've increased functionality and safety 10-fold in a matter of minutes.

I scored this summer just from forum advice. My latest Garmin freaked-out my 0183 network so badly that I couldn't let the devices talk to each other at all. It wasn't great before, but it became useless. Some random guy online suggested that I look for a duplicate heading sentence being sent from the MFD. That was it. Not only do my new Garmins talk to my ancient AP, but the AP works better now than it did the day it was installed.

I know next to nothing about SeaTalk. Do you not have an NMEA2000 network, or does SeaTalk travel over it?
 
That's awesome! Unfortunately, incompetent/lazy installers are anything but rare. A friend of mine took delivery of a brand-new, custom ordered boat with Garmin Nav/VHF and a Fusion stereo. None of them were attached to each other. If they hadn't kept the NM2K parts that were included in the boxes, I could've increased functionality and safety 10-fold in a matter of minutes.

I scored this summer just from forum advice. My latest Garmin freaked-out my 0183 network so badly that I couldn't let the devices talk to each other at all. It wasn't great before, but it became useless. Some random guy online suggested that I look for a duplicate heading sentence being sent from the MFD. That was it. Not only do my new Garmins talk to my ancient AP, but the AP works better now than it did the day it was installed.

I know next to nothing about SeaTalk. Do you not have an NMEA2000 network, or does SeaTalk travel over it?

Hey @RollerCoastr - Thanks for your response. It was so disappointing to see the installers work behind the panels. Before I went through this I was going to hire the installer back to add a AutoPilot remote and Mercury CanBus\NMEA 2000 engine monitor gateway, but now I am just going to DIY it - as I know I will do a more thorough job!

Seatalk (Seatalk1 / SeaTalkNG) is Raymarine’s implementation of NMEA2000. For example in the diagram the spur cables going to my Fusion stereo and Fusion remote are SeaTalkNG on one end and NMEA2000 on the other end.
 
hynespa - Seatalk1 is the same technology as the original Seatalk which is duplex data network and a predecessor to NMEA 2000 but more advanced than NMEA0183. SeatalkNG is Raymarine's NMEA 2000 network albeit in true form all propriety Raymarine wire and terminals. Raymarine has Seatalk1 to SeatalkNG converters so select (read that as limited) data can be exchanged.
 
hynespa - Seatalk1 is the same technology as the original Seatalk which is duplex data network and a predecessor to NMEA 2000 but more advanced than NMEA0183. SeatalkNG is Raymarine's NMEA 2000 network albeit in true form all propriety Raymarine wire and terminals. Raymarine has Seatalk1 to SeatalkNG converters so select (read that as limited) data can be exchanged.
Thanks @ttmott - in fact the installer had tried to make his own
Seatalk1 to SeatalkNG converter cable by electric taping together a Seatalk1 and a SeatalkNG cable ...
 
Thanks @ttmott - in fact the installer had tried to make his own
Seatalk1 to SeatalkNG converter cable by electric taping together a Seatalk1 and a SeatalkNG cable ...
Hack Job - the two are not compatible.
And, FYI if you utilize the NMEA 2000 (SeatalkNG) feature of your MFD, the MFD will disable the Seatalk/Seatalk1 ports; at least that is what Raymarine states, I haven't verified that.
I kneel and pray to Jobu each time I use my system hoping it will get me through to next spring when it will all be replaced.
 
I am attaching an updated SeaTalk (SeaTalk1 / SeaTalkNG / NMEA2000) diagram showing the next two items I will be installing:

1) Raymarine E15023 Autopilot SmartController ($425 via price match @ West Marine) (#8M0105243) - This will enable me to change the heading of the boat when I am away from the helm. Chuck @Raymarine recommended I plug the base station into the SeaTalk1 D244 junction so that I could still use the remote to monitor heading / speed / depth even when the autopilot was not engaged.

2) Mercury SmartCraft NMEA 2000 Gateway ($325 eBay)- This will allow me to see all my engine data (fuel / RPM / temp / etc) on my Raymarine MFD. I realized the existing SmartCraft junction box:Screen Shot 2018-10-20 at 2.55.57 PM.png did not have an open port for the gateway to connect. I had to upgrade ($65 eBay) to a six way junction box (#878492T16). I plan to swap out the old 4 port junction box with this 6 port junction and cap the unused port. I also had to purchase ($16 eBay) a Raymarine NMEA 2000 to SeaTalkNG converter cable (A06045) to make the connection into my SeaTalkNG backbone.

Updated diagram:
Screen Shot 2018-10-20 at 2.49.55 PM.png


Will hopefully post pics of the functioning additions when installed!
 
Nice Work!

I did an MFD upgrade earlier and have utilized the Raymarine Forum (Chuck) on several occasions. So far I'm very happy with the results. It takes some time and effort to sort this stuff out, buy with a little help from Raymarine and CSR, most of this stuff is DIY capable.
 
