Radar Not Picking Up All Targets

[Alex F]

I have Raymarine Pathfinder 2D 18" 2KW Radome Scanner on my 320DA. The unit appears to be in working order, but there are times when it's not picking up an approaching boat, and I don't mean kayak, I'm talking about a large cruisers (over 35').

I was reviewing the manual and went through most setup options. I'm new to the radars, but based on my understanding all settings looked ok and main items like GAIN and TUNE are set to AUTO.

While I was tooling with the radar at my dock a few boats were passing by but the radar didn't pick them up regardless of the range I set.

I know that it'll take some time to get full understanding of all of the features, but could you guys give me few tips on how to adjust mine so it wont miss the targets, unless it's just unit's limitation.

Thanks,
Alex.

 

[In Two Deep]

Radar really doesn't work very well at the dock assuming you are in a somewhat confined area and there are a lot of 'targets' reflecting back at you. Everything tends to clutter together and you will get a lot of ghosting. I recommend going out on the "open" water and see if you still experience the same results.

 

[Alex F]

What triggered my troubleshooting is that when I was in the wide open ocean on my 60 miles trip the radar didn't pick up 40'+ cruiser approaching head on. My range was 1/4nm. As I got closer it didn't make difference. However, short while later I was passing a bouy and the radar picked it up just fine. I don't understand what makes the scannar fail to get reflection from the large cruiser. As I was passing few other boats, the radar picked most of them. I later changed range to 1/2nm, but it doesn't make much difference on a given issue.

 

[In Two Deep]

I might suggest extending the range considerably in open water 1/4 nm is what I usually use in harbours. What display are you using?

 

[promocop]

what is the "clutter" setting on?:smt038

 

[topgun1185]

Raymarine will tell you to leave the setting all on auto. The new radars are intended for that setting. To optimize perforamnce range setting is critical also sensativity. An setting i belive called "harbour or port" and "sea" is avaiable.(see operators manuel) This setting is intended for eliminating or increasing sensativity or refelection of the echo. No matter unless something is broke "auto" is the way to go.

 

[promocop]

true...sort of. If your unit is having trouble 'seeing' things that your eyes see, but radar doesn't see then adjust accordingly. Thats why they gave you the ability to adjust MANUALLY from auto.!

 

[tmhudson2]

Keep in mind that wood and fiberglass are poor reflectors of the microwave energy from a radar transmitter, while metal (both steel and aluminum) is highly reflective. Therefore a relatively small steel buoy may be more visible to your radar unit than a large cruiser operating at a speed that has its largest mass of metal (engine and transmission) below the wavetops and not reflecting your radar signal. For this reason, many bluewater boaters fly a metal radar reflector to make them more visible to another vessel's radar. Radar is not a substitute for keeping a good lookout.

 

[Presentation]

I congratulate you on your personal commitment to learn how to properly use this important collision avoidance tool. The life you may someday save is worth your effort.

Please read my and my wife’s post on our experience with learning how to use Radar.
http://presentationrentals.blogspot.com/2007/08/marine-radar-beginners-perspective.html

So why does that buoy appear on your screen when that large cruiser coming straight at you did not? Several reasons. Buoys are often made of material that act as an excellent radar reflector. If that large cruiser coming straight at you was of a modern sleek design such that no surfaces were vertical, very few of the radar’s arrays electrons will be reflected back to the array. This means the target is a poor reflector of radar. If your unit is set to auto adjust the STC and relatively low gain may make the sleek oncoming cruiser not appear on the screen.

My guess is your auto adjusts settings of STC, gain or an object in front of the array are making that oncoming large boat invisible.

Let’s back up and go one step at a time.

First, I do not like the way some radar’s are installed. I think Gary will back me up on this as he had issues with Sea Ray installing electronics directly in front of his Radar. Do you have anything in front of the Radar like the mast head light? It’s a problem since you need to have that white light high so it’s visible to other boaters at night. On my boat I put the white navigational / combination anchor light off to one side and not directly in front of the radar. The only thing in front to the radar on our boat is air.

Even with the metal bar supporting the light off to the side I will get small echo images on the screen. These echo’s are most apparent when the object is very large and solid like a shore line as I am running parallel to shore and the range of the radar is well overlapping the outermost edge of the image on the screen. Over time I’ve become experienced to recognize the real images from the echoes.

Second, have you gone thru all the initial set up settings? Heading, timing, tuning all adjusted per the owner’s manual?

Third, as you are learning I would recommend you only have tuning set to auto. Keep STC (Sea Clutter) and RTC (Rain Clutter) and Gain all set to manual.

On a calm clear day get out in the open, a good mile or more from shore. Set the range to .5 miles or .75 miles. Get in an area where you have boat traffic so you can practice. Adjust STC and RTC all the way down.

My preference is to keep the range rings on, heading on heads-up and trails off.

Now little by little, just one click at a time, adjust your gain until you see some small speckles on the screen. This should take some time to get just right. When fine tuning I only adjust the radar one click then wait for a full rotation of the radar until I decide if I want to go one more click or one less. These speckles look like snow or small dots on the screen.

Once you have it set as above, do some practice. Everything should be visible from a big cruiser to a small john boat to a buoy.

Over time I’ve gotten to the point where I can adjust the radar’s gain very fast and on the fly.

Just a bit of information, each time you change the range, say from .5 miles to .75 miles you need to readjust the gain.