UPDATE on NMEA2000 gateway Install

This weekend I was able to install the Mercury NMEA 2000 gateway:

1) Screen Shot 2018-10-29 at 7.07.24 PM.png Screen Shot 2018-10-29 at 7.03.58 PM.png - I swapped out the old 4 port Mercury SmartCraft Gateway with a 6 port one I purchased on eBay. It worked perfectly. Since the new one is longer, I had to drill a second screw hole to hold it in place. I have the old 4 port one for sale if anybody wants to DM me.

2) Screen Shot 2018-10-29 at 7.08.34 PM.png - I connected in the gateway (note this pic is pre zip tie and screw in). One half plugs into the above SmartCraft Gateway and the other half plugs into the SeaTalkNG backbone (via the A06045 Raymarine NMEA 2000 to SeaTalkNG converter cable). Both sides immediately lit up meaning there was connectivity to both the CanBus as well as the NMEA2000 network.

3) Screen Shot 2018-10-29 at 7.12.38 PM.png - The Raymarine MFD also detected the gateway and listed it as "Gateway CAN-P Multi".

The Raymarine Lighthouse instructions say to run the "Engine Identification Wizard". This didn't work for me (it said no engine detected), but none the less when I created the data page it displayed my RPMs etc just fine. I did have to lay with it a bit to get it to display my fuel level in each tank. It detected the Port fuel tank just fine as "Tank 1", but then when I went to add in the Starboard fuel tank it showed no data. It turned out that my Starboard fuel tank was being reported by the Mercury gateway as "Tank 3", so I had to pretend in the setup that I had 3 fuel tanks. I need to spend more time setting up all my data pages - that will be a chore for another weekend!
 
This is a great thread! I wish I had seen this sooner as I spent the past few weeks figuring out how to get my Garmin chartplotter to communicate with my old Raymarine AP and tridata. I finally came to the same conclusion. I did ask Raymarine support about how the AP will communicate with the Garmin through 0183, and he told me not to be surprised if it didn't work due to the difference in age between the two systems. From this thread it seems they will be able to talk to each other.
 
This is a great thread! I wish I had seen this sooner as I spent the past few weeks figuring out how to get my Garmin chartplotter to communicate with my old Raymarine AP and tridata. I finally came to the same conclusion. I did ask Raymarine support about how the AP will communicate with the Garmin through 0183, and he told me not to be surprised if it didn't work due to the difference in age between the two systems. From this thread it seems they will be able to talk to each other.

Be careful. Assuming they will communicate just because they both have NMEA0183 isn’t always true. My old Raymarone 435c and my old Raymarine 215 VHF communicated fine that way. But when I upgraded the VHF to a newer one, I found out it required a certain (newer) revision of the NMEA0183 command set/protocol than the old 435c put out. So the VHF couldn’t get the GPS coordinates from the plotter. Lesson learned. Not all 0183’s are equal! Verify that they can communicate before assuming they do.
 
This is the data network for my 52DB which has a mix of all including SAE J1939. The only weakness is the use of Seatalk1 connected to the course computer (the ST8002) it should be connected to a Seatalk to SeatalkNG converter and integrated into the NMEA2000/NG backbone. FYI - Blue is the NMEA 2000 backbone and red is the latest mod to replace the Sea Ray Systems Monitor.
52DB Data Network Systems Monitor.jpg
 
I am attaching an updated SeaTalk (SeaTalk1 / SeaTalkNG / NMEA2000) diagram showing the next two items I will be installing:

1) Raymarine E15023 Autopilot SmartController ($425 via price match @ West Marine) (#8M0105243) - This will enable me to change the heading of the boat when I am away from the helm. Chuck @Raymarine recommended I plug the base station into the SeaTalk1 D244 junction so that I could still use the remote to monitor heading / speed / depth even when the autopilot was not engaged.

2) Mercury SmartCraft NMEA 2000 Gateway ($325 eBay)- This will allow me to see all my engine data (fuel / RPM / temp / etc) on my Raymarine MFD. I realized the existing SmartCraft junction box:View attachment 61308 did not have an open port for the gateway to connect. I had to upgrade ($65 eBay) to a six way junction box (#878492T16). I plan to swap out the old 4 port junction box with this 6 port junction and cap the unused port. I also had to purchase ($16 eBay) a Raymarine NMEA 2000 to SeaTalkNG converter cable (A06045) to make the connection into my SeaTalkNG backbone.

Updated diagram:
View attachment 61307

Will hopefully post pics of the functioning additions when installed!

Thanks for taking the time to post a great report on your electronics upgrade. One quick question, did you need to purchase a Mercury 84-892323T01 Harness-Adaptor to support both engines? I have two new Axiom 12s on my 2008 47 Sedan Bridge and would like to integrate the engine data from both Cummins QSCs into the MFDs. I have (2) separate 6 port junction boxes. I already installed two (5) port SeaTalkNG backbone as well as a (5) port SeaTalkHS Network Switch and have the VHF, Radar, FLIR Camera, GPS, Fish-finder and Fusion networked to the Axioms. My last project is to get the engine data integrated with the Axioms.


IMG_2743.jpeg
 
Last edited:
This is the data network for my 52DB which has a mix of all including SAE J1939. The only weakness is the use of Seatalk1 connected to the course computer (the ST8002) it should be connected to a Seatalk to SeatalkNG converter and integrated into the NMEA2000/NG backbone. FYI - Blue is the NMEA 2000 backbone and red is the latest mod to replace the Sea Ray Systems Monitor.
View attachment 64299

This is brilliant! Thanks! I'm boat shopping any many of the boats in my sights have original (old) Raymarine radars, radios, GPS' and auto pilots. I've been wondering how to manage a methodical, piecemeal update (vs. writing a BIG check for a complete change). This diagram is really helpful!
 
Thanks for taking the time to post a great report on your electronics upgrade. One quick question, did you need to purchase a Mercury 84-892323T01 Harness-Adaptor to support both engines? I have two new Axiom 12s on my 2008 47 Sedan Bridge and would like to integrate the engine data from both Cummins QSCs into the MFDs. I have (2) separate 6 port junction boxes. I already installed two (5) port SeaTalkNG backbone as well as a (5) port SeaTalkHS Network Switch and have the VHF, Radar, FLIR Camera, GPS, Fish-finder and Fusion networked to the Axioms. My last project is to get the engine data integrated with the Axioms.


View attachment 64302
@Keith Zibilich - That is interesting that you have two separate junction boxes - one for each engine. Both the Port and Starboard Engine on mine seemed to feed into the single 4 Port Smartcraft Junction on my boat. I only had to swap it out for the larger 6 Port Junction to open up an additional port in which to plug the NMEA 2000 converter. I might use the extra port I still have available to buy the Mercury Smartphone gateway that I have heard of other members talk about.
 
@Keith Zibilich - That is interesting that you have two separate junction boxes - one for each engine. Both the Port and Starboard Engine on mine seemed to feed into the single 4 Port Smartcraft Junction on my boat. I only had to swap it out for the larger 6 Port Junction to open up an additional port in which to plug the NMEA 2000 converter. I might use the extra port I still have available to buy the Mercury Smartphone gateway that I have heard of other members talk about.

A follow up to my previous post. I spoke to Mercury and they informed me that the (2) junction boxes are networked together so, I ordered one Mercury gateway and installed this past weekend. Worked like a champ with one exception. Seems like the Mercury Gateway is not strictly following NMEA protocol and there is some confusion around the fuel tank assignment. The work-around was to setup (3) fuel tanks and now I can see the port and starboard fuel readings. Love having all the engine data on the two Axion 12s.
 

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UPDATE on NMEA2000 gateway Install

This weekend I was able to install the Mercury NMEA 2000 gateway:

1) View attachment 61634 View attachment 61633 - I swapped out the old 4 port Mercury SmartCraft Gateway with a 6 port one I purchased on eBay. It worked perfectly. Since the new one is longer, I had to drill a second screw hole to hold it in place. I have the old 4 port one for sale if anybody wants to DM me.

2) View attachment 61635 - I connected in the gateway (note this pic is pre zip tie and screw in). One half plugs into the above SmartCraft Gateway and the other half plugs into the SeaTalkNG backbone (via the A06045 Raymarine NMEA 2000 to SeaTalkNG converter cable). Both sides immediately lit up meaning there was connectivity to both the CanBus as well as the NMEA2000 network.

3) View attachment 61636 - The Raymarine MFD also detected the gateway and listed it as "Gateway CAN-P Multi".

The Raymarine Lighthouse instructions say to run the "Engine Identification Wizard". This didn't work for me (it said no engine detected), but none the less when I created the data page it displayed my RPMs etc just fine. I did have to lay with it a bit to get it to display my fuel level in each tank. It detected the Port fuel tank just fine as "Tank 1", but then when I went to add in the Starboard fuel tank it showed no data. It turned out that my Starboard fuel tank was being reported by the Mercury gateway as "Tank 3", so I had to pretend in the setup that I had 3 fuel tanks. I need to spend more time setting up all my data pages - that will be a chore for another weekend!

Hynespa, did you ever get your Raymarine Lighthouse engine wizard to work? I have the same issue with detecting my fuel tanks. Starboard is tank 1 and Port is tank 3. Also, do you receive the engine alarms on your Axiom displays?
 
@Keith Zibilich - here is the authoritative answer from Chuck the moderator of the Raymarine forum:

http://forum.raymarine.com/showthread.php?tid=6864
This is exactly why in these common data network (NMEA 2000) days, Raymarine is not desirable; their products continue to interface with unique connectors, operation is specific / limited to their own products, and each new generation requires some quagmire to adapt legacy. Garmin, Furuno, SimRad, and Maretron get it.....
Tom
 

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