Although having the unit’s auto adjust setting on will allow you to get up to speed faster, similar to driving a car with a automatic transmission versus a manual stick shift, I have found that I can adjust the radar far better then the unit can in the auto adjust settings. The benefit of going manual is the ability to see all objects. I’d rather see some minor speckles on the screen then miss a actual vessel that is a poor reflector of radar.

Oh, one more thing. If you go dock to dock and get in detailed discussions with recreational boaters whose boats have radar you may find in your area what I found in my area. Few recreational boaters whose boats have radar know how to use them with a reasonable level of proficiency to the point where they become a aid to collision avoidance. I encourage you to continue your effort to become a boater who utilizes this tool to enhance safety onboard your vessel.

Please keep up your practice, make sure the area in front of your radar is clear, keep those auto-adjust settings off (except tuning) and use the Radar during times of clear visibility to gain experience so you understand what’s on the screen when you need to depend on the radar during times of reduced visibility.

I hope this helps you understand your frustrations are shared by other recreational boaters that have made the personal commitment to learn how to use their radar. Please keep the commitment and give us a update on your progress.

 

[topgun1185]

Yes I fully agree but tuning in manuel requires comlex understanding of radar theory and pratical use of taget tuning for each situation. After all this is done you must remeber to reset the settings for the next time. I had numerous hours of radar training from factory raymarine and there recommendation is "auto" all the time and only recommed sea clutter, range, port/sea settings to be fine tuned. But that's finnally up to user

 

[Presentation]

....I had numerous hours of radar training from factory raymarine....

Hi Mimi,

After reading the original post I recognized the frustration the person is experiencing because I had these same frustrations.

It sounds like you had the benefit of trained manufacturer representatives and that’s great for you. Glad to hear your way worked for you.

I am ‘self-taught’ and I posted how I did it. I personally found that by performing the basics as stated above this gave me experience during clear calm days where I could verify what I was seeing on the screen with my eyes. Once I became familiar with the basics I was able to progress.

Today I am happy to have radar and am confident that it adds to our safety to avoid collisions during times of reduced visibility, night, rain, fog, windy conditions in close quarters or when miles from shore. I do not use Radar for navigation nor fishing.

 

[topgun1185]

radar is a great safty item and i agree with you that to really get it is to use it, it's best if you can use it all the time. Especiccally like you mentioned to "interprete" the images on the sreen with the targets you can see. this is really how I learned.

 

[Alex F]

I might suggest extending the range considerably in open water 1/4 nm is what I usually use in harbours. What display are you using?

I did extend the range later on, but I don't feel any difference. Some targets still aren't getting picked up. I'm using Raymarine C70 display.

 

[Alex F]

Keep in mind that wood and fiberglass are poor reflectors of the microwave energy from a radar transmitter, while metal (both steel and aluminum) is highly reflective. Therefore a relatively small steel buoy may be more visible to your radar unit than a large cruiser operating at a speed that has its largest mass of metal (engine and transmission) below the wavetops and not reflecting your radar signal. For this reason, many bluewater boaters fly a metal radar reflector to make them more visible to another vessel's radar. Radar is not a substitute for keeping a good lookout.

I totally agree with you. But, my puzzle is that if there's 3 boats similar sizes and shapes, and my radar picks up only two, what's different about the one boat that's missing?

 

[Alex F]

Presentation,
Thanks for detailed response. I'll be back on the boat in few days and will try to go through the settings again.

 

[Alex F]

Today I am happy to have radar and am confident that it adds to our safety to avoid collisions during times of reduced visibility, night, rain, fog, windy conditions in close quarters or when miles from shore. I do not use Radar for navigation nor fishing.

This was exactly the reasons why I wanted the new boat to have the radar. Now I just have to take more time to lear how to use it. Although, I have a good understanding on general, it's the unusual situations that makes things a bit confusing.

 

[promocop]

I'm buying a FLIR unit, radar is 60 years old and tired technology.

 

[Alex F]

what is the "clutter" setting on?:smt038

Jim, I don't see this option in the manual and don't recall seeing it being set when I was reviewing the settings. Can you tell me how to get to it?

Thx,
Alex.

 

[In Two Deep]

I can't tell by the picture of your boat, but is the radome tilted forward while the boat is at rest? The radome needs to be level while the boat is underway for optimum performance, so on most boats, it should have a slight tilt down towards the bow. There are spacers available that will help you to position the radome properly if it is not already set correctly.

This is a good question. It is hard to tell from your pciture how the radar dome is mounted. There are mounting brackets that position the radar dome for maximum efficiency. I have one on my boat that the previous owner had installed. It may be worth consulting with a Raymarine installation professional to evaluate and calibrate your system. The 1/4 nm range is the most critical for collision avoidance.

 

[Walz]

I have been enjoying the discussion about the angle that the radome should be mounted. On my boat it is level while docked. I have noticed that all of the fishing boats (center consoles, T-tops) in the marina have their radome level also. I too was under the impression that it should be slightly tilted to be level on plane. However, if it is tilted, how will this effect coverage while off plane and at close range as may happen when running in fog or rain when radar will be most needed? Assuming the beam angle follows the inverse square law, the bean should spread out enough while on plane to see targets at longer distances without the tilt.

I only have the user manual and not the installation instructions for my radar so I don't know how Raymarine suggests it be mounted.